History / German POWs after WW2 - did the allies commit mass murder? [228]


Skillfully?
How much skill does a pilot need to engage a machine gun while flying over frightened civilians on a country road?


Best, but limited angle of vision, and their own reputation at stake.


And that's exactly how I started posting here. I responded to an ideologized generalization about Luftwaffe and Wehrmacht by offering another angle.


Not my view.

This is my view:

Germans during WW2 = bad
Allies = did to Germans during WW2 anything to speed up the collapse of German paranoia.

History / German POWs after WW2 - did the allies commit mass murder? [228]


They didn't.
German civilians were collateral damage. All German males who had pubic hair were considered fighting force.


Both were important centers supporting German war machine - factories and such. Both were inhabited by Ubermensch who decided that the best way to go out of the economic crisis is to blame the Jew and take over Poland for some cozy Lebensraum.

oopsie, it didn't work.


I'll try to read the book someday. Gotta finish a shed in the backyard first.
Again, biographies are about small groups of people, and often through the prism of their eyes. I don;t know the book, so I cannot speak about it. Still, Luftwaffe is responsible by so much civilian damage that it will be hard for you to convice us that Luftwaffe consisted of only honorable. Some yes. A few, I'd say, untill I get hold of the book,


BBoy, I am not talking about their skill. Many were good and I read accounts of how some of the best shot down by Polish pilots.

Anyway, I am talking about their moral side, or rather the deficiency of morals, not about skill


of how many pilots in total?

History / German POWs after WW2 - did the allies commit mass murder? [228]


The Brits responded to attacks by Germans. German bombing of civilian targets in UK. In WW2 British soldiers were not given the directive to kill without mercy every man, woman and child of Polish extraction.


Sorry for unclear post. What I meant was, if you attack someone and get beat up then you have only yourself to blame for your wounds.


The people are known for some glaring issues with arithmetic :)


So Wehrmacht consisted of Toland? Who else?
Of course there were biographies about individual soldiers. There were Polish soldiers who kicked ass during WW2 and beat Germans, and biographies were written about them. Poland still lost.

There were decent Luftwaffe pilots. Loftwaffe still sucked.

History / German POWs after WW2 - did the allies commit mass murder? [228]


A grim foretaste of the systematic bombing of cities during World War II came in April 1937 when a combined force of German and Italian bombers under Spanish-Nationalist command destroyed most of the Basque city of Guernica in north-east Spain. This bombing received worldwide condemnation, and the collective memory of the horror of the bombing of civilians has ever since become most acute via the famous painting, named after the town, by the Cubist artist Pablo Picasso.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftwaffe#Interwar_period


I am not implying anything. I am simply showing I have a hard time with agreeing that Luftwaffe had a good reputation. Individual pilots? I'm sure there were honorable ones. The whole Luuftwaffe? Well, their job was to destroy, not to be honorable. And destroy they did. Indiscriminately.


I already said it would be hard to count them, didn't I?


I lost me.
Care to elaborate?


Yes, it does. That's why I agree that not all Wehrmacht soldiers were criminals.

Another story though, again from my gramma. She was taking care of a German soldier, young kid, 19 years old, mortally wounded by Polish partisans in the local forest. Her husband was killed, possibly by the German kids detachment just two days before. When she told me the story she almost looked for a justification as if I were to judge her. She said something to the effect: if I take care of this kid then perhaps God will make my three children come back home one day. Two of her sons were slave laborers in German, one daughter, aged 12, a prisoner in Auschwitz.

Love / Polish girls and this age thing? [173]


I don't see anything weird about it. In general Women develop faster than men, in most aspects - mentally, socially intellectually. Men eventually catch up but the wait is too long so women do what they feel they should do.

So for a woman to find a peer - someone on the same intellectual, psychological level - more often than not, she will need to look for a man older than herself. Otherwise she ends up with a boy.

UK, Ireland / General Maczek's Great Map of Scotland [7]


Sadly, all Poles fighting with the British, and many for the British people, were simply dumped when it came to celebrate the final victory and the end of WW2.

History / German POWs after WW2 - did the allies commit mass murder? [228]


Actually, Luftwaffe had a terrible reputation even before WW2. Ever heard about Guernica? And that was just practice for them.

Sept 1 1939 - The Luftwaffe begun the invasion by bombing the undefended civilian town of Wieluń.

From the start, the Luftwaffe attacked civilian targets and columns of refugees along the roads to wreak havoc, disrupt communications and target Polish morale.

If that's honorable then Saddam was a man of honor too.

Wehrmacht was not much better. German soldiers were expected to murder Poles - men, women and children, and they did. For every German soldier killed Wehrmacht would round up randomly 100 Polish civilians (men women and children) and execute as soon as the victims were packed onto a truck and transported to a nearby forest or extermination camp. Finding and fighting the partisans instead would have been honorable. Murder of defenseless civilians is not what I'd call honorable. It's murder. Plain and simple.

I don't think it is possible to find out what percentage of Germans during WW2 were war criminals, but I find it hard to believe that it was just 1% or less.

Having said that, gramma told me a story of a German formation that stayed briefly on her farm. One of the krauts was really nasty so gramma went to a German officer and complained. The officer came over to the farm. Beat the living sshit out of the culprit (broken nose and such) and that was the end of the story.

And finally, to address the subject of this thread:


This is a funny question when you consider who started the war and what their goal was. As someone has suggested here before, if you attack someone and you end up with a broken nose, don't complain. You shouldn't have attacked in the first place.

Real Estate / BUYING A HOUSE IN POLAND.. and having the seller strip it bare.. [12]


I'm not sure how real estate law works in Poland now. I only have an experience with a studio apartment which was empty before even before viewing.

When I was buying a house in Canada my agent told me that the basic principle (give or take) is that if something is attached to the walls, floors or ceilings, and if it cannot be removed without tools such as a screwdriver, then it is a part of the house and stays put. Exceptions have to be clearly described in the contract. In my case, the previous owners had a TV set attached to a wall. I had to agree for them to take it with them.

The agent told me a story of a fella who sold a house with a rec room in the basement of the house. After the sale agreement has been signed, the seller removed interior walls, ceiling and floor coverings and turned the basement pretty much into bare concrete walls and floors.

News / Candidate of "Hope and Change," Breaks Promise, Leaves Poland Defenseless [47]

God save Poland from European military aid. Or, apparently, American, for that matter.

History / Should we use original name of Berlin - "Kopanica" [103]


Let's see what happens, but I usually reserve weekends for my family and other hobbies. Sooner or later I'll be around though.

History / Should we use original name of Berlin - "Kopanica" [103]


I would disagree. So did millions of Polish peasants and incidentally, many historians still disagree. Polish nobility during partitions fvcked up big time.

History / Sarmatia Europe - Could it be political reality? [183]


Are you sure?
Lemme think if we can change that ;)

History / Sarmatia Europe - Could it be political reality? [183]


I was typing when you made that post.


crooks will have learned more too.

History / Sarmatia Europe - Could it be political reality? [183]


I have a feeling you don't understand the term "direct democracy". None of the countries you named have direct democracy. They are all electoral (aka representative) democracies.


As easy as rigging the results. I have been working with computers for years. Too many security holes .

History / Sarmatia Europe - Could it be political reality? [183]


Where?

History / Sarmatia Europe - Could it be political reality? [183]


Tricky.
Who decides what is enough knowledge? Heck, what is enough knowledge?

As for the direct democracy, it's been kinda tried and failed miserably. Europe's first constitution lead its country to internal deterioration, weakness, complete mess, demoralization and eventually the the loss of independence.

Referenda simply take too much time and cost too much money. IMO they're OK on occasion but not as a regular, day to day form of government.

Not a solution, but what I think might help a lot though would be politicians' and public employees' accountability. If you wage war and it turns out you acted on false premises you're fried (whatever fried might mean). If you're a govt. employee responsible for contracts, job estimates and such you are screwed (from behind) as many times as the number of dollars you were mistaken by, stole or defrauded. If you don't refill the automatic coffee maker's water container at work then you are executed on the spot and without trial.

History / Should we use original name of Berlin - "Kopanica" [103]


Breslau is not the original name. Neither is Wroclaw.

History / Should we use original name of Berlin - "Kopanica" [103]


Poles are not always followers of rules and regulations. My savoir-vivre failed me here.


Nope. I decided to take this vicious revenge instead ;)

History / Should we use original name of Berlin - "Kopanica" [103]


Of course it is true, but that's not what makes it strong or weak. How you try to compare the murders of Poles to wars Germans often chose to wage is what makes it weak.


You didn't.


I did. It was about some historical factors, genius.

History / Should we use original name of Berlin - "Kopanica" [103]


and so your argument about how Germans suffered and yet pulled through suddenly became weak. I am unaware of any attempts of systematic extermination of the entire German nation, nor about any actions by foreigners to exterminate German intellectual elites, or about denying, under a threat of death, German children education that would go above rudimentary skill.

History / Should we use original name of Berlin - "Kopanica" [103]


Poland survived 1000 years of wars with Germans, Russians, Swedes and a variety of Asians. It also survived over 100 years of occupation by Germans and Russians. Most European countries had a significant brain drain too. Some of Polish drain brain was a pretty peculiar one though and this is just one of many examples.

History / Should we use original name of Berlin - "Kopanica" [103]


This is a tricky situation. The problem is that Germany also did a "job" in Poland. They used explosives.

But a lot has been rebuilt though. For instance what Germans turned into 90% of rubble is now again a vibrant city of Warsaw.

History / Should we use original name of Berlin - "Kopanica" [103]


No, we shouldn't, because this would be like asking if we should rename Krakow to Kielce.

Kopanica and Berlin were two different localities. The first name for Berlin on record is Berolina, established by Slavic tribes.

Language / Survival Polish (must learn Polish) [14]


Ratunku does.
Pomocy is also good for emergencies.

Life / What do people think of Italian Products? [37]

My purchases of Made in Italy products don't require such lavish budgets.

These go through hardwood like hot knife through butter, especially ones with thin kerf:



Italians make good router bits too:

Love / Moved to Poland to my younger boyfriend, now got sick; he's got a new one [194]


There is no such thing as over reacting in these matters. The man is obviously unstable emotionally and he uttered a warning physical threat. It's their the cops or a bunch of .... ahem... good fellas to take care of the pyscho.

Life / Who drinks more: Poles or Russians? [50]


a buddy of mine from a university in Poland zipped through 500 mL of 96% (192 proof) spirit. He needed no medical help and lived to get into the same major 3 more times (they kicked him out every year so he reapplied and passed the entrance exams 4 times)

I know Scots and Irish can hold the ground no less than Poles or Russians.

Life / Who drinks more: Poles or Russians? [50]

Depends on how they drink.
Using regular glasses (200 mL or more) Russians tend win.
Using small shot glasses (50 mL or less) Poles tend to win.

Love / Moved to Poland to my younger boyfriend, now got sick; he's got a new one [194]


I am Polish and I never heard that Polish culture required men to be cowards, liars and cheats.

I feel for you and I wish you all the best, but I don't think you should keep on investing your feelings (and money) in a fraud that he is.

Life / Do we have TV in Poland? [38]


Michal, are you expecting the same kind of knowledge from a supposedly educated, Brit as you do from people in Africa where, in some countries, they have to make a daily choice - shoes for a kid to walk to school or a meal for the family?