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Sarmatia Europe - Could it be political reality?


Crow 146 | 9,106  
2 Nov 2008 /  #1
let us investigate this question, already mentioned in context of many other threads. Seams to me it could be interesting

i have been reading a book, written and published in English called `Europe and the Czechs`.

The main reason I bought it was because it was published in 1938 - pre war before Czechoslovakia lost its territory and then 1939 was made a puppet state in Nazi Germany.

The book deals with the geography, history, politics and other issues and is a small biography of the Czech people, land and political situation at the time.

Now, to my point. Most of the book you may say is not really that interesting, only if you find the Czech land and people/politics interesting themselves, but I came to a page which lists the demands of the Czecho-Slovaks which they put to the allies at the end of the first world war at a time preciding to creation of the Czechoslovak state:

[citation]

1. The three historic lands of the Bohemian Crown, Bohemia, Moravia and Silesia.
2. The maintenance of thier former frontiers with slight changes to the advantage of Czechoslovakia.
3. The incorporation of Slovakia.
4. The incorporation of Sub-Carpathian Ruthenia.
5. The creation of a corridor connecting Czechoslovakia to Yugoslavia
6. The internationalisn of certain rivers.
7. Protection for Czec minority in Vienna.
8. Assistance for the Slav minority in Germany (Wends)

I was very happy to read that the Czechoslovaks at the time wanted to have a direct link with Yugoslavia and indeed wanted to assist the Slavs namely Wends or Sorbs (they call themselves -Serbs) of Germany. I would also underline that Kingdom of Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia had established secret military alliances before WWII.

The European powers obviously didn`t agree to demands 5 and 8 but at least the Czechoslovaks had the feeling and agenda to try and have some kind of Pan-Slavic unity with western and southern Slavs. Already they had joined Czechs, Slovaks, Ruthenians and a Polish minority together and wanted to do more. It was walk on the old path of Great Moravia and before that Sarmatia, particulary - Sarmatia Europae.

Then, these days i had an opportunity to read one article on the Net, which seams more and more interesting to me. It would be valuable for disscusion here.

POLSKA PANORAMA

Plight of Central European Nations in the Wake of Western Oder Demise
Ignacy Nowopolski

polskapanorama.org/plightofeuropean.html

In such instance, there is going to be a necessity to stabilize and secure the region. This may be accomplished by some form of cooperation between Central European nations.

In order to survive, these nations must overcome mutual animosities, which currently enable their enemies from the west, east, and south to successfully employ ancient divide et impera strategy.

The answer is in the creation of some sort of “Centroslavia”. Failure to achieve this will not only put at risk their “magnificent” future in EU, but the very basic survival.

Del boy 20 | 254  
2 Nov 2008 /  #2
Crow, your next lecture should be
Titus Komarnicki Rebirth of the Polish Republic.Study in the Diplomatic History of Europe 1914 - 1920. London 1957, Heinemann Ltd.
Try get it on ebay. Ive got one already, great stuff.
southern 75 | 7,096  
2 Nov 2008 /  #3
Sarmatia Europe - Could it be political reality?

No,because it is against interests of the West.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
2 Nov 2008 /  #4
It is not really an idea that is in many people's minds. Building bridges should go further than just with those who speak a similar language who also happen to have some historical similarities. Why not reach out further? For example, I'd like to teach the world to sing... in perfect harmo-nee.
southern 75 | 7,096  
2 Nov 2008 /  #5
The Czechs will accept this because the Czechs go where the wind blows.
The Slovaks will be the militant elements inside and the Serbs the concrete which can stick the Slavs together.
The Poles will not join because in this way they become more vulnerable to Russians(as they think) and they try to avoid that.Belarus and Ukraine can join from opportunistic reasons.

Generally in my opinion the whole panslavic issue grew on the ground of Austrohungary style of administration as a reaction to this style and an orientation of slavic folks inside Austrohungary to a slavic unity instead of a german ruled unity of free will or not free will Slavs.However the concept was quite weak and did not get a solid form,serving more as inspiration to sovereignity movements.
OP Crow 146 | 9,106  
2 Nov 2008 /  #6
Why not reach out further? For example, I'd like to teach the world to sing... in perfect harmo-nee.

human life seams too short to achieve such a great ideals. Also, on that path one always must be ready to sacrafice many of his own and in the same time can`t be sure what would get in return. It is sane to go step by step and first to consolidate your own civilization, learn about itself expiriancing full freedom and independance
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
2 Nov 2008 /  #7
I think Osioł was referring to a specific song here Crow, I think u went in too deep. I can't remember the song by artist but I know the one
osiol 55 | 3,922  
2 Nov 2008 /  #8
It is sane to go step by step

I agree. I'd say though, that the step you wish to take is beyond reach in the sense that it leaves many people out of the equation who also would like to see some kind of unity across Europe. I'm not specifically talking about the EU here either.

can't remember the song by artist but I know the one

It's pretty awful. Brotherhood of Man?
OP Crow 146 | 9,106  
3 Nov 2008 /  #9
i think that this can work (map, just as example, a working version)...

modern day political realm of Sarmatia Europae doesn`t include exclusively that what we call Slavic countries. It is more then that but, yes- Sarmatia Europae should be based on Slavic heritage, as balance to that what is EU, which is based on Greak, Roman, Jewish and Germanic traditions. Simplisticaly speaking, just to give you picture, in ``Sarmatia Europae`` Slavic languages (or for example something as Slavic `esperanto` - Slovio) should be that what is English in EU or USA, Australia, Canada.

Slovio

mniglot.com/writing/slovio.htm

Slovio is a simplified Slavonic language devised by Mark Hucko intended as an international auxiliary language comprehensible to speakers of all Slavonic languages, who number about 400 million.

Slovio alphabet & pronunciation - combination fo Latin and Cirilic letters

Titus Komarnicki Rebirth of the Polish Republic.Study in the Diplomatic History of Europe 1914 - 1920. London 1957, Heinemann Ltd.

Thanks for suggestion, i`ll try to found it

speaking about historical background of Sarmatia Europae (latin term)...

Roxolans

nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Roxolans

New DNA data show that Sarmatians are ancestors of Slavs, were never destroyed, are most dominant ethnic group in Europe. Sarmatia Europea in Scythia map 1697 AD Sarmatia Europae separated from Sarmatia Asiatica by the Tanais (the River Don), based on Greek literary sources, in a map printed in London, ca 1770 Great steppe in early spring.

Sarmatia Europae - in map of Scythia, 1697

sarmatia

"Sarmatia Europae" separated from "Sarmatia Asiatica" by the Tanais (the River Don), based on Greek literary sources, in a map printed in London, ca 1770

THE SCYTHIANS, SARMATIANS, MEOTIANS, RUSSIANS AND CIRCASSIANS: INTERPRETATION OF THE ANCIENT CULTURES
by Sergei V. Rjabchikov

public.kubsu.ru/~usr02898/sl2.htm

...the Scythian (Sarmatian) language is the Proto-Slavonic one. Other Proto-Slavonic dialects are the languages of the Pelasges (the writing of Linear A, and its decorative version on the Phaistos disk) and of the Etruscans (Rjabchikov 1998a).

Countries with majority Slavic ethnicities and at least one Slavic national language

Slavia
Daisy 3 | 1,227  
3 Nov 2008 /  #10
maps...charts....wolves....when did £ukasz take over Crow?
time means 5 | 1,310  
3 Nov 2008 /  #11
i have been reading a book, written and published in English called `Europe and the Czechs`.

do they not have pubs out your way? :-)
OP Crow 146 | 9,106  
3 Nov 2008 /  #12
maps...charts....wolves....

no charts, only maps and wolves ;)

when did £ukasz take over Crow?

BDW, where is Luk? he is still on forum?

do they not have pubs out your way? :-)

isn`t it obvious :)
time means 5 | 1,310  
3 Nov 2008 /  #13
isn`t it obvious :)

:-))) we can have a pint or two and discuss this. much better than reading alone.
Daisy 3 | 1,227  
3 Nov 2008 /  #14
BDW, where is Luk? he is still on forum?

he said his goodbyes the same as you did

I'm sure you know where he's gone ;) is he posting on that other forum you belong to?
OP Crow 146 | 9,106  
3 Nov 2008 /  #15
he said his goodbyes the same as you did

heh

I'm sure you know where he's gone ;) is he posting on that other forum you belong to?

i didn`t know about it but, now i know. Anyway, he would found that i`m again here and he would eventualy come again to take part in party ;)




Hey Luk- son of Poland, wherever you may be on the Net, i salute you. God bless you man

Slavija Majka! Slavija Besmrtna!
southern 75 | 7,096  
3 Nov 2008 /  #16
THE SCYTHIANS

I strongly believe that the Scythians were ancestors of Slavs.The descriptions of their appearance and customs by ancient Greeks are very close to the appearance and customs of today's Slavs.Scythians lived in the area over the Danube river and nobody managed to conquer their land.(Persian army risked total extermination and Dareus was saved at last moment by throwing away his King's clothes and riding a horse to reach Danube bridges fast after abandoning his camp and remnants of his army to Scythians who destroyed the Danube bridges in no time).

I also think that today's Serbs are a mix of Illyrians and Scythians-Protoslavs and that Bulgarians are a mix of Thracians-Scythians-Mongols while the Shriptars or Albos are not descendant of ancient Illyrians but came to the today's region of Albania 1000 years ago coming from Caucasus.(a complicated story).That's why albanian language has almost no illyric words at all while it resembles a lot to the languages spoken in Caucasus by Ingushetians,Chcechens etc in Dagestan,Ingushetia,Chcechnya.This is the area where today's Albanians came from.(it is the serbian theory with which I agree).
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
3 Nov 2008 /  #17
Could it be political reality?

No.

Crow, has the KLA & the NATO move into Kosovo hurt the Serbs as far as the heroin trade goes?...Do Albanians control it all now, or do Serbs still have a piece?
OP Crow 146 | 9,106  
3 Nov 2008 /  #19
Crow, has the KLA & the NATO move into Kosovo hurt the Serbs as far as the heroin trade goes?...Do Albanians control it all now, or do Serbs still have a piece?

so what?

yes, they control it but, exactly such a developement helping that things in case with idea of `Sarmatia Europae` (let`s use this term) becoming reality and that more and more people realize that EU isn`t solution. Not that EU isn`t solution but EU must be recognized as part of problem and should be replaced with something what promissing better and sustain future for Slavs and those who see itself in close relations with Slavs.

EU is German tool and let it just continue to serve Germany. There is available alternative for Slavs.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
3 Nov 2008 /  #20
Gimme some time. I'm just going to do some colouring in with a map I just found...
southern 75 | 7,096  
3 Nov 2008 /  #21
Crow, has the KLA & the NATO move into Kosovo hurt the Serbs as far as the heroin trade goes?...Do Albanians control it all now, or do Serbs still have a piece?

The heroin trade was always in the hands of albanian mafia.In fact it is one of the main contributors to income of Kosovars.Heavy trade takes also place in the albanian harbours from where the stuff is transported to Italy and Western Europe.A proud narco-state no.2 blessed.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
3 Nov 2008 /  #22
so what?

yes, they control it (currently!) but, exactly such a developement helping that things in case with idea of `Sarmatia Europae` (let`s use this term) becoming reality and that more and more people realize that EU isn`t solution. Not that EU isn`t solution but EU must be recognized as part of problem and should be replaced with something what promissing better and sustain future for Slavs and those who see itself in close relations with Slavs.

EU is German tool and let it just continue to serve Germany. There is available alternative for Slavs.

OK, so maybe in the "Sarmation Union' (SU), Serbs will run heroin, Poles mnufacture and distribute meth...OK...Now, what will be the government of the SU?...Will it be a 'Parliamentary Democracy', a monarchy, will it be ruled by a 'strong man'...What do you have in mind?
OP Crow 146 | 9,106  
3 Nov 2008 /  #23
OK, so maybe in the "Sarmation Union' (SU), Serbs will run heroin, Poles mnufacture and distribute meth...

be serious. Try to be serious. Guaranteed, no visas for Russians, i`m sure. ;)

OK...Now, what will be the government of the SU?

OK, as you said, now seriously... :)

i suggest confederation of states. How sound - `Sarmatian Confederation`?

Will it be a 'Parliamentary Democracy', a monarchy, will it be ruled by a 'strong man'...What do you have in mind?

I think that 'Parliamentary Democracy' could be all right. 'strong man'? not sure

What you think about 'Parliamentary Monarchy' in this situation?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,424  
3 Nov 2008 /  #24
Which bloodline do you have in mind for the throne?
Daisy 3 | 1,227  
3 Nov 2008 /  #25
No prizes for guessing it won't be you ruling Crow's company of wolves
southern 75 | 7,096  
3 Nov 2008 /  #26
Which bloodline

I hope it will not be an Albo.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,424  
3 Nov 2008 /  #27
No prizes for guessing it won't be you ruling Crow's company of wolves

Heey...Aren't we all just lost slavic brothers....erm...and sisters of course? :)
Daisy 3 | 1,227  
3 Nov 2008 /  #28
I'm sure Crow has an explanation
Piorun - | 658  
3 Nov 2008 /  #29
i think that this can work

This map reminds me of Piłsudski idea of “Międzymorze”.
OP Crow 146 | 9,106  
3 Nov 2008 /  #30
'strong man'

no, definitely not strong man, considering that i suggestiong `confederal` form of organization for state. Highest law should be constitution of confederation

speaking about `Parliamentary Monarchy` that is mentioned...

at first i thought that `Parliamentary Monarchy` can`t work but in confederal realtions maybe even that can work. On the other side i can`t remind myself of some functioning `confederal monarchy` (as if). Is there something like that? Is there historic example?

Which bloodline do you have in mind for the throne?

i didn`t think about bloodline for throne

i personaly could agree with all combinations (Catholic, Protestant or Orthodox dinasty) if `Paliamentary Monarchy` appears to be desired form for state

but on the end, i think that 'Parliamentary Democracy' organized as confedration sound best

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