Language / Correct form of BYĆ. Please help! [96]


so you have common friends with ArcticPaul :)

Language / Correct form of BYĆ. Please help! [96]

NieMota, have you ever read E.Ionosco's Lekcja? If not I recommend it to you wholeheartedly, you and the Professor from that play think alike :)

Feedback / Translation Threads - where did most of them go? [23]


tell me about it, I lost +500 posts in one night, when the language subforums were re-organized :(

Language / Correct form of BYĆ. Please help! [96]


hey, I never said that, the whole paragraph was written by z_darius :)

Language / Correct form of BYĆ. Please help! [96]


vous êtes :)


It can be usuful, for a native speaker of English (you guys do reading of Shakespeare's plays in school, so "thou art" isn't really a problem for anyone, I'd guess), but NieMota is suggesting the opposite, to bombard a non Polish speaker with some useless old Polish knowledge, before he can even conjugate the very basic verbs in the present tense.

Language / Correct form of BYĆ. Please help! [96]


You're a stubborn one, aren't you?

We're discussing here the Polish language for beginners, they have to learn the Present tense first (technically they don't have to, but it's recommened), these archaic forms you're trying to launch into everyday language are completely useless for the present tense (with the exception of the verb "być"), they could be used in the past tense, but it's impossible (or rather incorrect) to say:

jam czyta / myje się
tyś czyta / myje się
myśmy czytają / myją się
wyście czatają / myją się
so there's no way you can spare them the hard work of learning the correct conjugation of a verb in all the six forms (3 sing. + 3 plural) of the present tense.

Language / Correct form of BYĆ. Please help! [96]


But that's how it works in most languages (for example, of course, in English: I am, you are, he/she is) the concept of merging the verb form with the pronoun itself would give a learner another headache (added to problems with some Polish sounds, spelling etc. - remember that anything can be difficult when you're a beginner, so you wanted to help, but my guess is you would confuse the poor guy to the power of three).

Just a personal question - have you ever thaught anybody a foreign language? I did, I thaught German (when I was young), English and French (when I was poor and needed some cash badly) and Italian (no excuses)

Life / current pound zl exchange rate [14]

I checked some of the kantors websites, it seems you could still sell your pounds at 4,20-4,25, but sometimes it's only higher amounts (at least 1,000 pounds) and sometimes a call is needed to confirm if the price is still valid, the online exchange rates aren't binding.

Language / Correct form of BYĆ. Please help! [96]


because old grammar will be useless for them (with a very few exceptions), I don't know how you learned languages, but at my university they always taught us the modern language (a static 'snapshot') first, then we were passing to the ancient stages (learning a dynamic process, "moving pictures", is much more difficult than learnig something caught in time, "motionless").

Language / Correct form of BYĆ. Please help! [96]

OK, your intentions weren't as pure as I thought, my bad :)
There's no point in learning archaic forms for everyday use of a foreign language, period.
The beginners can dream whatever they want (even about mastering the language to a proficiency level far better than most native speakers), it doesn't change the fact that it takes years and certain stages can't be jumped over, they will be beginners for quite some time, weeks, but rather months.

That's like the maths:
first you learn kids to add
2+2+2+2 = 8
the to multiply
2 x 2 x 2 = 8
then
2 ^ 3 = 8.
You can't throw at them 2 ^ 3 = 8 before they comprehend the multiplications.

Life / current pound zl exchange rate [14]

the official rates in Poland can be checked at the central bank's site, NBP (National Bank of Poland):
nbp.pl/Kursy/KursyC.html

today:

funt szterling 1 GBP (buys at) 4,2999 (sells at) 4,3867
the prices in a commercial bank or in a "kantor" (exchange offices) shouldn't be that much different (buys at 4.11-4.25 and sells at 4.25-4.40)

you can check the prices here:
kantory.pl/?id=kursy - "Kantory" exchange rates

(you can click K: and S: to sort the results by the price at which they buy/sell)

Language / Correct form of BYĆ. Please help! [96]

Agreed with z_darius (and miranda) about the overwhelming part (I do it myself too often).

NieMota, I can see your intentions were pure, but, as you explained a little later, these forms aren't an everyday standard, they sound definitely archaic for 90% of today's population, so it's better to avoid them :)

-------------
PS (Attention! not suitable for children and beginners!)
Although when it comes to questions in conditional mode ("Co byś kupił, gdybyśmy dali ci milion na drobne wydatki?") they are still the norm, but it's definitely


or even lessons.

Language / How do you form commands in Polish? [4]


Me neither :(
but quickly anylising some examples given (and other verbs) I tend to assume it's the 3rd person plural (= they) form minus the ending, of course some minor changes between related vowels/consonants appear now and then (like it happens quite often in Polish, in such cases other forms help too), sometimes 3rd person singular is very helpful, especially with those more irregular verbs.

Let's take tczesio's examples:
infinitive - 3rd plural (present tense) - imperative mode:
chodzić - chodzą - chodź (not chodz, but the soft "dź/dzi" appears in other forms as well)
słuchać - słuchają - słuchaj
mówić - mówią - mów
robić - robią - rób (why "ó" not "o", it would require some knowledge of old, medieval Polish, to explain this process, I guess it's nothing a beginner would care about)

jeść - jedzą - jedz

other verbs:
iść - idą - idź ("dź" instead of "d", but it's for example "on idzie" with soft "dzi", so no wonder this "dź" found its way :)

wiedzieć - wiedzą - wiedz
jechać - jadą - jedź (here the 3rd person singular "on jedzie" looks like the direct source of the imperative form, but I guess it's down to some old Polish again, to explain why such a form is used)

If you want to use the imperative form to more then one person, then you add the ending -cie to the basic imperative form. In first person plural you add -my. In the polite form (with Pan/Pani [or plural Państwo]) you use "niech" + pan/pani [or państwo] + 3rd person singular [plural] indicative mode.

John, give me some time. - John, daj mi trochę czasu.
Guys, give me some time. - Dajcie mi trochę czasu.
Let's give him a lesson - Dajmy mu nauczkę.
(Sir,) don't talk to me like this, please. - Niech Pan tak do mnie nie mówi.
Gentlemen, trust me, please. - Niech mi Państwo zaufają. Technically zaufają is future tense, but it's because it's a perfective verb, so it has no present tense, but with a imperfective verb you use the present tense:

Gentlemen, don't lie to me, please. - Niech mnie Państwo nie okłamują.

Language / Correct form of BYĆ. Please help! [96]

misunderstanding?
I assumed that when AP wrote


the "it" was referred to the pronoun "wy", he was just waiting for a confirmation that the pronoun "wy" dictates the form of the verb ("jesteście"). Am I right?

Language / Correct form of BYĆ. Please help! [96]

first of all, it's Michał :)
unless it's on purpose (Michel = a French name)
so I leave it unchanged

then: Michel / Agnieszka is in Poland = He / She is in Poland, so the same in Polish:
Michel [= on] też jest w Polsce.
Agnieszka [= ona] jest w Krakowie.

Michel i Robert [Michel and Robert] = oni [they]
Agnieszka i Robert [Agnieszka and Robert] = oni [they]
so the form of the verb is "są" (oni są)


That's correct.

Life / A Polish version of "Life Is Beautiful" Movie? [7]

Do you mean Begnini's "La vita e' bella" ?

here you go:
Życie jest piękne
merlin.pl/Zycie-jest-piekne_Roberto-Benigni/browse/product/2,466202.html

Price = 12 PLN, shipping costs abroad - about 24 PLN. (1 US dollar = about 2,20 PLN), delivery within 24 hours since your placing an order, but of course the shipping takes time (depending on the method you choose)

They have some basic info in English on that site, at the bottom of the page you'll see links:
How to buy at Merlin
merlin.pl/info/help/howtobuyen.html
and
International shipping
merlin.pl/info/help/delivery_en.html#zagranica

Życie jest piękne
Directed by: Roberto Benigni
Original title: La Vita e Bella
Duration: 01:51:00
Sound: AC3 (5.1): Italian
Aspect ratio: color, 1.85:1
Disc: 1-sided, 1 layer
Region: 2

Distributed by: SPI International Polska
Subtitles: Polish
Extras: scenes acces, other DVDs from Vision (a Polish reseller company), about the movie, profiles, trailer
(as far as I remember, the extras suck, the "about the movie" and "actors/director profiles" are simply a text information, but it's just a basic version, you can't expect much, except the movie itself, for 12 złotych, I could check it, I have the DVD, but it's downstairs and I don't wanna wake up my family, it's 4 a.m. here, so if you insist, I could do it tomorrow, but I'm almost sure, it's just the movie and no interesting extras).

History / Is Poland a Southern or Northern European country? [30]

well, we once had a coast on Black Sea, which is quite southern for me, but we lost those lands :(

Language / Czas Teraźniejszy ( Present Tense) [5]

"to laugh" is reflexive in Polish, so "śmieję się", "śmiejesz się" etc.

USA, Canada / polish people needing visa to visit usa. [8]

I never appplied for an US visa, that's what I heard from a few friends who tried to go there. maybe things are changing for the better now, but several years ago it was really difficult to obtain a visa.

US administration is probably afraid of illegal work force, so they reject thousands of applicants without any reason (they do have their beaurocratic logics assuming everyone from Poland is a potential visa-overstayer or illegal immigrant, so the stronger economical and social ties with Poland she could prove - like university studies, husband and children here, some business in Poland etc. - the greater her chances are to receive a visa, because the consulate/embassy will assume she has a reason to comeback. If she's single with some average work and has a US boyfriend and US-based family, they assume she's going to come see the paridise and stay there, so they eliminate this "threat.)

Food / Polish grochówka recipe? [23]


You are right. My mother (born, raised and always lived in central Poland, Mazowsze) calls both soups "grochówka", she even calls beans "groch", quite often :)

And she knows the difference between groch and fasola, but in her home they usually used one name for both, maybe because groch was common and fasola rare, so the people felt no need to bother with another name (since both vegatables have something in common).

UK, Ireland / Polish doctors fly over just to work in the UK [15]


brazilii, you are quite new to these forums, so a word of advice - don't waste your time on Michal, he's spent over a year here writing stupid, full of hatred (against Poland and Polish people) crap all the time, he won't change :)

News / Why does Poland love the US? [144]


You really should learn your history better. Both russia and germany screwed us again and again many times before Uncle Sam even existed.


And what has we ever gained from Germany's and Russia's hostilities?

Language / How Many of you love the Polish Language? [79]


I liked all languages I ever learnt, although I got bored or annoyed with some after a while, but for me foreign languages are rather maths, not physics (maybe because I loved maths, and I wasn't crazy about physics). They follow some kind of their internal logic, and discovering it is a fascinating process.

Life / Polish Dinner Guest - should I bring vodka or wine? [15]

disagree on cognac or brandy :)
no comments on tornado's and noimmi's jokes

Study / Language course payment in Euro's vs Zloty in Poland... Does it sound like a rip-off? [3]

It's a normal procedure not only in Poland when a price is fixed in one currency with the possibility to pay in other currencies as well. It's done that way for banking and tax reasons.

Even if you have price lists in different currencies there's always the small print stating prices in which currency are fixed and in which currencies are subject to change.

It looks like Euro is simply the basic currency in the case you described, hence any other payments (PLN or USD) are converted on a daily basis (they should use NBP - National Bank of Poland - exchange rates).

And how could it be a rip off, when they are getting less money in Polish zloty from it? (A year ago it would be 3.80-3.90 PLN for 1 Euro, now all they can get is 3.40 PLN)

Language / How Many of you love the Polish Language? [79]


actually it was 100% vulgar and started moving in the direction of non-vulgar only in the recent years because of some youth slang, but I wouldn't use it in most circumstances anyway :)

Travel / Warsaw Public Transit for Newbs [8]

If you're staying for a longer time in Warsaw and you are sure to use more than 10 (or actually 9) daily tickets within a 30 dyas period, it's better for you to buy a monthly pass (bilet miesięczny).

Bilet Dobowy miejski normalny costs 7,20 PLN, while
Bilet Miesięczny miejski normalny costs 66 PLN. It's in a form of card, with a chip, you buy this card once only, pay for a month (not a calender month, just 30/31 days, so buying it on for 16th April means it will be valid till 16th May), and it has to be activated when you first enter a bus/tram/metro/train (those "yellow boxes the size of a toaster" have a hole where you insert your tickets, but also a sensor - for monthly cards, you approach your card to the sensor (not insert in the hole) and you should notice when something happens, the card should be now activated).

The downside of the monthly cards is that they are in the name of the person who buys them (there's a place on it for your ID number, you should write it down after you bought the card and keep with you, always when travelling, the same ID - it can be a passport, driving licence, student's "legitymacja" and so on, simply some official identity document).

After a month (immediately or after a short break, if you're not using public transport for some time), you need to buy another monthly pass, you bring the very same card to a Kiosk and it's re-charged for another 30 days (needs to be activated again by approaching to the sensor in the "yellow boxes the size of a toaster", btw, this device is called "kasownik" in Polish). After a month cleanse and repeat.

Just don't forget to activate it again in a "kasownik" (and keep your ID with you).

There are three types of tickets "miejski" for the city limits, "liniowy" for one bus/tram/metro/train line (not sure, but I think it costs half the price of "miejski") and also a third type (twice as expensive as "miejski") for Warsaw and nearby towns (Milanówek, Pruszków, Ożarów etc.).

Of course when you're using trains (or WKD - special local trains), you may travel only accordingly to your ticket/pass (so with "bilet miejski" you can't go to Milanówek, just to Warszawa Ursus or Gołąbki, or whatever is the name of the last train station within the city limits).

If you're a student at some university (or school) you are probably entitled (I think it applies also to foreign citizens) to a 50% discount ("ulgowy 50%" instead of "normalny"), you need to present your "legitymacja studencka" when buying a ticket/pass (all sorts, monthly, daily, for one ride).

There is also a 90 days pass, working as the described monthly pass, the difference is that they are a little more cost-effective (66 PLN for a monthly pass, 160 PLN for a 90 days pass, still talking about "miejski, normalny" to avoid confusion)

Life / Polish Dinner Guest - should I bring vodka or wine? [15]

It really depends on what they prefer, and what will be served for the supper, but it's hard to decide if you don't know what they drink.

Generally in Poland vodka is a little "safer" especially with older people, because many people still don't drink wine (and some of them even prefer sweet wine), dry wine with the more educated (but many still like vodka), beer is rather more a barbeque thing or watching together a football (soccer) game.

If you bring some good stuff that noone likes, and your hosts have planned to serve other drinks, don't worry, they may use it another time, it's nothing wrong if they don't open it.

Language / Imperative, prefix, reflexive verbs, imperfect form in Polish - 6 questions [14]


Maybe you meant indicative mode (tryb oznajmujący)?
- oznajmujący is simply a statement
I'm reading a fascinating book. - Czytam fascynującą (pasjonującą) książkę.
- pytający is a question
What are you doing? - Co robisz?
- rozkazujący is a command
Don't smoke, please. - Nie pal(cie), proszę. (nie pal if talking to one person, nie palcie - to more persons)
Don't feed the animals! - Nie karmić zwierząt!
(nie + infinitive can also be used as imperative mode)

Language / Imperative, prefix, reflexive verbs, imperfect form in Polish - 6 questions [14]

I'm not sure you're using the term "imperative" correctly in your questions. Do you really mean the imperative mode (used mostly for commands "do it, please", "don't smoke in this room!") or something else?

1. In the dictionary, there is no imperative, future simp. form of "wiedzieć" (and some other verbs too). Would it be correct to say "będę wiedzieć"?

Yes, "być + infinitive (of an imperfective verb)" = future tense
(for perfective verbs a form derivated from the verb's stem is used, without the auxiliary "być"), other possibility, still only for imperfective verbs, is "będę wiedział(-a)" (with the past tense form instead of the infinitive, but it's more complicated for foreigners, because you have to use the correct gender - masculine or feminine - in this construction, so the first option is easier)

2. Is the difference between "iść" and "jechać" "to go" and "to go by__"?

"to go" functions in Polish both as iść or jechać, the difference is that we use "iść" when the movement is on foot, "jechać" - by mechanical means. In fixed expressions (like "to go to school/work" "iść/chodzić" is used)

3. Aside from the future simp. tense, is prefix "po-" added to [some] verbs when a command is being given? ex: posłuchaj.

These are actually 2 different verbs (słuchać and posłuchać), I can't say why "posłuchaj" or "popatrz" are more often used for commands, maybe because they sound more polite?

4. The imperative, present form congegations of "zobaczyć."

I can't answer this, I don't understand the word "congegations" in your question.

5. Does Polish have reflexive verbs/what are some examples? Are reflexive pronouns needed?

Yes, we have reflexive verbs, but unlike French, Italian, Spanish, German, Scandinavian languages, there is only one reflexive pronoun needed for all instances, it's always "się"

myć - to wash
myć się - to wash oneself ("se laver", if you speak French)
so it's:
Myję się
Myjesz się
Myje się
Myjemy się
Myjecie się
Myją się
sometimes (like in other languages) the reflexive verb has significantly different meaning than the non-reflexive one, for example:
uczyć = to teach
uczyć się = to learn

The reflexive pronoun "się" appears also instead of the direct object when the subject and the direct object are the same. Structurally it seems like a reflexive verb, but semantically it's a little different.

6. Quote: "In imperfect form, an unfinished activity is indicated, and finished activity is signified by the perfect verb twin..." my question is why is "nauczyć" in its perfect form if it means "to teach to..." Does the prefix "na-" morph "uczyć" into past tense and therefore the action of teaching would have already been completed?

The problem with perfective/imperfective aspect lies in the fact that they don't described finished/unfinished activities (for this you simply use tenses, Past, Present or Future), but rather the complete/incomplete status of the activity, hence the more accurate reference in English are the Simple/Continouos forms of a verb.

Uczyłem się angielskiego przez 2 lata - I was studying English for 2 years (but I still don't speak it well, so the activity is incomplete, although it's finished, because I stopped learning after that 2 years period)

Uczę się angielskiego od 2 lat - I've studied English for 2 years (and am still doing it, action incomplete and unfinished)

Nauczyłem się angielskiego w 2 lata - I learnt English in 2 years (I speak it well, so the activity is complete)

Muszę nauczyć się angielskiego, zanim wyjadę do Nowej Zelandii - I have to learn English before I leave for New Zealand (I have to speak it well by the time of my deprature, so the activity will be complete, although it's refering to the future).

The imperfective/perfective aspects have been discussed here in several threads, recently, a few months ago and probably also earlier (before I joined the forums), so you could search for some older threads and maybe find some useful informations there.