Love / Was I wrong or is it just my polish gf [26]

Like most men, you have no idea what is going on when it comes to women and completely miss the signals they give each other and the tactics they use.

Your girlfriend, on the other hand, is Polish and recognizes what the other Polish girl is up to. Yes, becoming 'friends' as a way to move in on another woman's guy is nothing new or different in Poland. Usually the guy has no idea of what's going on until he's been dumped by his original girlfriend or cheating on her with the new girl who doesn't respect him (since he was so easy to manipulate) and will also dump him in due time.

The choice is up to you:

1. Continue talking about your GF to this 'friend'.

2. Respect your current girlfriend and find reasons to not talk to this 'friend'.

Language / IS "MY Z BRATEM" OK FOR "MY BROTHER AND I"? [28]

"He's a gay." is perfectly grammatical, it's just not idiomatic, like saying "on jest homoseksualny" in Polish (again grammatical but not idiomatic).

Interestingly "he's a gay" but not *"she's a gay" but "she's gay" is fine.

Basically more often than not Polish likes to describe people with nouns when English prefers adjectives "Jestem Polakiem" or "Jestem Polką" vs "I'm Polish".

Dinner is different and I'm not thinking clearly enough right now to explain it (I think there's a name for that kind of article-less noun but it escapes me).

unavailable for comment:



I was going to post this seprately with a quote but the stoooopid double positng rules prevented that.

Language / IS "MY Z BRATEM" OK FOR "MY BROTHER AND I"? [28]

krakow1,

The rule in traditional grammar is that the form should be "to my brother and me" because you use 'me' after a preposition (to).

To decide whether to use "me" or "I" in expressions that use 'and' drop everything but I/me and it will be clear.

They talked to (my brother and) me.

(Surely you wouldn't say: They talked to I.)

(My brother and) I went to the movies.

But usage is changing now. What seems to be happening is a switch from the old rule (as detailed above) to a new rule:

use 'me' before 'and'
use 'I' after 'and'.

Actual usage for many people is a combination of the old rule and the new rule.


1. Adjectives don't have subjects in English.
2. There is no adjective in the sentence "Someone is talking to you and me."

Language / IS "MY Z BRATEM" OK FOR "MY BROTHER AND I"? [28]

But not anarchy!

Language / IS "MY Z BRATEM" OK FOR "MY BROTHER AND I"? [28]

Time for the linguist to weigh in.

In (Standard American) English.

Me and my brother went to the movies.
My brother and I went to the movies.

are both fine. The first is considerably more informal than the second (I wouldn't use the first in a job interview but I'd use it with co-workers once I have the job).

My brother and me went to the movies.
I and my brother went to the movies.

are both odd (I think the first is more acceptable than the second which sounds very unnatural though it might be okay somewhere or other).

They talked to me and my brother.
They talked to my brother and me.

Both fine, the second maybe a little more formal but not much.

They talked to my brother and I.

I wouldn't say this and I don't like it, but it's okay in informal conversation. Again avoid in job interviews or any other context where you're speaking with someone more important than you.

They talked to I and my brother.

Ack! wrong! Can't imagine anyone using this under any circumstance.

Language / IS "MY Z BRATEM" OK FOR "MY BROTHER AND I"? [28]

I've never heard "my z bratem" though I have heard "ja z bratem"

I have the idea that "(mój) brat i ja" is pretty common too (more often without the unnecessary 'mój')

With verbs "Z bratem rozmawialismy" seems far more common than "rozmawiałem z bratem" (which makes the conversation sound one-sided).

Love / polish boyfriend has wrecked my english [48]


English would disintegrate without articles.
There is so much homophony in English that articles are needed for native speakers to parse sentences. I once had to read a five or six page article with almost no articles and it was almost impossible, real agony.

I always way, when in doubt use an article, the wrong article (or an article when none is needed) is easier for native speakers to deal with in writing or speech than the lack of an article when one is needed.

Love / Polish Girlfriend gone missing [154]

Extreme? Yeah, and I realize it might not be entirely her idea, but ask yourself, in her place would or wouldn't you find a way to contact someone you really loved?

Apparently people ted_no7's contacted know what's going on won't tell him (probably at her request). Can you name that tune?

Love / Polish Girlfriend gone missing [154]

Welcome to Dumpsville, population: ted_no7

Sorry if that's harsh, but this is new info (or I missed it before) and it _really_ sounds like she's decided to end the relationship and didn't have the guts or backbone to tell you directly (and the hospital stuff is just a cover).

I'm coming over to shewolf's point of view: sick or not, father or not, if she cared for you, she'd find a way to let you know (unless there are other details besides the message from the sister who may have been acting on her own).

Finally, in the US (or UK usually) a person who has to choose between a romantic relationship and their family will usually choose the relationship.

In Poland, even if they speak badly of them, they'll usually choose their family.

Love / Polish girlfriend and birth control! [62]

First, "pulling out" is not a good method of birth control. Enough sperm are released before ejaculation that your girlfriend could easily get pregnant.

Second, part of the social bargain in Poland (for a looooong time now) has been that couples that have sex before marriage are expected get married if she gets pregnant (note high percentage of big bellied brides).

If you're serious about birth control, bag your business and tell her why. If you're old enough to be having regular sex you're old enough to talk about the potential consequences.

Love / polish boyfriend has wrecked my english [48]


"I be go to the shop" is not fluent English (of any kind I can think of).

News / EU PRO-HOMO INTERFERENCE PROTESTED [19]

Polonius, it wouldn't be hard to show truly awful statistics for being Polish vs veing German where

Poles have higher rates of alcoholism
Poles have higher rates of crime (Pole on Pole _and_ Pole on German)
Poles have higher rates of corruption in public institutions than Germans
Poles have lower life expectancy rates than Germans
Poles have a lower literacy rate than Germans
Poles have higher unemployment than Germans
Poles have lower income than Germans (and a higher percentage living in poverty)

So the obvious conclusion is that Poles should try to become German?

Even if I accepted your statistics at face value (which I don't) none of them are reasons in and of themselves for not allowing same sex marriage.

Actually since married heterosexuals tend to live longer than never marrieds, you can make a good case that health policy demands same sex marriage.

News / EU PRO-HOMO INTERFERENCE PROTESTED [19]

Yeah the statistics for sexual abusers among priests is way higher than the among the general population.

Does this mean people should stop going to church?

News / EU PRO-HOMO INTERFERENCE PROTESTED [19]

I call Godwin for your Hitler-bomb.


If this were true, then infertile heterosexual couples would not be allowed to marry and fertility tests would be a precondition of marriage. After all, an infertile couple bumping nasties (sodomy I guess by your definition) does not meet your definition of family.

Actually maybe you've explained one of the reasons that there are so many visibly pregnant brides in Poland - the priests are requiring proof of fecundity before couples can get married.

If I were an orphan I'd rather be adopted by a loving gay couple than live in an orphanage.

As for your statistics, some citations would be helpful.

Love / Polish Girlfriend gone missing [154]

2) My, that's a fetching moustache!

News / EU PRO-HOMO INTERFERENCE PROTESTED [19]


from Wikipedia: pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerzy_Waldorff

(my translation)

"Jerzy Waldorff was gay. In his autobiography "The dance of life with death" he wrote that that was the reason his father disowned him. His life partner was the dancer Mieczysław Jankowski, with whom he spent the last 60 years of his life, beginning in 1939 and who toward the end of his (Waldorff's) life cared for him and (their) home. The pair tried to hide their union avoiding appearing in public together and in interviews Waldorff presented Jankowski as a cousin."

But to Polonius 3, Waldorff was just a homo shacking up with another.

Love / Polish Girlfriend gone missing [154]


Are they?

I still say that your long term goal should be to neutralize the hostility (if not win them over). Learn some Polish, learn how to behave if and when you're introduced etc

Also, when you find out something (for good or ill) you need to post it here, we will want closure on this thing too.

News / EU PRO-HOMO INTERFERENCE PROTESTED [19]

Oooh equality and rights for someone different from them, no wonder PiS hates it.

Love / Polish Girlfriend gone missing [154]

The keeping in touch thing is less Polish than just human gravity which works in strange ways. I remember a friend who saw her Warsaw friends more frequently when she lived in Krakow, when she moved to Warsaw she hardly saw them at all.

There are also individual differences, I tend to have hermit inclinations and Polish friends have complained that I don't make enough effort to keep in touch (and I usually think I have to have some special news to make contact, which is dumb, but ....)

By time working differently I meant that while anglo-saxon time flows on pretty evenly, but time is irregular in Poland, long stretches of nothing happening and then a lot of activity crammed into a short period (kind of like a bus stop where you wait for 20 minutes and then three buses show up at the same time).

And services of various kinds can just sort of stop for shorter or longer periods of time and people either work around it or put whatever it is on hold.

Love / Polish Girlfriend gone missing [154]


Based on what you wrote, you weren't blinded, you were in a coma.

To ted-70: Two weeks recuperation doesn't sound at all excessive to me (by Polish standards ) and I'd go further. I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't go back to the unversity until January.

Not much happens at the university just before Christmas and I can easily imagine a Polish student (even one with with a not-great home situation) not wanting to make the commute to Cracow for just a week of classes (I know from experience most students will skip the 21st and 22nd) and then try to beat the travelling hordes closer to the holiday.

So I'd put off serious searching until classes start back up in January.

But ... if you haven't heard anything by then, make sure you're available on New Year's Eve. She'll probably go to a party at friends then and that might be the best time for her to try to make contact. You don't want to miss a call because your phone's turned off or you can't hear it.

Love / Polish Girlfriend gone missing [154]

Well assuming that he finds his girlfriend and she wants to continue the relationship it would make more sense (for all concerned) for him to try to win the rest of the family over (the father may be a lost cause he might just be overprotective or his buttons might be easily pushed).

Learning some Polish and learning how to behave in Poland (that is making some effort to conform to local norms when he's in Poland rather than the usually disastrous tactic of 'just be yourself') if and when he meets them will go a long way to convincing them that he's serious and worthwhile.

Life / Are Polish People Hypochondriacs? [50]

An L4 is a form from a doctor legally freeing you from any work (during which time your employer still has to pay you and is legally prevented from firing you)

Traditionally not to hard to get, often for vague or nebulous reasons.

Basically, getting sick is a canny life strategy for many Polish people as many, many different kinds of problems can be solved (or at least postponed) by a lapse in health and long recuperation.

Love / Polish Girlfriend gone missing [154]

I think maybe people are getting ahead of themselves.

ted_no7 is anxious because he's operating on anglosaxon time. Things happen on a different schedule in Poland (where things can just stop for periods of time) and it honestly might not have occurred to the girl that he's as worried as he is (or she might be working through her own difficulties and needing to pay full attention to that).

She had a chest infection in a hypochondriac country, being in the hospital isn't necessarily that sinister. Again Polish convalescent time is a lot longer than anything you'll find in the UK.

In contacting student rep or coordinator or whoever at the university. The point is not to ask for information but if they can deliver a message if they see her. The point is not seem like a stalker or obsessed creep. Acting as an intermediary isn't anything unusual IME. "Please, tell her I'm concerned, here's my contact info in case she's lost it".

Given all that, yes, there are some Polish women (and men) who'll just dump a partner cold out of the blue but usually they give themselves away earlier if you pay attention and some people prefer to avoid scenes and just hope the other person will catch on that they got a free ticket to dumpsville. But again, that doesn't seem to be the case here.

My idea is that showing up in Tarnow will probably be either pointless or cause more problems than it will solve. Make sure it's easy to get into touch with you and hope for the best.

Love / Polish Girlfriend gone missing [154]

First, this sounds like a tough situation and you have my sympathy.

Second, my advice would be to be patient and hold off for a while and to _not_ go to her home town until you have more info.

You say she was in the hospital. IME many Polish people think of getting over an illness as a fulltime job that requires all their concentration so it's easy to imagine that until she feels healthy again she's putting everything else on hold (and doesn't need the trauma of you showing up unannounced).

You should know what and where she's studying so I'd check with her university. You might try by telephone but you'd need a Polish person to make the calls as there's no guarantee that the staff have enough English to deal with a native speaker over the phone. That said, checking in the administrative offices is probably a waste of time as they don't keep much in the way of records about individual students.

If you do come to Poland go there in person and ask around a little. Approach students in mixed groups (less creepy) with her picture until you find someone who knows her. You might try to find her schedule and talk with a teacher.

Alternately you might try to find either the starosta roku (sort of a student representitive for the class) or the opiekun roku (a teacher charged with a particular class through which they're supposed to deal things like sick leave) and see if they know anything (or if they can give her a message when she returns).

Good luck.

Life / HAND-KISSING WANING IN POPULARITY? [29]


Well, that would explain why so few women extend their hands to be kissed nowadays.

Why not just lick it a while? yech.

Life / HAND-KISSING WANING IN POPULARITY? [29]

It's my understanding that women control this practice in that the way she extends her hand indicates whether she expects a shake or a kiss. A man who twists her hand to kiss it would be a jerk. It's less bad to limply shake a hand extended for a kiss but again, the woman is supposed to decide which greeting should take place.

If the custom is going out of style, it's because of the choices of women, men have nothing to do with it.

Also, the man is supposed to bend at the waist and meet her hand, not yank it up to his kisser. And IINM he's not really supposed to physically kiss it, but rather lightly lip smack a centimeter or two from her hand. If he does touch her hand the lips should be closed, there shouldn't be any transfer of bodily fluids to the back of the lady's hand.

Life / Mis, Seksmisja and Rejs now available on DVD with English Subtitles [3]


uh, that should be "translated very well" and "word for word"

forgive me if i'm not so optimistic about the quality of the subtitles.

The problem with Miś is that a viewer needs either

a) first hand experience of living in a communist country, or

b) long experience of living in Poland

to understand it and find it funny.

Language / (part 2) Polish Language Pronunciation - Sample Words and Phrases [311]

Oh for heaven's sake, this is not peasant or rabble or communists, it's perfectly normal language change.

Historically words like "byliśmy" were two words "byli śmy" (still written as such in other Slavic languages, like Czech "byli jsme" or Croat "bili smo". For some strange reason it was written as one wod in Polish which why the stress seemed irregular. As people began to perceive it as one word it's normal for the stress to regularize.

As for the -yka and -ika words, I haven't noticed as much shift in stress but again, that's perfectly normal language change and no cause to get all hot and bothered.

Language / POLONIANISMS? [11]

I've found a fair amount of Polish influence in my English after years of living in Poland, articles occasionally disappear and sometimes prepositions realign themselves toward Polish.

I see you bought new rug.

I'm going on post office today.

I'll also borrow Polish words (especially when there's no real equivalent for me in English).

I'm going to the stołowka for coffee and pączkies.

Do you have karta? (meaning karta pobytu)

Language / POLONIANISMS? [11]


Forget what P3 calls it,

what linguists call it depends on why it's happened:

if the person who says bardzo good does so because they forgot or don't know the word dobrze and an English word came out (on purpose or accidentally) then that's interference. Nb, if a person is learning a third (or later) language, interference is liable to be stronger from the person's second language than from their first.

If the person knows and remembers the word dobrze but uses good instead for whatever reason, then that's code-switching and tends to be endemic in bilingual settings (where all involved are fluent in the same languges).

NB borrowing an English word and giving it Polish endings (or vice versa) is borrowing. Borrowings range from nonce (happening once) to rare, sporadic, frequent and finally established when you've got a new word in the borrowing language.