Pawian If we folow your way of thinking. We are very close in our opinions. Poland should build huge fence on eastern border with Ukraine.
If somebody wants to open company in Ukraine don't do it. If somebody would like to build house there - don't do it. One day Ukrainians can knock to your doors and claim that it is holly Ukrianian land on which everything should belong to true Ukrainians.
First of all, during Austrian partition Poles in Galicia region had advanced autonomy. They governed such branches as economy, culture and education. Also, Poles took part in the main Austrian government, twice a Prime Minister was Polish.
Bismarck and the "Polish Question." Speech to the Lower House of the Prussian Parliament, January 28, 1886. h-net.org/~german/gtext/kaiserreich/speech.html
Read Bismark speach ... Poles dominated Prussian parlament and that is why Bismark dissolved it.
I love this part of his speach:
Finally, [there was] the peculiar capacity of Germans, not found among other nations, to not only get out of their own skin but to get into that of a foreigner (laughter) and completely to become, in a word, something like a Pole, Frenchman, or American. I remember from my childhood learning the most popular melodies in Berlin about the old Polish general:
Remember, my brave Lagienka; (laughter) Ask no one of my destiny; My Fatherland...
But that was not the German Fatherland, rather the Polish, that the Berlin organ grinders were lamenting. The appropriate twin of this was the interest in all things French. Who, of my age, has not heard with enthusiasm the recitation of, for example, "Bertrande's Farewell? Or the poetry of Baron von Gaudy or other glorifications of Napoleon I, who thoroughly mowed down the Germans, for which they demonstrated their gratitude in a way I may not describe with a zoological adjective.
It was even worse in Ukraine. Despite partitions, Poles controlled economy in Galicia all the time. Since 14 century when Lvov was incorporated into the Polish kingdom till 1939, when Nazis-Soviets dismembered Poland.
No body pushed annybody there, anny land has been confiscated, they sold land and Poles build city there...
It isn`t only about Wielkopolska. Look at the map of railway network in today`s Poland. Do you see the difference between the east and west?
I know that people form Lesser Poland has the custom to put themself down... that is why long before Germans and Russians ... somebody started to call "Greater Poland" Pozań region and Lesser Poland "Kraków region". What is more palaces in Greater Poland are also bigger than in Lesser Poland ...
What is more ... :
Trasa, Autostrada A2 Poznań
It is new ... it is not the Germans it is mr. Kulczyk and his company Autostrada Wielkopolska, what is more it has been build before Polish accession to EU.
What is more : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulturkampf
Prussia's Germanisation policies in the Province of Posen mostly failed. Although most of the administrative measures aimed against the Poles remained in force until 1918, between 1912 and 1914 only four Polish-owned estates were expropriated, while at the same time Polish social organizations successfully competed with German trade organizations and even started to buy land from the Germans. The long-lasting effect of the Polish-German conflict in the area was development of a sense of Greater Polish identity, distinct from the identity common in other parts of Poland and primarily associated with nationalist ideas rather than socialism, prevailing in other parts of the country in the 20th century.
How to say it ... eastern Germans are were also weaker ... so it is not only story about Lesser Poland and Greater Poland.
I can see you are really losing your temper here. Man, calm down.
Stop puting yourself down. All Polish tribes have such nice names. Mazovians, Pomeranians, Podlesians, Silesians ect. and you have your name for a reason.
If we take Davies as reliable source 300 isnt like 500 000 people.
Secondly: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lwów_Eaglets
Lwów Eaglets (Polish: Orlęta Lwowskie) is a term of affection applied to the Polish child soldiers who defended the city of Lviv during the Polish-Ukrainian War (1918-1919).
Maybe after the battle this kids have done someting bad ...
Going back to infrastructue. Don't you think that enviroment means a lot. Most of Jews were living in eastern Poland some cities had Jewish majority. Białystoks population was in 60% Jewish. If you are looking for German/Jewish/Polish theories... I'd say that enviroment and mentality means a lot.
So,how much is a life worth then,in Dollars say? Some people dont put $ signs on human life or try to profit from historical misery unlike some others do....
Ok lets not talk about humans but about properties.
Poland was on the right side durring WWII and I don't understand why some private properties changed the owners and now Lwów is whole in SS Galtizen posters as their heros...
Nathan :) are you looking for key in Polish - Russian relations. :))))
I am not going to comment his unsupported claims.
I agree that it is bad idea to open company in Ukraine all in all Ukraininias will steal investment because it is "Ukrainian Land" on which Ukrainan SS Galitzien is hero and everything build on this land should belong to Ukrainian people ... lets leave them alone. :)
I remember destroyed by Ukrainians graveyard of Polish soldiers who fought for Polishness of this city just after regaining of independence in 1918. Graves of French or American volountires who fought on Polish side were devastated by Ukrainians as well...
One thing is sure in contacts with Moscow Poland shouldn't think about Ukraine...
And Salomon, this is the last sentence I want to address to you: you are worthless pathetic russian scum.
I am not Russian but it is exactly why Ukraine isn't worth efforts. Let them deal with their problems alone. :) Polish public opinion was so naive. It is really good that it is changing. I am waiting for more of your posts.
Here is Polish chance for development as long as Polish computer programing education is already established it is just important to not lose this possition.
Some people say that it has something do do with developed military industry durring communist times (many " hard core" mathematicas were needed).
Well, in my opinion they are tendencious but show something 120 of all prizes were given for people with Jewish origin (mostly Americans and Brits) and only 8 for Israel. Japan has 16 half given in 21 century and I find it strange as long as Japan in 21 century isn't so invotvative as it was in second part of 20 century.
Spain has 7
Australia has 9
Anny way, people who get nobel prizes are for sure great but proportions have much more to do with fashion and preferences in particular times... it is like with Oscar or Miss Word.
In my opinion Ukrainians are not mature enought for positive neighbourhood we offered them. I doubt that they are going to met standarts we accept in next decades. It is not racist statement, it is like with ethnic Germans from Kazachstan (who were moved there by Russian communists)
In 1990s used the right for German citizenship and now there is problem with their reassimilation as they stick to customs from Kazachstan, stick with Germans who came back form Kazachstan, don't particpate in German public life ect. It is going to take a lot of time to reasimilate them ...
Ukrainians with their glorification of SS Galizien ... aren't even ideologicaly ready for the "change". In my opinion Poland was to optymistic in contacts with Ukraine.
hank God i was born in the best country in the world.....Why does Britain have 137 Nobel Prizes
Most of them weren't born in UK. In my opinion many people take care about such peoples origin and interest about the countries where they were born rise.
In my opinion Poland as typical central european country should try to be something between two parts of continent. Make advatage form this very hard situation.
Poland with other central european countries should try to be like bridge between this two parts of continent and support each other in this mission. Confronation between east and west make form Poland and other central european states ... front line.
I support death penalty only for murderers, so if you are not the one your life would be not under threat.
I thought that JPII was against death penalty.
Anny way your clasiffication of the murder (in vitro) is Catholic one, which I question as most people in Poland. You can go and demonstrate, you can debate with people but just be polite and don't break the law.
If one day you are going to have problems with having childern you can visit this clinic in Warszawa :
en.gameta.pl/the-clinic/the-clinic.html
We welcome you cordially in Fertility Treatment Centre GAMETA. The aim of our Clinic is to help all pairs reporting problems with conceiving desired progeny. Infertility is unfortunately an entity observed more and more frequently and a huge problem for many men and women. In our Clinic dreams come true - thanks to discoveries of modern medicine - we overcome barriers and give hope for the appearance of the long awaited child in your family. The Head of the clinic i s professor MD PhD Jerzy Radwan, who, in the 80-ies of the previous century gained experience in treating infertility in France and the United States. He is the co-author of the 1987 success - the birth of the first child in Poland conceived with the use of in vitro fertilization (IVF).
Close and long-lasting cooperation with French and American centres guarantees that our patients will undergo most modern methods of infertility treatment on a level meeting highest worldwide standards. We constantly widen our knowledge and abilities, which enabled us to reach such spectacular results. The best confirmation of our efforts are thousands of children conceived in our Clinic, living not only in Poland but also in other countries.
If anything, then I might claim that for example religious sects in traditional Catholic (Protestant, Muslim etc) monarchy questioned legitimacy of king to rule. They consisted anti-system element, so naturally they were risky for state stability. This is the reason why many European monarchs targeted them.
I claim that Catholic Church is sect which questions legitimacy of the statee when it comes to for example to in vitro. As long as you oppose it in normal way like:
demostrations, debates ect. it is ok for me but just try to break the law :)
My point is that in previous debates you claimed that miniorities with strange views are risky for state stability ... now you, with your views, are in miniority.
So what should we do with you to make Poland more stable ?
Since 1992 the bilingual German-Polish Gymnasium is visited by pupils from Germany (526 in 2008) and Poland (161), leading to the German Abitur as well as to the Polish matura. In 2008 the certificates were handed over by the foreign ministers of both countries Frank-Walter Steinmeier and Radoslaw Sikorski[1]. Since Poland joined the Schengen Agreement, the population of Löcknitz is growing, as rates and costs of land acquisition are lower than in Poland. Many commuters from Szczecin are living in Löcknitz [2] and the first economical investments are made in Löcknitz by Polish enterprises [3] [4], supported by the Löcknitz administration[1]. Children of Polish parents, born in Löcknitz receive a "Welcome grant" of 500,00 €
Well Löcknitz becomes Szczecins bedroom. Szczecin is much bigger and it is natural that this city radiates on both sides of the border. In my opinion it is in both sides inerest to develope togehter.
It has nothing to do with "Drang nach Westen" or "Drang nach Osten".
Crow we need More Nietzsche in east Germany and we will make uprise there.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche
Even by virtue of my descent, I am granted an eye beyond all merely local, merely nationally conditioned perspectives; it is not difficult for me to be a "good European." On the other hand, I am perhaps more German than present-day Germans, mere citizens of the German Reich, could possibly be-I, the last anti-political German. And yet my ancestors were Polish noblemen: I have many racial instincts in my body from that source-who knows? [...] When I consider how often I am addressed as a Pole when I travel, even by Poles themselves, and how rarely I am taken for a German, it might seem that I have been merely externally sprinkled with what is German.
In it Nietzsche is even more adamant about his Polish Identity. "I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood."
Look honestly at Polish achievements in Ukraine - what are they? What infrastructure did Poles build in Ukraine? The truth is sad, I know, and it hurts but it is just truth - nothing.
It was Austrain partition zone (the poorest one). Secondly after 1918 (partition) Poles have started to industralize this arena.
The 5-year long project was initiated by a famous Polish economist, deputy Prime Minister and Minister of the Treasury, Eugeniusz Kwiatkowski. Its goal was to create a heavy industrial center in the middle of the country, as far as possible from any borders, strengthen the Polish economy and reduce unemployment. The four-year plan for the development of COP was scheduled from 1 September 1936 until 30 July 1940 and was interrupted by the outbreak of the Second World War and the German invasion of Poland on 1 September 1939. Nonetheless, the COP project succeeded in vastly expanding Polish industry
Secondly, if they can`t govern themselves, it means that Polish pany didn`t teach them that. The only thing Ukrainians were expected by Poles was to labour in the fields, not to participate in governments.
After 1918 there was no nobility and slave laubor was forbiden. In 17 century Polish peasants had the same life las Ukrainian one ...
Nothing. Look at Germans and what they did in their partition zone which is in Poland today - they built and developed infrastructure, railways, roads, facilities, cities, which stand till today and are used by Poles in 21 century.
It was the Poles. Greater Poland always was one of the richest regions in Poland.
What is more : Gdynia has been build by Poles as well as railways ect.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gdynia
The decision to build a major seaport at the Gdynia village was made by the Polish government in the winter of 1920, in the midst of the Polish-Soviet War (1919-1920). Poland realized the need for a port city it was in complete control of, economically and politically.
What is more I see that you don't know history of Western Poland and use harmful stereotypes..
Sasha or Constantine, or another Russian in disguise, stop this propaganda, OK? :):):):):) Ukraine is our strategic partner and despite a few Poles` blindness and anger over the past, it will stay such. :):):)
LOL :) It is not Russian propaganda, more and more people see the truth face of this county. I am not talking about invading them but they shouldn't receive anny support form Poland as long as thy haven't payed compensations.
Don`t you think it would be great to have Great Poland? :):):):)
The Greater Poland Uprising of 1918-1919, or Wielkopolska Uprising of 1918-1919 (Polish: powstanie wielkopolskie 1918-19 roku; German: Großpolnischer Aufstand) or Posnanian War was a military insurrection of Poles in the Greater Poland region (also called the Grand Duchy of Poznań or Provinz Posen region) against Germany. The uprising had a significant effect on the Treaty of Versailles, which granted reconstituted Poland the area won by the Polish insurgents plus some additional territory, at the cost of the territories of Germany
Ukraine is our strategic partner and despite a few Poles` blindness and anger over the past, it will stay such. :):):) Luckily, Polish elites from left to right have been unanimous on this since 1991. Poland was the first country which acknowledged the independent Ukrainian state.
Ukraine is neo - nazi country oppressing half of its citiens. Gloryfing people who murdered Poles... It is going to be worst Polish enemy. I am not talking about changing the borders but simple we shouldn't care much about them.
Ukraine should pay compensations for Poland as Germans paid for Israel. Ethnic cleansing made by Ukrainian SS wasn't solved form legal point of view as it was in other European cases. No body is talking about changing borders. As long as this issue isn't solved Ukraine should be blocked by Poland and opinion about Ukraine in Poland is changing very quickly ...
I have been listening to German debate and Erica Steinbach pointed out how Germans lost legal rights for properties lost in Poland. We are in much better situation and I would use Steinbach plan for getting back what German ally has stolen.
Modern Ukraine:
The same can be said of Poland - many war criminals live in your country or moved to England, France or to the very Canada. They are unpunished as well and you keep learning from them history - be careful.
Polish FM Radoslaw Sikorski starts a two day visit to Russia, Tuesday evening.
Polish FM Radoslaw Sikorski starts a two day visit to Russia, Tuesday evening.On Wednesday Poland's head of diplomacy will meet his Russian host Sergei Lavrov.
Deputy FM Andrzej Kremer told reporters in Warsaw that the Moscow visit consists of two important entities: bilateral discussions between the two countries' foreign ministers and a meeting of the committee for Polish-Russian cooperation strategy chaired by the ministers with the participation of deputy ministers representing various departments.
