Sarmatia Europe - Could it be political reality?

You did explain nothing!
You stated a personal opinion as a "fact", remember:


...and boy were you wrong!

Oh well I stated what I have noticed. If you want to say I am wrong then go ahead.

I explained...but it fell on deaf ears! lol!

So I was correct, you have to go out more...


I have more than just my opinon...contrary to you! Even facts, surveys, stats! :)
Next time you offer personal opinions as generalized "facts" you better come prepared...

These dont tell the inside story of a nations phsyche on emotional and individual aspects...it speaks about material matters.


Well you were not correct.

I have been and am still quite social enough...perhaps alot more than you. But no matter how OUT you go... you have to have eyes open, bond between soul, mind and heart... and proper understanding of your surroundings.

I do not refute your 'Brand' choice... but its not that what I was talking about.

You have no idea what you are talking about at all....

Well they are.

Materialism does not only relate with monetary value. Have you any background in Economics (anyways, I respect all your backgrounds...dont worry).

Look... I was not speaking on behalf of the world. I spoke for the people who are my ancestors and neighbours and friends and all! Its like this... I have been in School, University and all... and the sample specimen (people in plain words) I have met are even when not very anti-german...would like to avoid it...or not believe that its the best place!....

To tell you the truth I have talked with some germans...I have good respect for them. I dont throw stones on them :D... its just that some past always come between...which keeps a German - a German... and a Pole - a Pole.

Wonder if you get it. But if you dont...dont bother. Lets just live happily! Lets not get into the side which is still on the healing process (not yet healed). Lets give it time, and not tease it. Its no use to tamper or tease it.

Well...if you think opinions about governance, culture and heritage, about the people are about materialism...okay...I can't hinder you, it's your problem!


Exactly!


If it is so then: "You should go out more!" and join the world!


You are entitled to your opinon, I don't really care if you like Germans and Germany or not.
What I objected to was stating this opinion of yours as if your little own prejudices are shared by the majority of the people!

As long as you can't bring your own evidence to support your statements I advise you to think again..

I guess... the problem in communication is natural and inevitable.

I am not interested to argue on this... we Poles dont like to fight all the time you see.

Have a good time.

Well, you were interested enough to utter those statement and to stand by them even if shown contrary evidence.

PS: Admitting defeat is not dishonorable...

I wouldn't personally care who they are in terms of national background. They're occupants.


They became the majority in the past century mostly in Tito's times. In fact they have nothing to do with a Kosmet.


Rock was that Turkish "european" essence?

Well...it's a fact of life now!
What would you advise to do about it?
(I'm really interested to hear your alternative....)


WHAT??? The same holy Tito ruling the great and wonderful, holy Yugoslavia whose demise Crow still mourns??? Would that mean it's all their own fault??? Can't be...

I'm sure the evil Westerners/Germans had their dirty hands innit if you look deep enough!

It's this what happens if Slavs are let be to their own devices? :)

It's just shouldn't have happened.


But you're right, that happenned by force, thus the only way to get back I think use force as well. There's one good Russian saying "protiv loma net priema, esli net drugogo loma". Can be literally rendered as: "there's no school against a crow-bar, unless you have another crow-bar". In other words "might makes right" how tremendously civilized Europe and the USA teach us.


Not that easy. Visual prosperity of the former Jugo were based on the permanent oppressing of the majority nation which doesn't work in a long perspective. Thinking that most of Serbs deify Tito is at least wrong. Tito was a very mixed-blessing figure on Balkans.


I like Germany and your culture, your heritage however German political top worked at the ground zero of Jugoslavia disintegration. All the ethnic conflicts in the territory were artificially inspired, well-planned and funded. Serbs unfortunatelly played a role of the scapegoat (as if it's their guilt in everything that has happenned there which is a blatant lie for ignorant, uneducated, plain people).

Well..the ethnic cleansing of millions of German civilians from the East shouldn't have happened to but it did, inclusive the loss of 1/4 of the land!

We have to accept that fact of life too or risk another war again...


Well, then Germany is the more civilized country than the lot of you!


Crap!

Without the Jugos hating each other and not wanting to wait a second till running away from each other NO ONE could have destroyed Yugoslavia!

They really didn't need Germany for that just a power vacuum, the one strong figure holding this powder keg together with chains.
As that was gone, Yugoslavia was gone!
Tells volumes about the people and this country...

What they seem to need now is a scape goat to not having to look at the mirror and to accept that this was all their own doing!

PS: Where are the mass demonstrations in all ex-Yugoslavia by the people demanding a renewal of Jugoslavia??? Don't see any...do you??? How many of the new nations would give up their freedom and indepence for a second Yugoslavia???

"Artifical inspired ethnic conflicts"...my ass!

What was that? Just to keep me informed... Live and learn how dedushka Lenin said.


That's what I was actually saying. I hope you understand that "civilized" is in inverted commas. This step of Germany frustrated me... ;(


That was an amazing argument. Calm down, buddy... I'm your friend, won't hurt you.


You're right in that Jugo united pretty different folks but don't forget that most of atrocities kept fresh in one's memory occured in 90th. Germany as well as the US didn't surely need strong Slavic formation which Jugo was, that could potentially ally with your straight geostrategical enemy (I mean my country).

Sh!t happens, BB. You don't have to defend your politicians. Lie is their profession. Meanwhile every formation in this world studies its own interests which can be different than that yours.


Please spare me these childiish thoughts. Modern media-tools can make tomorrow hostile the one, who you bore fraternal feelings to yesterday.

I crap on my politicians whenever I think they deserve it but to blame the fate of Yugoslavia solely on the Germans is just that...crap...sorry for a better word!

It is so "crowish"...


Childish thoughts???

Come on Sasha...now you blame the mass media? EVERYBODY is guilty but the Jugos themselves??? Next you come with a conspiracy...

I thought I emphasized that I hadn't shifted the blame upon Germans. Would you like me to say that again?


Crow is considered wise bird in Russia.

UPD:


Jugoslavian and particularly Serbian guilt is another story. I've never told they are pure angels or something. Genetically Serbs and Dinarics on the whole are very "explosive" nation.

Well, if it's isn't Germany it's the US or GB or France or anyother part of the "evil" "false" West. It wouldn't make it more true...


I always thought our PF-Crow has the wrong nickname...

infoplease.com/spot/yugotimeline1.html

My... do you feel the love between them???
It was ONLY Tito and the communist regime what kept them together forcibly!

As for the US, I may say they as an obvious evil Empire kept up German initiative, mostly funded it and has done 90% of all dirty work (including bombing and other "peace", "democratic" and "civilized" actions).

Good joke Sasha! :)

I'm glad you liked it.


I didn't argue that. We're discussing post-Tito's events ended up with numerous casualties. From my perspective they were mostly inspired from outside rather than from inside by Serbian political acme. Also I don't think it's done any good to any of former-Jugo country. What's the result? Bunch of miserable, poor, dependent countries begging on the threshold of Europe? :) Too bad to admit... but that's how it is.

I'm also glad because now we can Germany and the "evil" west take out of the equation. The disintegration would had happened anyway, sooner or later!


Well...sometimes...no scratch that...in most cases independence seems to be more important to most people than wealth and security!
And how they must have hated the former Jugoslavia to now prefer to be rather independent but "beggars at the threshold of Europe"...makes one think...

Southern, everything said against Germany in the forum (the url you provided) has been said also about Poland. (dog poop on streets, people don't smile, not tolerant of outsiders). So I'm not getting what your point was......?

His point is, ze germans are not like us.We are all in Europe but still divaded and probably have to wait for the NEXT STEP... Final solution!? many wait for that.

It' an argueable statement. However with no Western contribution it could have been less bloody for sure and of course getting back to our initial issue Kosmet stayed Serbian as it's supposed to be.


Dependent. That's how I put it. Nowadays people's opinion all over the world means less than it used to be some time ago and things are only getting worse. At present there's no need for the government of some certain country to follow its people's will, the much better way is to covince them using media resources that they actually need what government wants. This influence, the permanent increasing impact of from outside one has to experience at any time. Hence there's no wonder for me that most of people in Europe (and in Russia also) think that things are the best the way they are at the moment.

Sasha, what do you mean ?

Please explain!

Where the Serbs now paid by the evil west? Who supported a "Great Serbia"? Srebrenica? Sarajevo?


Well...I dunno in which world you live Sasha, but certainly not in mine!
In my world politicians are dependend on the opinion of their people or they get kicked out.
And having diversive media everyone is able to build their own opinion...

I didn't think so much of your past lingers still with you!

The point is right here:


Western payroll has kept this region in a state of endless war.


Rock, I've recently heard a statement from Lodz about "europeaness" of Turkey. Your sentence made in the offensive and unhewn manner is unlikely to look good together with the word "Europe" (considering the best sense that the word "Europe" can bear). Long story short: I think you were being rude and came up with not the best example of how conscious Turkish people could be.

Tell me one thing Sasha...do you think if the evil West wouldn't exist you would live all happily together? :)
Who would be your next scapegoat?


Well...repeating it doesn't make it more true...

BB, any PR-agent (if you have one among your friends) will tell how everything works right now. It's no longer a conspiracy theory or something professional bullsh!tting of people is more like a science, very well-paid science. If you don't take some basic things I am of none help to you.

Everybody wants to mean something, everyone wants to see his opinion taken into consideration. All the process of manipulation is based on this will. Every time they give you what you want... of course you don't want to think that you're able to change nothing... so you're actually almost done for them... they only need to do a slight move to finally prove you that Frau Merkel or Gospodin Putin is what you want. Of course majority thinks they have enough info to build a plausible opinion and they loooooove to hear and always ready to believe that the government on the neighborhood is vigorously bullsh!tted (unlike to them). Tra-ta-ta... how convenient... :)

I am really surprised to see you've got so superficial knowledge of that...


What a naive question? Of course not... Don't get me wrong. I don't want to boil everything down to the total guilt of the West and I don't want to raise new forms of victimhood ("german victimhood"). Take it easy. Everything has its West and East side. just there's permanent confrontation of some groups of people. The strongest takes everything. Don't forget "might gives a right"... You had a might and you divided Jugo. If Serbs once happen to have a might... they will probably cut your country or the US into pieces. Don't cry then... ok? :) And I assure you everything will be like "it was only german guilt"... in this case. "Pobediteli pishut istoriu". The winners write the history. Forget about the justice, in the world scale it has never existed and never will.

Well, believe this too...you can fools some people for long but not all forever!
Some facts are just that, facts! And no amount of media brainwashing can them make true or go away for always!

Not every uncomfortable facts and events are the fault of some conspiracy of western govs and media...


*phew*

:)


Crap!

If we then in the 90's had this power what could we do now?
Hmm....let's see...what to destroy and divide next....hmmm...


Well Serbia is invited to join the EU once they fulfill the requirements. Alot of Serbs would like that....


How came you are being so bitter and cynical?