Sarmatia Europe - Could it be political reality?

First of all, as an example of offensive and unhewn manner you should look the previous posts of Crow about Turks. Some of them were far of being rude, they were insulting.

There is nothing related about being European or not. He deserves much more. I believe you also defend your country or attack such a guy if you were me.

So, I advise you to back off and not to behave as big brother of him.

Well... frankly speaking your government would love to see Russia torn apart but the problem here is that you also need natural resources and Russian is not Serbia.


Exactly. They're not robot, they're also tired of war, people want to live, to have families even at the price of Kosmet. Yet many doesn't agree to exchange Kosovo for EU. I'm with the last ones... However I wouldn't blame them, if they chose first option. I don't have a right.


I'm just calling a spade a spade. Besides you didn't seem to comprehend my notion beforehand when I used other words.


You need neither all, nor forever. You bluntly need the majority. Everything can serve on purpose. If there's a need to show nude girls non-stop on TV to make the majority vote in necessary way they will show them no matter you like it or not. And you can't call them stupid for that, cause they're the majority thence they know it better. :) Isn't it stupid? If you want to know my point... I don't the idea of election everyone over 18 can take part in.

They don't need you forever either. There's always a moment when every kid realize Santa Klaus doesn't exist, at that moment one fairy-tale replaced by another, more plausible.


Well... as far as we talk about things like "Medvedev is a president of Russia" there's no room to make anything up, but in the reality things are more complicated and may be easily tweaked.


Some are of Eastern blame. :)


If he jumped out the opened window, would you follow them?

In the '90s Germany was much more powerful than what it is now.There was also new gained euphoria by the integration of DDR.(which nobody suspected how it would end).

You misunderstand our society Sasha.
Germany is a country which invents, develops, produces and sells.
We NEED to sell to stay rich!
But we can only sell to people who have money. People get only wealthy enough to pay our prices, to buy our products when they live in a half way secure, safe and stable environment.

What would a torn and poor Russia mean for us? Not a reliable market, that's for sure. Millions of not-to-be-consumers of german products! A continous threat and what not.

We so not need nor want that!

Germany (purely from a logical point of view if you don't believe my promises) needs you stable, reliable, prosperous and bourgeois...with money to spend! And the same counts for all EU-members and also the Balkans. We so not need unrest or civil wars! It's bad for business.


It's not as if they have to chose between "EU" or "Kosovo".
It's "EU" or not "EU", that's all...

And you still didn't tell me how you would handle the Kosovo if it were for you...


Hmmm...you are right in some ways.

I would prefer a more direct democracy which works through referendum and petition, where only people can take part in which can show through a test that they have enough knowledge to make a judgement.

But we are just not that far gone already (maybe something for the online future? Once everybody is able to go online and personalities can be checked securely)

Till then we must take what we have with warts and all....and compared to the past it's the best we ever had!

I like that idea! Put government in the hands of the people....and make sure they can make responsible decisions.

Yes...we must find a way to make that work! *nods to Shopski*

Not so much more Europe in Switzerland, but more Switzerland in Europe? They vote on just about everything, apparently.

edit: Warning: Osioł is consuming an alcoholic beverage.

Gimme some? :)

Is it for donkeys only?
Bratski, you should ask first.
:)

Nah...not between men and...erm...donkeys...:)

Polskie piwo dla ciebie!

I think a lot of this Sarmatia today stuff is a sign of an inferiority complex / victim mentality on the part of some people. I don't see how Slavic countries are not just as much part of what makes Europe what it is, and that, with time, those countries, along with their counterparts in Eastern and Southern Europe that were subjected to various economic troubles in the past, will catch up with everyone else and not give a monkeys about pretending to be some special case.

Alcohol warning still stands - this time even stronger!

Well said....but I think it will need another generation or two for those "transition"-pains to vanish.

But compared to Europes past the present is a good time already for most (at least in the Euro zone)...IMHO of course only...

Slavic countries are a part of Europe, you are right Osiol! I agree with what you just said. I don't know why everything has to be a pissing contest of one sort or the other.

very smart donkey

*cautiously takes sip of donkey's drink*

:)

It isn't everybody...it's actually only a few posters here...Lukasz, Crow, Filios...maybe a handful!
These are people who would actually be glad to see the EU destroyed, people becoming unhappy, unrest, war.
Only then they see chances that their perverse ideas will find a following...and they
are right with that.

I reckon there are some people here that we'd disagree with, who we'd get on alright with over a beer or ten. There could be a bit of squabbling and stuff, but it would be okay. There are others, though, who we'd really not get on with in the slightest.

Bratwurst Boy, I disagree with you sometimes. Fancy a beer?

Only one??? We disagree quite often...:)

Dziekuje i/und danke schon! I've just been chatting with an old mate of mine on facebook dot com. One of those people with whom subjects of history, religion and politics always come up and there's always disagreement - we always kind of argue. But we also drink in rounds, give eachother cigarettes and get on well, so there!

The Poles I know or have known in my day-to-day, non-internet existence, have not been hung up on these interestingly weird ideas like those of our old Serbian pal Crow. I'd like to thank Crow for being around and representing some strands of thought that obviously do exist in certain parts of our weird and wonderful continent, but... Crow! I nearly always disagree with you, and sometimes you are even quite disturbing!

Beers for everyone!

Perhaps.. perhaps not.


Look, get this straight Bratwurst. The EU's worth to Poland worth is really neglegable at the moment. It mostly includes bribery from the EU's head in exchange for Polish souls. Poland could break away at any time, and concentrate on their ties with Russia and other non-EU countries. 17 billion of our trade is with Russia, which is a rather small figure if you consider their general proximity and cultural similarities.

The destiny of Poland in the EU is very dark indeed. A 'cultural shower' is necessary before you are fully accepted into the EU's circle of trust. Where will this leave Poland? Another European country infested with immigrants, with its history in the back seat in the drive for wealth?

I think every country will eventually forget who they once were, and this world will indeed become an agragate of greed, wealth... no identity.
There is no way to stop this, either. Only when it is too late, will a certain few look back and say, "What have we done?" Others will simply be destroyed by money and the lust for it.

Bratwurst, now tell me this. Would a few years of blood and unrest, be worth going through to save future generations from infinite misery?

Tricky.
Who decides what is enough knowledge? Heck, what is enough knowledge?

As for the direct democracy, it's been kinda tried and failed miserably. Europe's first constitution lead its country to internal deterioration, weakness, complete mess, demoralization and eventually the the loss of independence.

Referenda simply take too much time and cost too much money. IMO they're OK on occasion but not as a regular, day to day form of government.

Not a solution, but what I think might help a lot though would be politicians' and public employees' accountability. If you wage war and it turns out you acted on false premises you're fried (whatever fried might mean). If you're a govt. employee responsible for contracts, job estimates and such you are screwed (from behind) as many times as the number of dollars you were mistaken by, stole or defrauded. If you don't refill the automatic coffee maker's water container at work then you are executed on the spot and without trial.

No! ABSOLUTELY NOT!

Every dream which makes pain, death, destruction and misery seem "necessary" isn't worth it!

PS: And most people would just disagree with you in seeing a future EU-Europe as "infinite misery", sorry!


Disagree again! It works quite well IMHO...

Where?

Germany? France? GB? Austria..etc.etc.etc. Most european countries (with few exceptions)
The US, Australia...actually most of the western world and then some...Canada, Poland...


Well..I see online votings as a quite easy thing...:)

edit: Darn...bad me...you meant "direct" democracy, right? I just saw democracy...sorry!
Then you are right...direct democracy right now seems only to work in the Swiss....

This round is on me!


Immigrants are a problem which needs tackling!

But there are worse things than a "drive for wealth"...most people are
just that way...it's natural!

I think so too......as more and more people use online services, I think it would not be so difficult to verify identity and make a vote secure. Just because something has not worked in the past, or if the technology is not there to support it now, does not mean it can't be there in the future. "where there is a will, there is a way" so to speak.

I have a feeling you don't understand the term "direct democracy". None of the countries you named have direct democracy. They are all electoral (aka representative) democracies.


As easy as rigging the results. I have been working with computers for years. Too many security holes .

Jaaahaaa...I admitted it already...I misunderstood you...:(


That's why it is right now no real alternative...but what about in 50 years?

Compi technology moves faster than that!

I was typing when you made that post.


crooks will have learned more too.

It is my belief that co-operation with Russia would most likely lead once again to subjugation. A crucial difference with the EU is the presence in the EU of greater diversity and slightly more roguish elements (those of us who haven't adopted the Euro, for example). Poland will become stronger, and a stronger Poland is actually in the EU's interests, not a weaker one.

Like I said, only when it happens will they at once feel horrible about their naiive and laissez-faire attitudes.
Life will go on. We all die eventually, even the optimists.
The blood will perhaps, never be shed on the field, but it is slowly sucked out of each individual soul, with each passing day.


Yes, but HOW strong? Subjugation, unfortunately, has many forms my dear friend. A barrier would be set in place, eventually. What European power would like to see his position shifted or eclipsed by Poland?

Indeed, this is a mute point. As in coming decades, Poland will become less of a Poland we know today, and more of a EU clone. The last opposition will be crushed and a grotesque coordination of 1 mindset will occur. Yes, I can see it already...


Russia, I feel, would benefit from an alliance with a strong European country. Polish fears of Russian overlordship and power should be enough to never lead into a similar situation.

I recently read an article about Russia, and their population decline. Surely, they are past their glory years. You would have to look long and hard to find a Russian who would be openly opposed to an alliance with another Slavic country, even Poland.

But a strong backbone remains, with a potential wildcard in oil. It would be very wise to align yourself right now, before EU ass-kissing begins. Poland would be left in the middle. On one side, EU is looking after its own interests, the well being of their nations population, on the other, Russia and ultimate goal of wealth. Anamosity between Poland and Russia in that situation would be have a very negative side effect.

Now you are getting morose...wait...I have a bottle ouzo for you somewhere...

*goes searching*