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Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored?


pawian 161 | 9,971  
7 Jun 2009 /  #1
Poles have an inferiority complex connected with their presence and position in Europe. For centuries we have been the worse part of Europe, looked down on by other Europeans from more developed and better organized countries.

Reading posts in the forum I constantly come across contradicting voices of members. Some claim Poland is ignored by Europe, others maintain it is already or going to be an important player soon.

My opinion: Poland was ignored, Westerners had a tendency to deal with Poland like with a spoiled child - ignoring its demands or independent thinking and expecting it will remain silent and happily accept what is offered to it.

Mr Chirac famously said in 2003 after Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic backed the US position "They missed a good opportunity to shut up," adding "These countries have been not very well behaved and rather reckless of the danger of aligning themselves too rapidly with the American position."Poland has not forgotten Mr Chirac's "unfortunate" remarks, Mr Kaczynski indicated.

euobserver.com/9/20986

But this attitude is slowly disappearing. Westerners don`t avoid discussion, try to hear Poland`s voice and incorporate it into various European projects.

Examples. Today`s elections sparked a project of 4 TV studios set up in only 4 European capitals: Berlin, Dublin, Rome and Warsaw. It is made by Europarltv.

Europarltv is the official online platform for webcasting from the European Parliament. The service includes live streaming of parliamentary sessions and committee meetings, archived content, debate programmes and educational videos. It was launched 17 September 2008.

europarltv.europa.eu/StartPage.aspx
Don't miss our live coverage of the election night, starting today at 7pm CET! Find out about the results as they become official from 10pm CET by clicking on the "results" icon. Learn more about what is at stake in these elections with our videos under "related content".

Warsaw calling: the situation in Poland
Live from Warsaw: guests interviewed in Warsaw...


More examples of appreciation soon.

PS. The Warsaw connection doesn`t work. :):):):):):) What is going on?
Trevek 26 | 1,702  
7 Jun 2009 /  #2
Not sure about now, but I read that under the Kaczynski government Poland was just being ignored because they were expected to veto anything, so agreements were being made amongst other countries to vote around Poland.

I think it annoyed people so much that when Poland did have a legitimate grievance it was just ignored because of all the previous whinging.
Kasz 1 | 76  
7 Jun 2009 /  #3
well lest say kaczynski is way to long story to talk about guy suks big time, im ashamed that those two brothers even have voice in any non polish media... the should be banned forever from social life... some pplless island would be cool...
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
7 Jun 2009 /  #4
I don't like the non-unified (E.U.) way we are when dealing with Russian Gas.

You would never walk into a company wanting to buy something and them to start fighting amongst themselves.

But I remember when Ireland joined the E.U., it did not make much of an impact until we changed to Euro currency and it became part of daily life, then came the huge amount of road works and other infrastructure being built and we knew something was happening.

Look around Poland, huge changes are happening with E.U. aid and it is fantastic for the country.
Poland has been fighting for basic freedom for a long time, I don't think it should stop but perhaps calm down a bit?.
George8600 10 | 637  
9 Jun 2009 /  #5
I count it! Great beautiful country, nice well brought up cultured people, history rich, oh and did I mention the great culture. They have everything it means to be European!
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
9 Jun 2009 /  #6
It gets overlooked in the EU because there's too many aggressive countries. Germany, for one. When you are in a league that includes Germany, France and Great Britain, it's hard not to get overlooked. It's all about the ego of nations, ya know?
freebird 3 | 532  
9 Jun 2009 /  #7
Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored?

let's put it this way, from time to time you hear something about it and then it vanishes for a while but it's definitely not constantly present in western Europe just like it isn't in the US. It's kind of pitty as I enjoy to mess with you guys. It's so typical for Polish to get pi**ed off just about anything and this what I like about you. The World would be boring without Poles for sure.
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
9 Jun 2009 /  #8
It's so typical for Polish to get pi**ed off just about anything and this what I like about you.

Oh please. It's not about Polish getting pissed off. It's true for several nations in the EU. Britain, France and Germany run things, more or less.
freebird 3 | 532  
9 Jun 2009 /  #9
Oh please

I still like you PlasticPole :-)
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,872  
9 Jun 2009 /  #10
Mr Chirac famously said in 2003 after Poland, Hungary and the Czech Republic backed the US position "They missed a good opportunity to shut up,"

Well...he had a point, didn't he!
Bush was anti-EU, trying to split and to aggravate, Poland did fall all over itself to be a part of a wild adventure instead to align to the EU.

(And what did it got you in the end?)
Hence the disinterest later to respect polish opinon in deals with Russia also. You did what you wanted regardless of your neighbours - so do we now!

I think it annoyed people so much that when Poland did have a legitimate grievance it was just ignored because of all the previous whinging.

Exactly...if someone is used to another one screaming wildly around (often unfounded) you just tune him down (or out)!

They have everything it means to be European!

That was never in question! :)

too many aggressive countries. Germany, for one.

Oh c'mooon...we are such wussies!

France and Germany run things, more or less.

Easy rule...we are all equals but those countries who actually RUN the EU, pay for all your support and the organization just have abit more to say.

The EU will exist without Poland, but not without France or Germany...it's as easy as that!
Become a net-contributor and your voice will be heard more, proof you are committed to EUROPE (not the US)...till then...
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
9 Jun 2009 /  #11
proof you are committed to EUROPE (not the US)...till then...

BB that's just an excuse. Your country and France need to step away every once in a while and let the spotlight shine more on eastern European countries. Don't be stingy! It's got nothing to do with who supports the US and who doesn't! It's a European trend that one can spot from way back so you can't blame us! Western Europe wants everything while Eastern gets very little.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,872  
9 Jun 2009 /  #12
BB that's just an excuse.

No it isn't!
Chirac was very rude but he only told out loud what millons of Europeans were thinking.
Poland was a very new member and millions of EU support was and is going there way and at the first, best opportunity they showed the "old Europe" the finger and licked US-boots (or so it seemed).

The whole affair with the missile shield and the support for Georgia also strenghtened the image of Poland as unconditional pro US and also unconditional anti-Russia...both seen as not very committed to Europe.

No excuse at all but a nagging feeling with many Europeans!
And who will be interested to listen to someone who so blatantly shows he gives a sh'it about Europe and the EU?

Your country and France need to step away every once in a while and let the spotlight shine more on eastern European countries

To do what exactly?
Fulfilling the role of the US boot in Europes door?
Starting a war with Russia? WHAT???

Western Europe wants everything while Eastern gets very little.

Do you know how much money and support goes eastern Europes way? It's BILLIONS!
Why do you think so many Poles are now allowed to work in Great Britain???
Do you know that there is the feeling in the EU the enlargment was to much? That it endangered the EU??? That we are in a crisis BECAUSE OF YOU????

What did eastern Europe ever do for the EU???

"...get's very little."...my a*ss!
Salomon 2 | 436  
9 Jun 2009 /  #13
Poland was a very new member and millions of EU support was and is going there way and at the first, best opportunity they showed the "old Europe"

With Spain Italy ...and many other countries... but I agree that it was wrong decision.

Anny way Poland should be closer to Russians than Germans are ...

What is more Germans have tendency to point on other countries and measure their europeaness... It is old tradition and I wouldn't care to much about it. Soon after Poland being not enought German ekhmmm I wated to say European ... there can be France being not enought German ... sory I wanted to say European ... or Italy ...

everything depends form actual German need and whose voice in their opinion should be less important.

I wouldn't care to much about it.
polam 5 | 11  
9 Jun 2009 /  #14
As an American, I am constantly amazed and humored by the anti-American attitudes on this forum. Poland acts in what it considers to be its own self-interest and it is accused of being an American lackey. Germany and the rest of Europe are supposedly on a higher road!! I have to laugh!! Do you think Germany's attitude toward Russia has anything to do with natural gas? Also, is having a different policy than France and Germany automatically "anti-European?" PlasticPole is right. When France and Germany think European, what they really mean is Western European. What they really want is not the EU, but the WEU.
freebird 3 | 532  
9 Jun 2009 /  #15
As an American, I am constantly amazed and humored by the anti-American attitudes on this forum

well brother, that's how it is on this forum. Do the best out of it and lough it all off. Once you take serious, you'll go nuts, lol.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,542  
9 Jun 2009 /  #16
What about Norway?! Did we have a pope? NO!
Did we have a worker wich got fameous by saying we want change!? NO

We don't have anything then oil! When it's gone wir gonna be like a pulverized country!
We are nothing! And you worry about Poland pff
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595  
9 Jun 2009 /  #17
I get the feeling that EU listens more to Poland than to the small Western European countries. Poland is becoming a more and more important player in EU. I guess there are still some prejudices about Eastern European countries in WE, but they are decreasing for every year. And it's obvious that Poland is becoming more and more westernized.
Switek - | 59  
9 Jun 2009 /  #18
Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored?

What?

The catch is it what are your expectations...

The problem is some Poles has enhanced inferiority complex what made his perception unbalanced... and there are some politicians who use it to say untrue stories about how meaning of Poland is purposely decreased...
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,872  
9 Jun 2009 /  #19
Poland acts in what it considers to be its own self-interest

The EU is bigger than that...if they don't want to commit themselves they should have stayed out of it then.

Who knows...the EU as it is now may become a failure because of the enlargement, because of to many of those tiny loudmouthes who only demand but never give...it may very well be that the big ones leave the useless but quarrelsome baggage behind and go it alone.

Then Poland can act in his own self-interest all it wants (and pay for it too).

Anny way Poland should be closer to Russians than Germans are ...

Why can't we both be close to Russia? :):):)
polam 5 | 11  
9 Jun 2009 /  #20
it may very well be that the big ones leave the useless baggage behind and go it alone.

"Useless baggage???" This is exactly the attitude which will be the cause of the EU failing. Frankly, you guys got a lot farther than I ever expected, but I think the wave has crested.
Salomon 2 | 436  
9 Jun 2009 /  #21
Poland this year will become 6th the biggest economy in EU. Polish role is bigger and bigger and will be bigger.

Bratwurst accept reality.

As to the money EU earned huge money on Polish market. No merci here.... as to Germans only Germans and Austrians haven't opened market for Polish workers .... so as to Bratwurst opinons ... nothing new.

I
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
9 Jun 2009 /  #22
The EU is bigger than that...they should have stayed out of it then.

They should act in their own self interest. BB you are out of touch with reality. You want to take the good and turn it into some kind of mediocre acceptance and apathy. It's time for Germany and France to give Eastern Europe their turn. You guys will learn to share some, eh, BB?
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,872  
9 Jun 2009 /  #23
Bratwurst accept reality.

Then share the burden and all are happy, till then you are only loudmouths!
Accept that too!

It's time for Germany and France to give Eastern Europe their turn.

To do what???

The "big bad West" should pay but have no say???
You've got to be kidding!

And where was polish "self-interest" as they couldn't wait to join the Bushies in some adventure in some god forsaken country???
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
9 Jun 2009 /  #24
Think of it this way, BB. If everyone in Europe prospers Europe will be stronger and more stable. It's in your best interest that everyone in Europe share in this prosperity.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,872  
9 Jun 2009 /  #25
That's why the EU was founded..that's the reason for all that, you don't have to lecture me on that!
PlasticPole 7 | 2,649  
9 Jun 2009 /  #26
It's an exciting time for Eastern Europe, and everyone else there too. It will be interesting to see how it looks in 20 years. I bet everyone will be happier too.
Ironside 48 | 9,888  
9 Jun 2009 /  #27
As an American, I am constantly amazed and humored by the anti-American attitudes on this forum.

From my point of view you are too sensitive, You cannot be major player in the World politics and get only applause.
Other you seems to have overbuild sense of identification with federal government - if someone criticizes USA government it doesn't mean he hates Americans!

The EU is bigger than that...if they don't want to commit themselves they should have stayed out of it then.

Its rubbish anyway - organization has to change to survive.
As for subject of this thread :
Both it counts because of being large marked, and is ignored because of its economy and politicians.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,872  
9 Jun 2009 /  #28
organization has to change to survive.

If the EU changes so much as to abandon their founding principles we could abandon it alltogether.
But to many people in Europe don't want that...I rather expect a split and a new founding of a "core" EU with a constitution/treaty from the beginning which all have to agree with first BEFORE becoming a member.
Salomon 2 | 436  
9 Jun 2009 /  #29
And where was polish "self-interest" as they couldn't wait to join the Bushies in some adventure in some god forsaken country???

I haven't heard such arumentation for Spanish, Italian or British people who joined this crusaide.
OP pawian 161 | 9,971  
9 Jun 2009 /  #30
What did eastern Europe ever do for the EU???

Quite a lot. We threw off communism so it was possible for Germans to unite. It is true that currently there are still too many Homo Sovieticus Germans in ex-East Germany and they slow down the country, but in 30 years` time they will die out and Germany will be great again. :):):):):):)

Besides, don`t complain about German spendings on Eastern Europe. If we still had the Cold War, you would spend much more.

Poland acts in what it considers to be its own self-interest and it is accused of being an American lackey. Germany and the rest of Europe are supposedly on a higher road!!

Yes, gratitude is considerd sth obsolete in politics and diplomacy. Unfortunately. For decades Americans protected Western Europe against the Red threat. Without American military umbrella Germany and France would have been invaded and conquered after a week by Soviet tanks.

Poles have always realised this truth about American importance in Europe and that is why they offered support to Americans in Iraq.

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