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Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored?


Svenski 1 | 159  
9 Jun 2009 /  #61
I guess there are still some prejudices about Eastern European countries in WE

yup...

look at the sign in this pic
thelocal.de/politics/20090609-19809.html
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
9 Jun 2009 /  #62
It is so called 'Walesism' :))

Haha... Yeah, but I do believe it to be true. We are to big of a country to be neglected, like Lithuania for example, but cannot be counted on par with the big shots of EU, like Germany, France and GB.
OP pawian 176 | 15,392  
9 Jun 2009 /  #63
yup... look at the sign in this pic

East Germans` nostalgia for totalitarian communism transformed into the idea of NPD, a neo fascist party.
According to the magazine, the party has taken hold in the eastern parts of the country after municipal polls in seven states. There will now be NPD politicians on councils in Leipzig, Dresden, Rostock, and Erfurt.

Haha... We are to big of a country to be neglected, like Lithuania for example, but cannot be counted on par with the big shots of EU, like Germany, France and GB.

It wholly depends on our own effort and energy.

When Jerzy Buzek becomes the head of the European Parliament (with French and German support) , I will be able to give you one more example of appreciation. But now it is still too early.... That is why, only a small article for the time being....

The Pole Jerzy Buzek and Italian Mario Mauro will fight it out to be the EPP candidate to head the European Parliament.
Buzek is a former Polish prime minister (1997-2001) and MEP since 2004. His name has been floated for over a year now. Only a few weeks ago it seemed he would be the obvious choice of the Christian Democrats (EPP), the largest political group in the Parliament. Two reasons for this: 1. he is a heavyweight politician and well respected parlamentarian; 2. there will be several big jobs to be handed out in the EU soon and most seem to agree at least one has to go to the new member states, which are approaching 5 years in the EU.

Salomon 2 | 436  
9 Jun 2009 /  #64
Besides political trades. Jerzy Buzek is very hard working person. If I remmeber it well he was one of the most hard working Polish MPs in Europarlament ...
lesser 4 | 1,311  
9 Jun 2009 /  #65
How it was estimated?
OP pawian 176 | 15,392  
9 Jun 2009 /  #66
Come on, just look at the photos.

And here:

radiorodzina.pl/uploads/news/id70/buzek_jerzy.jpg

gover.pl/userfiles/publikacje/buzek_6-large.jpg

What else do you need???

gover.pl/userfiles/publikacje/jerzy_buzek-large.jpg
lesser 4 | 1,311  
9 Jun 2009 /  #67
What else do you need???

If he just write nonsensical projects and talk BS, this is not enough.

I still remember the times when he was Polish PM, after this period his party AWS failed to win any seats in the next parliament. Speak for itself.
OP pawian 176 | 15,392  
9 Jun 2009 /  #68
Oh, come on. Even PiS supports Buzek for a great cause. :):):):)

Stop putting yourself down, as Solomon says. :):):):):)
lesser 4 | 1,311  
10 Jun 2009 /  #69
Oh, come on.

No, this is true. This was the biggest election failure in the history of Polish political parties. Polish voters firstly made AWS the biggest party only to kick them out of parliament four years later. Don't you remember?

Even PiS supports Buzek for a great cause. :):):):)

What kind of great cause it is. Please enlighten me? :)

Stop putting yourself down, as Solomon says. :):):):):)

Don't worry I keep my head high. :)
GermanMan - | 6  
10 Jun 2009 /  #70
Hello, kind neighbors! First of all: I like Poland. I like the nature, the culture and the friendly people. My parents went on vacation in Poland some times and were really happy there.

Second: Yes, I indeed do believe that Poland generally acts like an "up-growing child" that suddenly realizes after its first day in highschool, that there are some much larger, much richer and much more important guys in school, than it self.

I think that experience is part of growing up: realizing, that others DO mock you, that others DO make fun of you, that other DON'T pay attention at all at you, that others laugh at you...JUST LIKE THE FIRST DAY IN HIGHSCHOOL. But you are just as much important as the others - because you are part of that class, of that school. And perhaps after some time some other class member starts liking you?

Rule number one in this "crazy highschool" called EU is: GDP matters - that means: economic power, MONEY is important. Nothing more.

That can be condemned - you may say:"What about culture? What about our role in history?"

Well, coming to that, ITALY should be the country crying loudest with his Roman Empire - or France, with all its culture.

But the EU is one mean, ungrateful thing where NEARLY everything is about money.

Take a look at the French: many, many countries make horrible jokes about France. England hates them, the USA hates them. Germany sometimes laughs about the French.

So?
I tell you what: France doesn't give a **** about the other countries! They are relaxed, doing their own thing...knowing what they have achieved and what they are able to do.

And after all those horrible jokes and mocking Germany is nevertheless a friend of France and we can meet on vacation and have some wonderful time together (before we start to make ugly jokes about each other again!)

Or take Italy: a nearly bankrupt country the western world more or less doesn't care about at all. There are so many ugly jokes about Italian people. Their President is one running joke. The Italian people KNOW how the world thinks about them...AND THEY DON'T care! Because the don't DEFINE themselves through the "respect" others are granting them! That is another thing: demanding RESPECT is something no western country would do. Because being a "grown-up" democratic country means being relaxed and self conscious about the things one can do and one CAN'T do, too!.

Speaking for Germany: we do know we will never ever have he financial power of the USA, China or in the coming years India. And we don't have a problem with that - as long as "our house" - meaning the interior social stability - is working.

Perhaps Italy sometimes DREAMS about being an important country again - but for what reason? No Italian citizen REALLY pays attention about the image of their country: solving the internal problems comes first. Who cares about what Germany, the French, England or the rest of the world thinks about Italy?

And take a look at the USA: Germany owes the USA EVERYTHING coming to the years after WW2. And what did we give the USA under Bush? Pure HATE. Just like the French. Or any other western country that really believed in the human rights and the falsehood of the Iraki war.

And the USA? They didn't care! "That is OLD Europe!" You remember those words?

So my conclusion: laugh about your country - like every western country does! - Laugh about your own politicians (or even hate them - like the Germans do hate their own politicians!) - like every western country does! Be happy when NO ONE really cares about you because that puts you out of focus (like Spain and the problem with the Basks). Or be proud if you having achieved something nice and your neighbors stop laughing about you just for some seconds in history (perhaps after winning the FIFA worldcup).

Look: I KNOW that as a German on vacation (for example) the French sometimes make jokes about us. So do we about the French! - just like the rest of the world!! I know that the English still think we are all Nazis - but we don't care! We say: "Hello!" and drink some beer with the English and everything is fine again. And the English HATE the French - and the French HATE the English. But that "hate" is in one family-like matter, nothing really serious...and no one really cares about that.

Or Holland: BOY !!!- what a relationship to Holland Germany has! All those jokes and disrespectful stuff! But it is like a family: at the end of the day Holland is our brother and we can sing and laugh TOGETHER without being REALLY angry about those really harsh jokes.

Let me say: welcome, to the free and sometimes crazy western world - where everybody doesn't give a thing about the achievements of the other and plays dirty jokes about the other country and people...just like in one big, big family. But we are STILL one family. And just like in one family the guy who brings in most of the money has the last word to speak.

And that is maybe China or the USA on global scale and at the moment Germany in the EU - which doesn't prevent the rest of Europe to make some ugly jokes about Germany or (like England) saying (and BELIEVE!) that ALL of us are still Nazis. And we don't care - because that is the way it ALWAYS WAS in the past 40 years...THAT is Europe...one thing you should laugh about!

Not paying attention about what the other EU countries think about you is what makes you a TRUE EU member! Yes, that is one paradox thing ;).

Cheers mates!
Wroclaw Boy  
10 Jun 2009 /  #71
Ahh how refreshing another German on the forum, im assuming you know of the sole German warrior here Bratwurst Boy? He does a fantastic job of representing his country some times a little to efficient but hey thats Germans for you.

I hope to read your posts a bit more often, the above was certainly an interesting read.

I know that the English still think we are all Nazis

Im English and I dont, many do though i'll give you that.

WB
GermanMan - | 6  
10 Jun 2009 /  #72
Thanks, mate! English football is the best! And the beer...:)
Torq  
10 Jun 2009 /  #73

That's a quality first post, mate!

I hope we'll see more of them coming. Welcome to the forum!
Wroclaw Boy  
10 Jun 2009 /  #74
English football is the best!

Cars used to be pretty good aswell till the fat cats sold out to Germany, India USA and the rest.

I was commenting the other night to friends that the Germans are to proud to sell their leading brands in order to make fast cash, even if it is 100's of millions.

Britian has too many major issues at the moment. Its certainly not the country it once was.

I'll have to start a thread soon about England and the shite storm its in, ive recently had family and friends stay and all they did was moan and groan about the state of England.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
10 Jun 2009 /  #75
GermanMan have a point. I may not agree about some conclusions that he made but still there is something in the air over Poland. I blame mainly so called leftist intellectuals who to the large extend control media outlets in Poland. Those people are as they would say 'ashamed' of status quo in this country and they are responsible for starting all this craziness with "what Europe think?". Ordinary people here don't realize that western societies hardly represent any higher level. They don't realize that political establishment over there is not much better and in some cases even worse than Polish.
OP pawian 176 | 15,392  
10 Jun 2009 /  #76
I blame mainly so called leftist intellectuals who to the large extend control media outlets in Poland. Those people are as they would say 'ashamed' of status quo in this country and they are responsible for starting all this craziness with "what Europe think?".

Not only leftist guys. When TV belonged to PiS, the atmosphere was the same. Anything special happened in Poland and the evening news presented opinions of important Western Europeans on Polish affairs. The question: What Europe think? mattered a lot. It was really ridiculous.

I must say it has stopped or been reduced substantially recently. It looks like Poles are slowly getting rid of their complexes. :):):):)

The return of Poland to Europe started not in 1989, but in 1988. Krzysztof Kieśłowski won the first award for his film Short Film about Killing. During the ceremony he said the following:

Wim Wenders: I met Krzysztof for the very first time in my life in 1988. I had never seen him, I must admit, only knew one film, SHORT FILM ABOUT KILLING. And that became the very first film that won the very first European Film Award. It was the first time we did it and he went on stage and the first line I heard him say was, 'I hope Poland is actually part of Europe'. And that left a deep impression on me because all of a sudden that award had a different necessity than before. It was not just an award, out of a sudden it was important and necessary.

Short film about killing: the scene of execution of a young murderer. Quite disgusting, the times when Poland used death penalty.
youtube.com/watch?v=LzNCT843isg&feature=related
grethomory 1 | 154  
11 Jun 2009 /  #77
although I am in America and live with a Polish guy and I have alot of Polish friends...I don't feel Europe has forgotten Poland in the least bit.
welshguyinpola 23 | 463  
11 Jun 2009 /  #78
Oh please shut up miss America, how can u feel you are qualified to comment on this just cos u know a few Polish people. Surprised u havent said ur 1/25 polish.
Wroclaw Boy  
11 Jun 2009 /  #79
although I am in America and live with a Polish guy and I have alot of Polish friends...I don't feel Europe has forgotten Poland in the least bit.

This post deserves a certain level of hostility, although grethomory is only commenting on what she knows. If what she knows is good or bad we need to respect her views period. She represents her boyfrined and his friends.
GermanMan - | 6  
11 Jun 2009 /  #80
lesser

Exactly: Look at England and the political scandal going on there. Those immoral standards the politicians showed by using tax money to buy f.e. porn movies for private use or other useless things, do in fact NOT corrupt the reputation of England - or Great Britain as one NATION, but only affects the view at the Labour party and "the politicians" as a typical profession with lots of corruption no matter in what country you are.

So the English will surely NOT feel any anger if - let say - Germany would make some jokes about the inferiority of the English politicians. They would perhaps say: "You are 100% right!" and go on with their business.

Or look for example at the good old "Monty Python" comedy crew as one of the most prominent CULTURAL British export worldwide who ironically spoof about ANYTHING that cold be described as "typically British culture" and thereby created another cultural aspect that ADDED something to the respect the world is giving Great Britain now...I do believe by the way that the German lack of self-humor is one big debility we have.

No, I am sure that the western political professionals are in no way better than any other politicians at all - and the lack of moral standards and cultural degeneration is one global development. Far from it: I think Poland do have some new and fresh seriousness when it comes to political things most western states have long lost or put beside until it seems to be really necessary to get political active again - like it was viewable in the USA with the Obama phenomenon.

Look at the EU-voting where we roughly had a 40% attendance in Germany which is by the way another typical aspect of an old democracy: the RIGHT for NOT voting is perhaps THE MOST important right coming to democracy, because it is somehow a democratic way to criticize or even REJECT democracy! Or in other words: the freedom NOT to care at all is the biggest freedom to care for.

Conclusion: Poland is one great cultural country with one of the strongest political engaged people in the world. We haven't forget Solidarność at all in Germany - but well...as I said: there are more important things right now than to think about the past.

And then there is the typical European ignorance again...most ppl. in Europe f.e. doesn't even care about world war 2 anymore - unlike the USA and Poland, where the emotional involvement is still much stronger. Europe moved on in that way because France and Germany for example, but also England and Russia realized that the economic strength and friendship can only benefit those countries so they put beside for example the "Erbfeindschaft" that was vital for over 400 years between France and Germany. I can remember my first visit in France in the early 80ies when many French ppl. still spit right in front of me when they heard me talk in German. Those days are 100% gone now - in less than 20 years. And it was ONLY possible, because we both decided to simply put those things aside about world war 2 (not FORGET) - and France had to suffer massively under the Germans, too. Love and friendship can only grow, if you are able to forget the bitter past and move on - IF you WISH to have love and friendship. That is one decision that must be made at some point. France, Russia, Great Britain, Holland, Norway...they could put MILLIONS of things into account to still hate Germany. But when I am walking to the streets of Hamburg these days and see hundreds of Russians buying very expensive things in our French designer stores and having some parties together with us in our clubs I feel great that they finally put aside that Germany actually killed 20 millions of their sons in a war that is 60 years gone now (which is not as long as it sounds)..as horrible and sad it really is.

Yes, Europe has forgotten Poland's role in the fall of the Iron Curtain very badly!!!

But Europe has ALSO 100% forgotten the role of Hungary in the fall of he Iron Curtain!

And I tell you what: WESTERN Germany has TOTALLY forgotten the roll of the Eastern German brave people, all of the DEATHS, the torture of them, the role of the church and all the great and peaceful things happening in the years before eastern Germany was finally free!!!!

Believe it or not: about 40% of German children DOESN'T EVEN KNOW ANYMORE that there was one eastern and western part of Germany! Nobody really cares about that anymore. We do care about General Motors, AIG, DEUTSCHE BANK, Porsche, VW, BWM and all those things...but history is totally forgotten. Same in England, France, Holland, Belgium, Austria...etc.

Perhaps that may explain to you, dear Polish people, why western Europe is always so MASSIVELY shocked - and yes, we ARE shocked! - when Poland comes with some historical facts into the debate...we don't do that anymore since the middle of the 70ies - early 80ies.

Conclusion: Ignorance is one common state in the EU.

And by the way: the world has forgotten George Bush really quickly, too - don't you think? But the USA is still the USA...funny, ain't it?
Wroclaw Boy  
11 Jun 2009 /  #81
And by the way: the world has forgotten George Bush really quickly, too - don't you think?

Many sweeping generalisations there GermanMan none founded by any evidence other then what you seem to percieve. We all have opinions and most of us believe them to be correct but when you really get down to brass tacks and out of your own little world far to often you discover youre totally wrong.

Within 4 posts you appear to have nailed so many important issues, and are trying to pass your knowledge onto others. Some may be accurate but many are nothing other than German fantasies and opinions probably shared by people from your culture not on the ground actual observations.

For me at the moment you come accross as a polotician rallying some kind of anti- establishment cause.

And by the way: the world has forgotten George Bush really quickly, too - don't you think? But the USA is still the USA...funny, ain't it?

Thats a sweeping generalisation if ive ever heard one. One which is the product of two things, meida or drawing your own conclusions. Bush will go down in history as the worst president of the US ever. The instigator of the main Iraq war, a total baffoon leading the worlds most powerful country, where the hell did you get the notion that hes forgotton from?
GermanMan - | 6  
11 Jun 2009 /  #82
Really quick and to make it clear: I DON'T think that this ignorance is a good thing.
I THINK that there should be a time to remember. And the Polish role to actually FREE THE WORLD is bitterly ignored in a way.

But that is simply the way it is!
It is not meant as an insult!!!

So as a conclusion western Europe DOESN'T UNDERSTAND when Poland demands some respect for historical events - we simply don't have that historically perspective anymore (as I explained: we HAD TO GET RID OF the historical perspective to move on as a unity at some point).

As I said: even Germany itself has totally forgotten about our OWN "heroes" in 1989 finally ending the SED and Stasi. There is no monument about that anywhere. We don't even have a movie about that. Only one day without work - but nobody cares about that anymore.

More than that: most of the young ppl. don't even know about the DDR (eastern Germany) anymore.

History is less and less important in the EU (contrary to the Arabic countries by the way...think about that)
scrappleton - | 829  
11 Jun 2009 /  #83
GermanMan

Bratwurst dialing in from the office.
GermanMan - | 6  
11 Jun 2009 /  #84
Exuse me; I don't want to insult anyone here. I am really sorry if I did!!!

No, I mean: of COURSE the world has NOT forgotten about George Bush, and you are totally right he will go down in history as the worst president.

I have to replace "forget" with "put aside" and "move on" without thinking about the past.

I wanted to express that we don't hold Bush against the USA anymore and moved on. History is history. There is Obama now and the world will quickly put aside about the things that happened.
Wroclaw Boy  
11 Jun 2009 /  #85
And the Polish role to actually FREE THE WORLD is bitterly ignored in a way.

Whaat the foooooooooooooccckkkkkkkkkkkkkk, you started talking sense with your first post mate.

As I said: even Germany itself has totally forgotten about our OWN "heroes" in 1989 finally ending the SED and Stasi. There is no monument about that anywhere. We don't even have a movie about that. Only one day without work - but nobody cares about that anymore.

Dude have you just necked a bottle of whiskey between posts 1 and 5?
freebird 3 | 532  
11 Jun 2009 /  #86
Bush will go down in history as the worst president of the US ever

wait, Obama ain't done yet, lol
Wroclaw Boy  
11 Jun 2009 /  #87
come on it couldnt be worse. Obamas the man, you should be proud of him. I would, what a leader. Us of A leadres of the freeworld? the Europeans are just loving Obama. I cant understand the distaste from US citiznes it reallys shows the US as a great country, black presidnet and all that. Talk him down=damage the constitution. not good.....
scrappleton - | 829  
11 Jun 2009 /  #88
come on it couldnt be worse.

Sure it could be worse. Obama is doing a pretty good job. Probably not the second coming of JC though.

Us of A leadres of the freeworld?

Somebody else can have that job - What a worthless pain in the ass.
GermanMan - | 6  
11 Jun 2009 /  #89
Well, mate, I don't know what your problem is, but perhaps I will get it at some point.
Some more detailed feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Let me put in in some simple words:

1.) Germany doesn't give a **** about the re-union 20 years ago. There will be some more or less forced celebrations with some politicians - that's it. I can only invite you to come here and have a look around: nobody cares. Really.

And on the other hand we have that funny Polish reaction about a EU video about the fall of the Iron Curtain that REALLY nobody cares about - but Mr. Jan Tombinski.

We only had a hand full of newspaper articles about that "so important video" here in Germany.

welt.de/politik/article3761459/EU-Video-zum-Mauerfall-Jubilaeum-erzuernt-die-Polen.html

I can only invite you to come to Germany and talk with the ppl. about that "great historical event in 1989" - you may get one big yaaaawwn.

Arcandor, Daimler, Deutsche Bank: those things are in the focus of the ppl.and the economic development - nearly nothing else.

I repeat: Nearly nobody cares about history here in Western Europe.

PS: that bottle of Whiskey sounds like a good idea ;)
Wroclaw Boy  
11 Jun 2009 /  #90
Well, mate, I don't know what your problem is, but perhaps I will get it at some point.

Hey Gerry we dont know who youre talking to. Highlight the text youre replying to then hit quote at the bottom and youll find somthing like this:

Germany

Kurwa

Its quite simple you see buddy.

I repeat: Nearly nobody cares about history here in Western Europe.

STOP with those sweeping generalisations or me and you are going to fall out rather quickly. you get me?

Actually forget that threat stick around this will be interesting.

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