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Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored?


Bratwurst Boy 11 | 10,672  
9 Jun 2009 /  #31
We threw off communism so it was possible for Germans to unite.

Oh please...if it had been in polish hands why didn't you do it earlier??? Much earlier?
Without the perestroika in Russia the Soviet Empire would still be existent.

Poles have always realised this truth about American importance in Europe and that is why they offered support to Americans in Iraq.

Maybe you better apply for membership in the USofA as 52 country!
We would be all better off...
Ironside 50 | 11,087  
9 Jun 2009 /  #32
But to many people in Europe don't want that...I rather expect a split and a new founding of a "core" EU with a constitution/treaty from the beginning which all have to agree first.

Problem with EU is that that prosperity is not spread evenly but costs are paid equally, if it will no change - your prediction may became true!

my solution - to work on the new constitution, openly ....not behind closed door!

Poles have always realised this truth about American importance in Europe and that is why they offered support to Americans in Iraq.

Hope it was so rational as you put it!
Anyway we could not afford it - too expensive !
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 10,672  
9 Jun 2009 /  #33
my solution - to work on the new constitution, openly ....not behind closed door!

Everybody could read it...but actually I know of nobody (also not those who are against it) who ever did!
[i]
Salomon 2 | 436  
9 Jun 2009 /  #34
I don't understand how Germany can talk about anny common line when they create Nord Stream.

Anny way. Irak was mistake... for much different reasons. Poland believed in american proves when it came to WMD ... and they were false (from the begining).
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 10,672  
9 Jun 2009 /  #35
I don't understand how Germany can talk about anny common line when they create Nord Stream.

What? You want to be cozy with Russia and we want good business with them.
What's your problem??? :)

(At least the Russians didn't ask Germans to join them in Chechnia or Georgia for some game of paintball)
Ironside 50 | 11,087  
9 Jun 2009 /  #36
Everybody could read it...but actually I know of nobody (also not those who are against it) who ever did!

new and shorter much shorter)))))
OP pawian 176 | 15,392  
9 Jun 2009 /  #37
More examples of appreciation soon.

I said I would only post about appreciation. But it seems I need to post both sides.

1. Example of disregard (apparent)

Sarkozy has failed to invite Poland's head of state to this year's Normandy (D-Day) landing celebration despite Poland's participation in that offensive with Gen. Maczek's Mechanised unit.

https://polishforums.com/archives/2005-2009/news/french-snub-war-effort-35529/

I wouldn`t really view it as a national issue. Rather private animosities between leaders of two countries: Sarkozy is pissed off at Kaczyński because the latter didn`t sign the Lisbon Treaty while France was heading the EUnion last year. And it was Kaczyński who had negotiated the treaty together with Sarkozy and promised to sign it, but failed.

If I were Sarkozy, I also wouldn`t invite Kaczyński, a liar and conman! :):):):)

2. Example of disregard (real)

Video clip produced by the European Commission on the occasion of the 20th anniversary of the fall of Communism, does not show any pictures of the legendary Polish 'Solidarity' freedom movement, which cracked the Soviet dictatorship in Eastern Europe.

Instead, it focuses on the fall of Berlin wall, and briefly reviews events in other countries. Poland appears in the clip only for several seconds. We can see a piece of original TV footage, featuring Wojciech Jaruzelski proclaiming the martial law in 1981. The rest is footage from the re-enactment of historical events, staged in 1990s at the earliest, as the only banner captured on the tape is one with the logo of "Gazeta Polska" newspaper, established in 1993.


More:
polskieradio.pl/thenews/news/artykul108326_freedom_without_solidarity.html
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8057347.stm

However, after a brawl following the release, with the involvement of Polish politicians and media, it was slightly corrected according to Polish expectations.
According to the Chair of the Polish Committee for European Integration, Mikolaj Dowgielewicz, this is like showing France's history with no mention of the French Revolution".

3. Appreciation:

EC to make changes to 1989 film
2009-05-18, 08:00
The European Commissioned has informed that they will be making changes to a short film that fails to record Poland's historic role in ending communism in 1989.

Following an official complaint from Poland an EC spokesman said that the film makers never had the intention to neglect Poland's historic role in bringing communism to its knees.


poland.pl/news/article,EC_to_make_changes_to_1989_film,id,377928.htm
Salomon 2 | 436  
9 Jun 2009 /  #38
What? You want to be cozy with Russia and we want good business with them.What's your problem??? :)(At least the Russians didn't ask Germans to join them in Chechnia or Georgia for some game of paintball)

Europe is weak and other power which uses its members to prove its weakness is Russia. There is no doubt why this part of europe looks on USA when it comes to security...

Germany alone is just regional power.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 10,672  
9 Jun 2009 /  #39
Europe is weak and other world power which uses its members to prove its weakness is Russia.

No, it was the US under Bush.
He showed how easy it was to crack the EU and bribe some members to do as THEY want, wasn't it...
Now that Obama actually laid the missile shield on ice but there is no doubt that Poland would have let the US did build that thing on their soil too...

Any organization is only so strong as it's weakest link Lukasz, and that is not Germany!

Germany alone is just regional power.

And?
OP pawian 176 | 15,392  
9 Jun 2009 /  #40
I have a dilemma. How to consider this act? Is it appreciation or disregard?

Spaniards call Kaczynski evil
22.05.2009
Spanish socialists claim that Poland's President Lech Kaczynski is one of the most evil politicians in the world and Poles are over-zealous Catholics.
Running up to the European Parliament elections, the Socialists' Party of Catalonia (PSC) has released a poster showing top right-wing politicians from Europe and the US . It depicts former president of France Jacques Chirac, former president of the US George Bush, former PM of Spain Jose Maria Aznar, PM of Italy Silvio Berlusconi and president of Poland Lech Kaczynski.


freerepublic.com/focus/news/2256538/posts
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 10,672  
9 Jun 2009 /  #41
Well...you got talked about instead of ignored...:)
OP pawian 176 | 15,392  
9 Jun 2009 /  #42
Appreciation

During Berlin Wall Collapse Celebration in November a happening involving 1000 domino dice will take place. The first two dice will present Polish symbols: Solidarity, worker resembling Walęsa and the Pope.

Oh, I forgot about Poland and Ukraine chosen as organizers of Euro 2012.
Torq  
9 Jun 2009 /  #43
Lech Kaczynski is one of the most evil politicians in the world (...)

LOL

I'm not a great admirer of Kaczynski, but comments like this allow me
to feel some sympathy for the man :)

(...) and Poles are over-zealous Catholics

He he - yes we ARE...

...and there's absolutely feckall those lefty twats can do about it :D
Ironside 50 | 11,087  
9 Jun 2009 /  #44
Harry Lech Kaczynski is one of the most evil politicians in the world (...)

[/quote]

Yes he is ......and Polish government should sold tickets if anyone want to see him .....
Torq  
9 Jun 2009 /  #45
Remove my name from the quote, Iron - I didn't say that! :)

EDIT:
Thank you :)
OP pawian 176 | 15,392  
9 Jun 2009 /  #46
See??? :)

Tak, teraz widzę. :):):)

Disregard

We have lost nothing!
The Nord Stream is underway and I have heard NOTHING so far which will endanger the build...get used to it!

A few Western countries cooperate with Russia to build a gas pipe despite Poland`s and a few others` objections.
Salomon 2 | 436  
9 Jun 2009 /  #47
No, it was the US under Bush.He showed how easy it was to crack the EU and bribe some members to do as THEY want, wasn't it...Now that Obama actually laid the missile shield on ice but there is no doubt that Poland would have let the US did build that thing on their soil too...Any organization is only so strong as it's weakest link Lukasz, and that is not Germany!

First off all Poland wasn't bribed. It was rather help like ... "our frends need help !"

Secndly Poland is one of the most pro-EU countries so it is not bad will.

Last point is that Nord Stream isn't project which brings trust and understanding in region.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
9 Jun 2009 /  #48
I just spotted that you quoted part of my post at the beginning. It is definitely not inferiority complex on my side. I don't identify myself with this state, I truly hate it. Although I try to control my emotions commenting political affairs I don't deny that by mocking something hated I feel a bit of satisfaction. (natural human instinct!)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
9 Jun 2009 /  #49
Reading posts in the forum I constantly come across contradicting voices of members. Some claim Poland is ignored by Europe, others maintain it is already or going to be an important player soon.

Why do you treat the two as contradictory? Western Europe does not want Poland as an equal for multiple reasons, cheap labor, weak economy that would allow political dominance.

We're supposed to be a cow that Western Europe would milk for labor force and economic opportunities but our political presence is already significantly above our economic capacity.

We have a far more disciplined workforce than any of the Western states thats held back by stagnant politics and beaurocracy, both holdouts are by their nature temporary.
Salomon 2 | 436  
9 Jun 2009 /  #50
A few Western countries cooperate with Russia to build a gas pipe despite Poland`s and a few others` objections.

Oh my God he said something logical instead of puting himself down

btw Poland this year will be 6th the larges economy in Europe...
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
9 Jun 2009 /  #51
I would say Poland is too significant to be insignificant and too insignificant to be significant.

Does that make any sense to you lot? :)
OP pawian 176 | 15,392  
9 Jun 2009 /  #52
Oh my God he said something logical instead of puting himself down

I must disappoint you, I am afraid. I am for the pipe and for Poland joining it!! :):):):)

Am I putting myself down???? :):):):)
Torq  
9 Jun 2009 /  #53
our political presence is already significantly above our economic capacity.

The Polish economy has been ranked as 7th largest in the European Union:

polishmarket.com.pl/documen/:19987,Poland+is+EUs+7th+largest+economy.html

We have 6th largest population and 4th largest territory in the EU.

If we divide EU into 4 leagues - we're still comfortably in the first league
as regards economy, population and territory so I don't think our political
presence is above our improtance in the EU.
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
9 Jun 2009 /  #54
No, it was the US under Bush.
He showed how easy it was to crack the EU and bribe some members to do as THEY want, wasn't it...

But you do know that at the time of the invasion on Iraq Poland was not a member of EU right?
OP pawian 176 | 15,392  
9 Jun 2009 /  #55
We still need to improve our assets counted per head. :):):):)
Salomon 2 | 436  
9 Jun 2009 /  #56
Oh my God he said something logical instead of puting himself down

I was so wrong I was so wrong :)))))))
OP pawian 176 | 15,392  
9 Jun 2009 /  #57
Yes. It reminds me of what Bismarck said: Russia is never so strong or so weak as it seems. :):):):)
Torq  
9 Jun 2009 /  #58
We still need to improve our assest counted per head. :):):):)

It's only a question of time, my friend, and will happen eventually
as we are hard-working, resourceful and smart people.

Oh, I forgot to add - we're also very modest :)
lesser 4 | 1,311  
9 Jun 2009 /  #59
It is so called 'Walesism' :))
OP pawian 176 | 15,392  
9 Jun 2009 /  #60
It's only a question of time, my friend, and will happen eventually
as we are hard-working, resourceful and smart people.

Yes, I believe it too. Poles are much better and further in building an efficient capitalist economy than East Germans.

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