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Poland Betrayed in WW2


Seanus 15 | 19669  
9 Jan 2009 /  #211
Eh, no!! Britain saw, FINALLY, what Hitler was doing. They didn't intervene to help Poland at all. They got involved before Hitler started slipping through the gears into full flow. They did it to save their own bacon. Churchill was all about the glory!! One more occasion to show Rule Brittania. Not for altruistic purposes :(
ArcticPaul 38 | 233  
9 Jan 2009 /  #212
In the top right of the screen there is a search facility.

I think this may have been covered before

I want to read the opinions of fellow forum members

My Great Uncle was POW of the Japanese in Singapore and one thing that was certain to cause anger were news stories concerning the modern Japanese whitewash of their historic war crimes.

The idea that most Japs under 40 knew nothing about their countries inhuman treatment of others in WW2, that Jap schools were ordered NOT to teach about it always struck me as disgusting.

Now I discover a similar thing has been happening in my education.
Land of hope and glory defending the underdogs, moral high-ground... only nation to stand up to Hitler from '39 to '42 etc....

I want to hear views, opinions and suggestions.
And if someone suggests I do some research I expect something a little more specific than the location of most PC's search facility.

And if you've already read topics that have been covered before you can simply refrain from reading them agaun.
Unless, of course, this forum is being run for you and only you?
szkotja2007 27 | 1498  
9 Jan 2009 /  #213
this forum is being run for you and only you?

Yep, I shifted your thread :-)
ArcticPaul 38 | 233  
12 Jan 2009 /  #214
if england didnt come charging to the rescue your name would probably be klaus or franz or ermintrude or something like that

I HATE THIS KIND OF STATEMENT.
and the thread that my enquiry was merged with is full of such statements.
Very little information about the actual events, promises, treaty's.....

I really want to hear opinions without the thread being accusations and insults.

Afterall it's a few generations ago that these events took place so no one under 80yrs old can be held responsible.
PolskaMan 2 | 147  
12 Jan 2009 /  #215
BubbaWoo:
if england didnt come charging to the rescue your name would probably be klaus or franz or ermintrude or something like that

How in fact did they rescue us?
ArcticPaul 38 | 233  
12 Jan 2009 /  #217
How in fact did they rescue us?

In UK we get a very limited, very one sided story concerning our entry into WW2
We are taught that Hitler invaded Poland so we declared war on Germany.

It all sounds very noble. 'The British. Defenders of our oppressed Polish cousins'.

I read lots of history BUT I have never read anything about this time and these events.

So far this thread as contained no useful info or opinions and it would be great if the Polish view of these events could be contributed.

It is not antagonistic. Just because I'm a Brit doesn't mean I cannot listen to criticism of Britains behaviour.
Churchill was a bastard!
He had the soldiers open fire on striking coal-miners.

He could sacrifice a thousand lives and not lose a minute of sleep over it.
He was a typical upper class English gentleman of his generation.
Born at Blenhiem Palace he believed it was his birthright to rule the 'common people'.

In 1945 the British electorate couldn't get rid of him fast enough.
But he was re-elected in the 50's?

OPINIONS ON BRITISH BETRAYAL OF POLAND AFTER WW2 would be interesting to read.

And if Bubba woo (et al) feel too patriotic to accept them maybe they should read a few history books.
We Brits didn't get the biggest empire the world has ever known by being honest and fair.
PolskaMan 2 | 147  
12 Jan 2009 /  #218
Well that seems to be a decent answer,But remember there is a difference between rescue and help the Brits helped us but technicly did not rescue us.I agree with you churchill was a basterd
Kilkline 1 | 682  
13 Jan 2009 /  #219
It is not antagonistic. Just because I'm a Brit doesn't mean I cannot listen to criticism of Britains behaviour.
Churchill was a bastard!
He had the soldiers open fire on striking coal-miners.

He could sacrifice a thousand lives and not lose a minute of sleep over it.
He was a typical upper class English gentleman of his generation.
Born at Blenhiem Palace he believed it was his birthright to rule the 'common people'.

In 1945 the British electorate couldn't get rid of him fast enough.
But he was re-elected in the 50's?

Well that seems to be a decent answer,But remember there is a difference between rescue and help the Brits helped us but technicly did not rescue us.I agree with you churchill was a basterd

He was a bastard but he was a wartime leader in opposition to Hitler. He was the man for his time, a wartime leader who looked anachronistic in peacetime. Churchill has said he was born for the task of leading Britain in WW2, a statement that given the outcome is hard to disagree with.
Crnogorac7 - | 12  
13 Jan 2009 /  #220
He was a bastard

Looks like a gangster, maybe a boot legger?
MarcinD 4 | 135  
14 Jan 2009 /  #221
just a quick post before coffee

polish history tells us they were right royally bottom buggered by germany, russia and the uk...

which only leads to one question... what sort of p*ssy nation are they?

Poland for whatever reason you want to use (too pussy/too nice/too fair) never exploited other nations. If I remember correctly they are the only European nation to not hold any slaves. Yes Poland did also have former power that could have very easily done so but they did not. All the wealthy nations today heavily exploited a group of people in there past and involved some kind of slavery.
celinski 31 | 1258  
14 Jan 2009 /  #222
what sort of p*ssy nation are they?

Not to mention the fact it took all of them vs Poland.
Kilkline 1 | 682  
14 Jan 2009 /  #223
Took all of them to what?
sjam 2 | 541  
14 Jan 2009 /  #224
Poland for whatever reason you want to use (too pussy/too nice/too fair) never exploited other nations.

In 20th Century history I think some Ukranians (and to a smaller extent Slovakians when part of Slovakia was occupied by Poland in December 1938) might have reason to disagree with such an absolute and definitive statement.
Harry  
14 Jan 2009 /  #225
Poland for whatever reason you want to use (too pussy/too nice/too fair) never exploited other nations.

In 1920 Poland signed a treaty with Ukraine. The two countries fought together against Russia. Then in 1921, after the war was won, Poland made a seperate peace with Russia (despite the treaty clearly forbidding that) and seized the western half of Ukraine (the eastern half went to Russia). Then Poland repressed the Ukrainian people, closed down their schools, destroyed their churches, locked their leaders in internment camps and opened a concentration camp to deal with the particularly difficult Ukrainians.

So don't spout shite about how Poland is always wonderful.
Babinich 1 | 454  
14 Jan 2009 /  #226
The two countries fought together against Russia. Then in 1921, after the war was won, Poland made a seperate peace with Russia (despite the treaty clearly forbidding that) and seized the western half of Ukraine (the eastern half went to Russia).

Lets talk facts shall we?

The unfortunate matter was that Piłsudski felt the Riga agreement was a disaster. The Riga treaty was negotiated by Jan Dąbski (Poles). By 1921, Piłsudski was only an observer during the Riga negotiations, which he called an act of cowardice. Allegedly, after he left the conference room, he told the waiting Ukrainians: Gentlemen, I deeply apologize to you.

There were many Poles who fought and died along side of the Ukrainians that honored the Petlura-Piłsudski Alliance.

A reminder of the topic: Poland Betrayed in WW2
Harry  
14 Jan 2009 /  #227
A reminder of the topic: Poland Betrayed in WW2

The point might be that what goes around comes around. Any betrayal of Poland in 1945 was mild compared to the betrayal by Poland in 1921. However, Poles never seem to want to hear about that betrayal.
ArcticPaul 38 | 233  
14 Jan 2009 /  #228
Lets also remember that in 1920 Poland was only just understanding itself after 123 years of political non-existance.

But we can concede that maybe Poland has wronged Ukraine in it's history.

During WW2 Britain made many promises to former colonies/allies.
The Shan (Burma) are a good example of a people who fouight for UK. Lost many lives in barbaric ways to the Japanese. Expected Britain to support their claim for an independent homeland (It was obvious that the colonial era was ending and the Shan wanted their own sovereign state. Not just to be a minority race within a free Burma....A far worse situation than being a British colony to the Shan!) Britain promised them all this. After WW2 we granted Burmese independance without honouring our promises to the Shan.

Lawrance of Arabia. 1919.
After years of promises to the Arabs of a free Arabia, no longer a colony of the Ottoman Turks. We sat down with France and divided the area between us like fat children grabbing handfulls of cake.

lawrance was deeply upset at the betrayal.....not unlike Pilsudski after the breaking of his treaty with the Ukrainians. (???)
Prince 15 | 590  
14 Jan 2009 /  #229
During WW2 Britain made many promises to former colonies/allies.The Shan (Burma) are a good example of a people who fouight for UK. Lost many lives in barbaric ways to the Japanese. Expected Britain to support their claim for an independent homeland (It was obvious that the colonial era was ending and the Shan wanted their own sovereign state. Not just to be a minority race within a free Burma....A far worse situation than being a British colony to the Shan!) Britain promised them all this. After WW2 we granted Burmese independance without honouring our promises to the Shan.

heheh as I've said ...

From the other hand: alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N13393939.htm

In his remarks, Olmert described his call to Bush while the U.S. president was giving a speech in Philadelphia.

"I said, 'I don't care. I have to talk to him now,'" Olmert said, describing Bush, who leaves office on Jan. 20, as "an unparalleled friend" of Israel.

Matyjasz 2 | 1543  
14 Jan 2009 /  #230
i would class them as pikeys gippo's and scroungers ..the most hated and horrible people ever put on this earth..

I like the sound of that. Maybe I will put it on my business card. :)
Seanus 15 | 19669  
14 Jan 2009 /  #231
Yeah, I can see negative points in Poles as I can in any nation, but the best people here are extraordinary. I have the utmost respect for some here.
skrewdriver - | 3  
14 Jan 2009 /  #232
Yeah, I can see negative points in Poles as I can in any nation, but the best people here are extraordinary. I have the utmost respect for some here.

nice as if
Seanus 15 | 19669  
14 Jan 2009 /  #233
OK, so they may not have the inventive capabilities of the Scots, nor the standard of living that most of us there enjoy, but that doesn't make them any less.

Not everyone can be Scottish :)
PolskaMan 2 | 147  
14 Jan 2009 /  #234
So don't spout shite about how Poland is always wonderful.

Sorry but you need to get your facts straight.The West Ukrainian National Republic fought against Poles murdered them and killed Polish citizens in Lwow and burnt down our churches.The Ukrainian People's Republic on the other hand formed an alliance with us in the Polish-soviet war.

You really need to hit the books.
Harry  
15 Jan 2009 /  #235
Murdering civilians and burning down Polish churches? That would be why the battle of Lwow is sometimes referred to as "the last civilized conflict" by Polish historians.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Lw%C3%B3w_(1918)

The murder of civilians in Lwow in 1918 started on 22 November and was carried out by Polish troops and civilians. In the time-honoured Polish tradition, the brave Poles decided that they needed to have a good ole pogrom and promptly ransacked the Jewish quarter of the city, indulging in the traditional burning, looting, raping and shooting. According to an unpublished report from the Polish Foreign Ministry, 150 Jews were killed during the pogrom. And so the Ukrainians wouldn't feel left out, your brave boys killed a couple of hundred Ukrainian Christians too.

Perhaps you might like to read and think before posting?
sjam 2 | 541  
15 Jan 2009 /  #236
Perhaps you might like to read and think before posting?

Maybe we can all take something from this

....must get back to work now.
celinski 31 | 1258  
15 Jan 2009 /  #237
It's all in the wording. When checking your

Current Research on Anti-Semitism

sorce I wondered if you took the time to read the reviews?
IronsE11 2 | 441  
15 Jan 2009 /  #238
In UK we get a very limited, very one sided story concerning our entry into WW2
We are taught that Hitler invaded Poland so we declared war on Germany.

That is indeed what happened. GCSE level history however, only deals with the basics.

People who have studied history at A-Level, undergraduate level or higher, are likely to have a far more enlightened view on the politics involved.
celinski 31 | 1258  
15 Jan 2009 /  #239
only deals with the basics.

I must admit in the USA we were given altered history. One wanting to learn was at a disadvantage. Today the schools still are behind. It is mandatory to teach the "Holocaust" in USA yet religion is not to be taught.

If you go to the files of FDR you can read the cover up and knowledge of "Katyn" as well as other documents. March of 1939 Soviets wrote of the split of Poland and their intrest in Baltic states, wanting 1914 borders back in place.

Churchill--> FDR 8/13/43
... , rebellions and repressions, the Russo-Polish war of 1919-20, the
mutual suspicions which this left behind it, the unannounced invasion
of Poland by Russia in September 1939, the subsequent occupation of
half Poland by Russia and the carrying into captivity of some million
and a half of its inhabitants ...
fdrlibrary.marist. edu/psf/box37/ t334p07.html 05/27/04,7763
bytes

You also will see letters from Poland where they were trying to reach an aggreement with Germany just prior to the attack.

This link has very interesting documents.
fdrlibrary.marist. edu/psf/box37/folt334.html
Harry  
15 Jan 2009 /  #240
Thank you for posting in agreement with both me and the historical facts.

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