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German POWs after WW2 - did the allies commit mass murder?


Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,937  
9 Nov 2008 /  #151
Yeah...you are right...a bunch of clumsy meanies, the whole lot of them!

Bah...screw them!
Franek 8 | 271  
9 Nov 2008 /  #152
I am an American,drafted in 1944 at the age of 18. I landed at Utah beach of june 6th 1944, fought all the way to the crossing of the Rhine at Remagan.. After escaping from German Internment I made my way back to American lines where I was sent back to the US.. For me the war was over,I spent the next 14 months in various Army hospitals gettin put back together again.
Filios1 8 | 1,336  
9 Nov 2008 /  #153
These men were skilled aviators. But face the facts, most of their kills came against an inferior air force.
Frankly, the only German fighting force I had some degree of respect for served in the Luftwaffe. Although, strafing civilian populations in 39' is far from anything heroic...
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,937  
9 Nov 2008 /  #154
I am an American,drafted in 1944 at the age of 18. I landed at Utah beach of june 6th 1944, fought all the way to the crossing of the Rhine at Remagan.. After escaping from German Internment I made my way back to American lines where I was sent back to the US.. For me the war was over,I spent the next 14 months in various Army hospitals gettin put back together again.

Whoa...hat's off for making it through! :)

But face the facts, most of their kills came against an inferior air force.

The Russians won't be happy to hear you calling them that...:(
Dawid  
9 Nov 2008 /  #155
LOL... thank you Mr. President. Sorry to all for the off-topic diversion!
Wahldo  
9 Nov 2008 /  #156
so ein komplexes Wissen wird in deutschen Schulen nicht vermittelt...in keiner Schule allerdings glaube ich!)

Ya got that right, slick. PFs has made you the wise boy.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
9 Nov 2008 /  #157
Just because your enemy is strong and skilled and successfull doesn't mean he is a criminal

No, the enemy wasn't criminal because it was skilled. It was criminal because of what they used that skill for.

But then, how much skill did the honorable German soldier need to do this:



or this:



How low, and below humanity did Germans have to fall to kill a mother holding her child?

BBoy, you are glorifying murderers and those who aided murderers commit the atrocities. I see no glory in this for Germany, or you. You may as well declare a genius the person who came with the idea to use Zykoln-B to kill hundreds of thousand of innocent people. An idea that lead to efficiency, great organization, significant savings in bullets and man power. Long live German genius and skill!
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,937  
9 Nov 2008 /  #158
Bigot!

McCain did this (or one of his comrades)
But in the US he is a war hero and millions voted for him as their president!



Gimme a break!

Long live German genius and skill!

Agreed! :)
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
9 Nov 2008 /  #159
I am not American, and I did not support McCain.

Also, what the picture shows that was never discussed in this thread. (I actually met that "girl" in the first picture, she now lives in Canada). I will be the first to point out the American war crimes after WW2.

During WW2 Americans had a fair share of incidents of war crimes. For Germans war crimes during WW2 were not incidental, it was a policy.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,937  
9 Nov 2008 /  #160
I am not American, and I did not support McCain.

I don't care..that wasn't the question!
Do you think about the same millions of Americans who admire him and who
voted for him as people who glorify war criminals???

No?

I just take the same right for myself as every other nation does..to hold up
the respect for all soldiers and their sacrifices! If it doesn't suit you...to bad,
I will never force you to do it!

For Germans war crimes during WW2 were not incidental, it was a policy.

Yeah...that's where your nice anecdote came from about the poor german soldier who got beaten down by their superior for being unpolite to a farmer, right?

And that Franek got treated well as he became a POW??? Just a lone incident???
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
9 Nov 2008 /  #161
Do you think about the same millions of Americans who admire him and who
voted for him as people who glorify war criminals???

I do, and I still don't get it how participation in a failed and unjust war ended up being a test of American patriotism.

I just take the same right for myself as every other nation does..to hold up
the respect for all soldiers and their sacrifices!

There were sacrifices by Poles, Brits, French, Belgians, Dutch, Jews, Russians and others. Those sacrifices resulted from a collective insanity of the German nation which decided to sacrifice other nations for some Lebensraum. These were the REAL SACRIFICES. Inflicted on millions by German insanity.

In 1939 Germans went on a ruthless stealing rampage and killing spree. The sacrifices were those of their victims. German soldiers who died during the plunder and murder deserved no less. Their deaths were accidents during a heist.

Germans were criminals, about half of Europe were the victims. The victims eventually prevailed and killed some of those who wanted to kill them. If you can't see a difference between the criminal and the victim we'll never understand each other.

Yeah...that's where your nice anecdote came from about the poor german soldier who got beaten down by their superior for being unpolite to a farmer, right?

That German officer was not following the policy.

And that Franek got treated well as he became a POW??? Just a lone incident???

Franek was a US soldier. Poles were considered Untermensch, unworthy to live. His incident wasn't lone on the other side of Europe. It would have been very unusual on the Eastern front.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,937  
9 Nov 2008 /  #162
I do, and I still don't get it how participation in a failed and unjust war ended up being a test of American patriotism.

Well..then I'm in good companionship!
I can live with that...

PS: Nobody is demanding from you to honor german or american troops btw.
But neither one of us is dependent on your approval for that!
There is nothing to discuss actually....
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
9 Nov 2008 /  #163
But neither one of us is dependent on your approval for that!

I never said you need an approval to say or write anything here. But neither do I need your approval to express my view that there is nothing honorable or admirable in any of the German genius and skill used to annihilate millions of innocent lives.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,937  
9 Nov 2008 /  #164
Maybe you just don't get the difference between honoring the troops and honoring a cause!
Many people who were against the Vietnam war, the Iraq war or even against the war in WWII still felt for their boys, their sons, their brothers, their fathers

...and that is their right!

And remember how our dispute started? You said "the Luftwaffe sucked" and I showed you how wrong you were...you said I was glorifying mass murder..since then we are circling around:)
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
9 Nov 2008 /  #165
Maybe you just don't get the difference between honoring the troops and honoring a cause!

I do. When a man murders another person in an ingenuous way, I see every reason to spit on him, but none to admire him.

Many people who were against the Vietnam war, the Iraq war or even against the war in WWII still felt for their boys, their sons, their brothers, their fathers...and that is their right!

Of course it is, and that's how many started or joined the anti-war movement. They didn't take pride in the awesome power of napalm dropped on a Vietnamese village. Eventually, after just a couple decades, and a few Rambo movies those who took part in the Vietnam catastrophe became heroes. To me they were participating in crime, and many eventually became victims.

And remember how our dispute started? You said "the Luftwaffe sucked" and I showed you how wrong you were

Yes. They sucked as human beings. They were either criminals, or helped criminals. As for flying and fighting skills - they were some of the best.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,937  
9 Nov 2008 /  #166
To me they were participating in crime, and many eventually became victims.

Would you call them all criminals?

They sucked as human beings. They were either criminals, or helped criminals.

Would you say the same about the american pilots in Vietnam?
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
9 Nov 2008 /  #167
Would you call them all criminals?

Probably not. Some were forced to go to Vietnam. But I would would protest their aspirations to pride.

Would you say the same about the american pilots in Vietnam?

Absolutely.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,937  
9 Nov 2008 /  #168
They sucked as human beings. They were either criminals, or helped criminals.

Would you say the same about the american pilots in Vietnam?

Absolutely.

Interesting!

Some were forced to go to Vietnam.

Erm...how do you think the german army got so big?
Wahldo  
9 Nov 2008 /  #169
Eventually, after just a couple decades, and a few Rambo movies those who took part in the Vietnam catastrophe became heroes. To me they were participating in crime, and many eventually became victims.

Quite poetic from the sidelines aren't we. Yeah you're definitely the sanctimonious Canadian. Infinitely blameless. Showing up every night to brow beat whoever. What an a.ss hole.

Guys from Vietnam haven't been made heros they have been given just respect for what they had to endure.
Wahldo  
9 Nov 2008 /  #171
You're goddmann right he is.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
9 Nov 2008 /  #172
Thanks! May statement was correct then, you are a bigot!
How disappointing...

You're full of sshit BBoy.
If I were a bigot then I wouldn't have written about my family's experience with Germans. I varied, but they were lucky to come across a decent one. He was probably just like some of the frightened American kids dropped in Hanoi. Saying that 100 of Germans were bad people would be as stupid as saying that 100% of Americans were glad to have played patriots in Vietnam.

WW2 wouldn't have been possible with the enthusiasm of Germans longing for that Polish cow or a farm in Poland. Vietnam war had significant oppositon in the US. WW2 had minimal opposition in Germany. That is a heck of a difference.

There are millions of shades between black and white.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,937  
9 Nov 2008 /  #173
There are millions of shades between black and white.

Reading your posts one wouldn't know that...for you they are all criminals!
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
9 Nov 2008 /  #174
Guys from Vietnam haven't been made heros

are you sure?
How about this tiny sample?
gallup.com/poll/106864/McCain-Widely-Recognized-War-Hero.aspx

or this one
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/americas/2000/us_elections/profiles/576507.stm
Warsaw8 4 | 126  
9 Nov 2008 /  #175
The allies are plenty guilty of alot of things, possibly more then any other nation ever, (except Isreal), "they take the gold on that one"....Haha inside joke their, if you dont get it, just ask...
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699  
9 Nov 2008 /  #176
Please don't paint me as heartless. U really don't know me then.

then you should explain much more before you make a statement.. as shopgirl had pointed out in the first place.
Filios1 8 | 1,336  
9 Nov 2008 /  #177
And that Franek got treated well as he became a POW??? Just a lone incident???

Franek was an American. Hitler had respect for the US because he considered it to be run by Germanics. The manner in which Germans treated Anglo-Saxon British and American soldiers is not at all an accurate portrayal of generally brutal and savage treatment of Slavic POW's.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
10 Nov 2008 /  #178
Then u shouldn't assume Pat19. Look at BB's posting above, that's what I was taking issue with. U read it ur way, I read it mine. I had the 'napalm heads' in my mind. How does it feel to see innocent children flee in fear of their lives? At least soldiers are big boys with guns, separated from their families for a certain period and not permanently like kids in Nam.

Sorry, u r very 'pyskatliwa' but I ain't standing for it.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
10 Nov 2008 /  #179
Lets not forget this was not just Nazi's it was Soviets as well. They did not attack first but in unison.

Only since the collapse of the Soviet empire have we learnt the full truth, for example, about the horrors of Katyn - when Stalin in the spring of 1940 authorised the murder of thousands of members of the Polish elite. Indeed, the crime of Katyn runs like a cancer through this history, as we see how the Western leaders helped suppress the truth about the murders during the war. "We should none of us ever speak a word about it," wrote Winston Churchill on a memo in 1943, referring to a secret Foreign Office investigation that was to show that the Soviets had most likely committed the crime. The American President, Franklin D Roosevelt, went further. When a functionary threatened to go to the press revealing that Stalin had almost certainly ordered these murders, Roosevelt promptly had him sent off to what was effectively exile - to work as a government official on the other side of the world in Samoa.

telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2008/11/10/nosplit/bvtvlaurence-rees-1011.xml
Franek 8 | 271  
10 Nov 2008 /  #180
AHHH!
Reading these posts sorta make me laugh, and cry at the same time. No matter where ya'all are getting your information from, there is but one answer.War is Hell . Unless you are there to experience it personally, how can you tell how you would react if you were in the same situation. Some of us break down in combat. Others hold up. I was willing to kill to save my skin. I did not want to die.. This goes for our adversaries too. The individual soldier is nothing more than cannon fodder.. Our lives are expendable. In war people die.

BB Yes, Darius is a Canadian. He is originally from SE Poland. Galicia

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