Return PolishForums LIVE
  PolishForums Archive :
Archives - 2005-2009 / History  % width 228

German POWs after WW2 - did the allies commit mass murder?


Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
9 Nov 2008 /  #61
I surely don't want to apologize for Hitler

That is and will forever remain your biggest problem.
Hueg - | 320  
9 Nov 2008 /  #62
There were decent Luftwaffe pilots.

Aviation History - Charlie Brown's Story

Charlie Brown was a B-17 Flying Fortress pilot with the 379th Bomber Group at Kimbolton, England. His B-17 was called 'Ye Old Pub' and was in a terrible state, having been hit by flak and fighters. The compass was damaged and they were flying deeper over enemy territory instead of heading home to Kimbolton.
After flying over an enemy airfield, a pilot named Franz Steigler was ordered to take off and shoot down the B-17. When he got near the B-17, he could not believe his eyes. In his words, he 'had never seen a plane in such a bad state'. The tail and rear section was severely damaged, and the tail gunner wounded. The top gunner was all over the top of the fuselage. The nose was smashed and there were holes everywhere.

shopgirl 6 | 928  
9 Nov 2008 /  #63
I find it pathetic when America hails its war veterans.

What the hell?
What is wrong with remembering those you gave their lives to defend their country? You do realize the Veterans Day is on Tuesday in the US?

What about all these poor kids coming back from Iraq, permanently disabled. You say we should appreciate them for their sacrifice? Or you think we should condemn them for having been deployed there?

Seanus, please think before you type.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699  
9 Nov 2008 /  #64
Seanus, please think before you type.

yes, please do, MY father was a war veteran, uncles , friends of the family who kept America safe as well as many other countries whom needed our help and should be honored for the service they did not only for us but for those who needed them.. you might not be a apple in your daddys eyes if things were to have been differently..
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Nov 2008 /  #65
Trust me, I thought it through. Defend their country? I wasn't aware of any Iraqi or Afghan force entering America to attack. I ain't being disingenuous here. What American interests are being defended abroad? U tell me.

Let me remind u that it's a volunteer army in America. Life is like a contract, u make a decision and u bear the consequences.

As for Vietnam, that was an ideological war, perpetrated by evil forces who stood to profit in the vilest way. Don't get me wrong, I deplore the loss of life. I also deplore the motives that lie behind those losses.

Sorry, I've grown tired of this spouting of glory. I applaud the toppling of Saddam and the efforts to create a workable democracy in Iraq. It's as the old adage goes tho, 'no pain, no gain'.

Kept America safe from what exactly?
Filios1 8 | 1,336  
9 Nov 2008 /  #66
It's sad that war is glorified. I find it pathetic when America hails its war veterans

And if these same war veterans hadn't came and saved your behinds in WW2, the world would surely be a hell of a lot different than it is today.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699  
9 Nov 2008 /  #67
Trust me, I thought it through. Defend their country?

why cant you get off the iraq * as people are still there now* kick

veterans,, people who served, regardless of why /what it was about?
do you think those who served in veitnam wanted to be there? not at all
but do you think we should condem them for being drafted?

some of it wasnt by choice, so your wrong there, we do draft , and thats not free will, so they go they serve , come home to a empty negative person like you.. gosh, I would just love to be in your family with so much negative going on..

even though I was forced against my will to go serve to save your arse.

now wyspy,, this is who you would call an old * blank blank.. but I wont because I am trying to be good.

tell ya what seanus, go get some comfort food, because you really sound like your having a PMS DAY...
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Nov 2008 /  #68
Oh, I applauded them and MANY times Filios. I will never retract that. Look elsewhere and u will see that I'm not lying. Look at the previous page, where the above quote was taken from. I watched the Brotherhood serial about American involvement and they did wondrous things.

I was thinking Vietnam and Afghanistan.

So u sent them into a war that they couldn't even see the point of fighting? U still haven't answered my question. How were they saving me or Americans? Were millions of Americans seized there whilst on vacation? What imminent threat was there?

Glorifying WAR is not nice, sorry. As humans, we value the loss of one life. How about the loss of MILLIONS, repeat, MILLIONS? Come on, what cause is worth more than human life?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
9 Nov 2008 /  #69
I was thinking Vietnam and Afghanistan.

And what's wrong with that ?
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699  
9 Nov 2008 /  #70
Oh, I applauded them and MANY times Filios.

thats all you need to say, our economy is so bad right now the only thing left is to join and make your bed as you might not come home, few of my cousins are going not because they have to, want to, but because the only job left after shrubco and company is the military..

I dont think your realize the full impact!!

like shopgirl says, think before typing.

and why wouldnt you want to honor someone you love coming home from a war they didnt want to be involved in, but dodged bullets to come home, made it past land mines, captured someone who was holding a gun to their head.. went to a place they didnt want to go, but because their govt says we have to , they went and made it home in one piece, and they weret involved in anything bad, only that they were another American citizen who went because he had to..

those in afganistan were called to duty,, in case your wondering.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Nov 2008 /  #71
And who voted him in? The enemy? I am thinking, I'm asking hard questions, trying to get around the blind patriotism.

Oh, I have the fullest of sympathy for people who were forced to go and put their lives in jeopardy. I'm a libertarian, I believe in freedom of choice as much as possible. I'm merely stating that we shouldn't glorify what war represents. I can't thank sb for fighting a cause that I believe is WRONG from the outset.

Please don't paint me as heartless. U really don't know me then. I deplore the loss of life too, it's the underlying motives that I take issue with. Lockheed Martin profiting from the misery of others, that's rampant capitalism and disgusting.
Filios1 8 | 1,336  
9 Nov 2008 /  #72
was thinking Vietnam and Afghanistan.

Vietnam is a different case, because many of these men were drafted. I don't think you can blame the soldiers doing the fighting in that situation, just because of their govermnents policies. Just a ****** spot to be in, being sent over there.

Thats not to say that I disagree with a lot of America's involvement on the international level. How about East Timor? But respect for the rank and file troops.
Hueg - | 320  
9 Nov 2008 /  #73
I ain't being disingenuous here.

No but you are however being deliberately inflamatory.
Part of the contract of life involves compassion (section 27, para. 3) for their suffering is no less great just because we disagree with the actions that caused it. Not everyone reads the small print unfortunately.

get around the blind patriotism.

but no matter your intentions a poke in the eye is never going to restore sight.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Nov 2008 /  #74
I think we are getting our wires crossed here. Conscription to an evil agenda is horrible. I'm focussing on the underlying principles and not the practicalities. The practical decision to send them against their will is despicable. I guess Metallica said it well, 'For a hill, men would kill, why? they do not know, stiffened wounds test their pride. Men of five, still alive, through the raging glow, gone insane for the pain that they surely know'.

Nobody has given me a sound justification for the war. It's just attack, attack, attack without any attempt to see that it was flawed from the outset. Waging a protracted war for profits is sinister, what's wrong with me thinking that?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,937  
9 Nov 2008 /  #75
I was out for awhile...what are we discussing now???
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Nov 2008 /  #76
The last time I checked Hueg, many veterans are still on the go. I can't believe so many people misinterpreted what I wrote. Hueg, people say u r smart, but u have just proved otherwise.

I HAVE compassion, I am a very humane person. I said that I don't like war veterans being hailed. I didn't say that I took any satisfaction in seeing any people wounded.

Ask Franek, our resident Vet here. I have complimented him on numerous occasions for being heroic and fighting the Nazis. THESE people were saving the world. The other wars, however, caused untold suffering AND FOR WHAT?

Come on Hueg, step up to the plate and give me a justification for loss of life on the scale of Vietnam?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,937  
9 Nov 2008 /  #77
THESE people were saving the world.

??? If you go out of Europe..people mostly don't care about Hitler, the Nazis, the Jews or WWII...we are a bit myopic here! :)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Nov 2008 /  #78
Nonsense BB, of course the Americans care(d) about WWII. Or were u being sarcastic? Hitler was a GLOBAL threat, how did that not affect America?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,937  
9 Nov 2008 /  #79
Ja gut...Europe and the US.
But go to Asia, Africa, South America....
For the Chinese the Japanese are much more important for example.
And remember the Adolf-Hitler-Suite in a Hotel somewhere in India lately?
Most don't care about this war...and in Japan, the Nazis are part of the pop culture...
...people still love the uniforms...and so on

Stalin killed more people than Hitler managed, he spun a net of Gulags over all of his conquered colonies...but WWII saved the world??? Coooome ooooon...
shopgirl 6 | 928  
9 Nov 2008 /  #80
only that they were another American citizen who went because he had to..

Exactly my thoughts!

Seanus does not get this. All he can see is the current involvements of our military and his condemnation of the reason to be there. He does not understand that America's mourning for loved ones lost in battle is a personal matter, not a political one. He is confused bout what it means to us.

Very sad.
Wahldo  
9 Nov 2008 /  #81
Hitler was a GLOBAL threat, how did that not affect America?

Well you could make a fairly good argument he might not have been a threat to the US mainland. Had we concentrated on the Japanese-Pacific theatre that would have been over sooner and the A Bomb wouldn't have been used. (Hypothetically)

Alls well that ends well I guess. And sure, the European market grew the US considerably.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Nov 2008 /  #82
Geez, how BLIND r u people? I DO, repeat DO, repeat DO, repeat DO, have sympathy for these people. Sorry Admin, forgive me but I must, no, I'll use bold. I don't like the underlying reasons for going to war in Vietnam or Afghanistan. Companies profit and people suffer, that's despicable.. Maybe I should write that again but would u even care to read it?

I hope u r getting personal stuff off of ur chests. OF COURSE I can see it's personal. I just don't want any glorification of a topic which is inextricably linked with death.

THANK U Wahldo. My point exactly. Hitler had the Luftwaffe but may not have been a threat to the US. Germany is closer than Iraq and Afghanistan. What safety threat do terrorists in Iraq pose Americans in America? Oh, it's those WMD's of course, silly me.
shopgirl 6 | 928  
9 Nov 2008 /  #83
This is part of where you have gone wrong......NO ONE HERE IS GLORIFYING ANYTHING.
Caring is not the same as glorifying.
Take us at our word, because we mean it!
Wahldo  
9 Nov 2008 /  #84
Germany is closer than Iraq and Afghanistan. What safety threat do terrorists in Iraq pose Americans in America?

You are right to assert that Bush and his cronies profited from Iraq and Afghanistan.. and still are profitting. However, one of the underlying motives of the US moving into the Middle East in the wake of 911 was to send a message to the whole region to at least try and corral terrorists. Focusing on Iraq, which was toppled (on paper) in two weeks, Bush was hoping to scare all the other governments in that region. Did it make things worse to degree, did it disregard the larger political , cultural ramifications, yes probably.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Nov 2008 /  #85
No-one here, OK, but many Americans are over proud of their involvement in Nam. Thankfully, many protested the war.

OK, now we are getting somewhere, separating things. AT LAST. Caring is a different issue entirely.

U have a point Wahldo. Do u know Matty? He defended the war and with some decent arguments. However, he did concede on different occasions that America needed to pursue Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. As Obama said, Iraq didn't have so many terrorists out in the open b4 9/11. The other 2 did. The whole region wasn't scared as deals were done.
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
9 Nov 2008 /  #86
Mistreating the german minority, threatening Danzig and denying any compromise

I'm this close to believe that it was actually Poland that started the war. Lol
Wahldo  
9 Nov 2008 /  #87
he did concede on different occasions that America needed to pursue Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

Sure, I'd concede that. That's why Obama is so adamant about getting away from mid east oil. He's got a good general plan, just has to execute.. he's going to try and slowly divorce the US from the region. Hopefully, he'll ebb away (monetarily) from Israel.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Nov 2008 /  #88
Yeah, I listened to the whole debate of 26/9 today. He does have some interesting proposals regarding alternative energy and maximising the benefits of oil extraction. Weaning people off of oil is logical, just like off of drugs. He admitted that it had to be executed progressively. He has to free up resources in order to put it in place.
Wahldo  
9 Nov 2008 /  #89
Weaning people off of oil is logical, just like off of drugs

Yeah good analogy.. but the Chinese love SUVs too apparently and they fix gas at $2.90 a gallon, so here we go again.

Yeah pretty happy about Obama, he's no "hoodrat" ; - )
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 10,937  
9 Nov 2008 /  #90
I'm this close to believe that it was actually Poland that started the war. Lol

Nope, the counted on their allies for that...(didn't work out as planned though)

Archives - 2005-2009 / History / German POWs after WW2 - did the allies commit mass murder?Archived