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Polish-German Relations in the Present


MattB 2 | 16  
12 Jun 2007 /  #1
What are your views on the relationship between Poland and German? Is it getting better or worse?
shopgirl 6 | 928  
12 Jun 2007 /  #2
For people or governments?

Leaders are trying to work things out....

keralanext.com/news/?id=986809
ArturSzastak 3 | 593  
12 Jun 2007 /  #3
I perzonally like ze Germanz. Zey give me a nice new Volksvagon Beetle, and I find it quite roomy. Vit itz side-airbag engineering and ze air-conditioning, it is truly a vork of art. But zis is only an opinion ;]
OP MattB 2 | 16  
12 Jun 2007 /  #4
For people or governments

Mainly for the people. Governments could always be hiding behind the diplomatic veil and may not show their true intentions although I think that the fact that the leaders are trying to work things out sounds pretty sincere :)
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
13 Jun 2007 /  #5
Is it getting better or worse?

Worse for sure.
Crow 139 | 8,307  
13 Jun 2007 /  #6
German nation is young one, agressive and full of complexes.

That`s the reason for bad German attitude on Poles- who are old nation, aware of great heritage.
Magnate  
14 Jun 2007 /  #7
I think the Polish-German relations are not growing worse, it is just bolder, and I would say more reasonable government that denies any riddiculous demands from the German side, like Steinbach's, wants to incorporate more Christian traditions into Europe, and strenghten smaller countries in Europe - it's received as a threat from German beaurocracts and globalists... :]

Re: Crow
I wouldn't say Germany is younger than Poland... Their heritage is actually about 500 years older, but their youth became more "Americanized" and self-oriented even than Polish one. And, of course, their national pride kind of waned for widely known reasons. ;)
OP MattB 2 | 16  
14 Jun 2007 /  #8
Hmm, what about the stereotypes about Poles, do you think they are dissolving from the Germans' point of view or are they getting stronger?
Crow 139 | 8,307  
14 Jun 2007 /  #9
I, or if you wish - Serbs (speaking about Balkan Serbs) in general, don`t have evan a single prejudice/stereotype on Poles. We consider Poles very culturaly advanced and Poland as last core of Sarmatia (old Slavia).

It is familar to us that most of people on false West have some prejudices on Poles (on Slavs in general) but, we don`t give a sh** about that. For us, Poles are our Slavic brothers and sisters and we would like that Poles and Russians respect each others- that they work togather.
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434  
14 Jun 2007 /  #10
I think the Polish-German relations are not growing worse, it is just bolder, and I would say more reasonable government that denies any riddiculous demands from the German side, like Steinbach's, wants to incorporate more Christian traditions into Europe, and strenghten smaller countries in Europe - it's received as a threat from German beaurocracts and globalists... :]

Who do you think is respected now in the EU and who get's laughed about?

PS: I've heard that the polish potatoe heads are backpedaling with their veto on the EU constitution...all are feeling just annoyed by them...

Re: Crow
I wouldn't say Germany is younger than Poland... Their heritage is actually about 500 years older, but their youth became more "Americanized" and self-oriented even than Polish one. And, of course, their national pride kind of waned for widely known reasons. ;)

*snicker*

Remember last summer in Germany?
Whenever you want to see national pride you just have to watch our Mannschaft! :)

PS: Americanized got only the western half...
Crow 139 | 8,307  
14 Jun 2007 /  #11
You see people what I talking about?

Wurst demonstrate real complexity of young German nation. No wonder that such a beings can`t found beauty in European heritage.
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434  
14 Jun 2007 /  #12
If you mean the national state then "young" is fitting I think...1871 is fairly recent.

But if you mean the people, our ethnicity, our heritage...we are several thousand years old already...

What do you mean with "young"?

Bismarck rocks!

Ja? Let me laugh with you!

"...The concept of "Germanic" as a distinct ethnic identity was hinted at by the early Greek geographer Strabo [1], who distinguished a barbarian group in northern Europe similar to North American Indians, but not part of, the Celts. Posidonius, to our knowledge, is the first to have used the name, around 80 BC, in his lost 30th book. Our knowledge of this is based on the 4th book of Athenaeus, who in ca. AD 190 quotes Posidonius as saying that "The Germani at noon serve roast meat with milk, and drink their wine undiluted".

By the 1st century A.D., the writings of Caesar, Tacitus and other Roman era writers indicate a division of Germanic-speaking peoples into tribal groupings centred on:

* the rivers Oder and Vistula (Poland) (East Germanic tribes),
* the lower Rhine river (Istvaeones),
* the river Elbe (Irminones),
* Jutland and the Danish islands (Ingvaeones).

The Sons of Mannus Istvaeones, Irminones, and Ingvaeones are collectively called West Germanic tribes. In addition, those Germanic people who remained in Scandinavia are referred to as North Germanic. These groups all developed separate dialects, the basis for the differences among Germanic languages down to the present day...."


Knowing that those people didn't just hatch this moment but developed for several centuries/millennia already you got a really old people...

Now tell me your joke!


PS: "...Strabo[1] (Greek: ; 63/64 BC - ca. AD 24) was a Greek historian, geographer and philosopher. He is mostly famous for his 17-volume work Geographica, which presented a descriptive history of people and places from different regions of the world known to his era...."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Ancient_Germanic_culture

"Did you know that Tolkien's Middle Earth is firmly based on Germanic mythology, and that theRohirrim culture as portrayed in the novel is clearly derived from theAnglo-Saxons?"
OP MattB 2 | 16  
14 Jun 2007 /  #13
we are several thousand years old already

Well 'several' generally means more than two, and more than 2000 years would be too exaggerated.

Even if Germans aren't that young as a people, why the ancient hate against Poles or Slavs in general. The Slavic culture isn't very young either and Polish people have most probably the most German blood in them (excluding of course the native Germanic peoples) and vice versa for Germany, due to the two countries' intertwined history.
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434  
14 Jun 2007 /  #14
Strabo encountered Germanics ca. 400 B.C which makes it around 2500 years now.
And how I said those people didn't just hatch this moment but developed as a people for awhile now...it's hard to say how long but another 2000 years would be easy...

People don't start to live only when someone writes about them...and Strabo already recognized a distinct people as in rituals, behaviour, stature, believe, language etc....
OP MattB 2 | 16  
14 Jun 2007 /  #15
Strabo encountered Germanics ca. 400 A.D

That would make it 1607 years



Did you know that Tolkien's Middle Earth is firmly based on Germanic mythology, and that the Rohirrim culture as portrayed in the novel is clearly derived from the Anglo-Saxons

Tolkien's books were based on Celtic culture and Anglo-Saxon while the Rohirrim were based on Viking culture. But that's off the point.
Why the hate against Poles and Slavs?
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434  
14 Jun 2007 /  #16
I would

Even if Germans aren't that young as a people, why the ancient hate against Poles or Slavs in general. The Slavic culture isn't very young either and Polish people have most probably the most German blood in them (excluding of course the native Germanic peoples) and vice versa for Germany, due to the two countries' intertwined history.

In the last century the "Erbfeind" was France...so I wouldn't speak of ancient hate.

I've read somewhere (sorry no link) an interesting theory:

During the Völkerwanderung territories in the east which belonged before to germanic tribes were left behind...in waves settler from the East (slavs) came and settled there...as germanic tribes came back/moved east fights ensued....borders were never clearly defined...and that plus different cultures made for uncomfortable neighborhood...

(that's very short and generalized I know but it sounds plausible)

Quoting: Bratwurst Boy
Strabo encountered Germanics ca. 400 A.D

That would make it 1607 years

Sorry...it was B.C....centuries before Tacitus etc...

Tolkien's books were based on Celtic culture and Anglo-Saxon while the Rohirrim were based on Viking culture. But that's off the point.

Vikings were Germanics too...
OP MattB 2 | 16  
14 Jun 2007 /  #17
I see, so that's how it could have started. But why do you seem so anti-Polish? Your first post on this topic was pretty negative after all.
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434  
14 Jun 2007 /  #18
After reading pretty much anti-german crap before (Crow and friends) something just exploded I think....erm....:)
OP MattB 2 | 16  
14 Jun 2007 /  #19
Ahhh, what about your friends, family, people in your neighbourhood? How do they feel about Poles?
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434  
14 Jun 2007 /  #20
Ummm....as Germany played Poland during the Football WC we all waved german flags...but else...we groan regularly about the antics of your twins and have surely some stereotypes down...but don't plan to invade anytime soon...and you?
OP MattB 2 | 16  
14 Jun 2007 /  #21
Hmm, well I won't be able to give you an honest answer because I'm not living in Poland right now, however even where I am, our twins don't look very capable, hope it turns out otherwise though.

Personally, I do have certain bad stereotypes about Germans but I like them in general, I even find the two cultures quite similar :)
ola123  
14 Jun 2007 /  #22
and you

This is not even funny BB.

I can say only for myslef and my friends who all think that Germany is our ok neighbour and there is absolutely no negative opinions towards this nation. It is more positive than anything else. Many people say thet Germans have the most similar culture to ours of all European nations. I have only met friendly Germans and enjoy learning German language. I even thing that to normal people Germans are seen better than before because of BMW team that has polish driver and factories built in Poland that gave some ppl work........ Shame about gov who are no positive towars each other at all. Rant over.
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434  
14 Jun 2007 /  #23
This is not even funny BB.

That happens when a German tries to make a joke....:(
OP MattB 2 | 16  
14 Jun 2007 /  #24
hmmmm

One think I can safely say for myself is that I love Germans when compared to Russians.


Too bad I don't know any Serbs to make a judgement about them :l ( sorry Crow :) )
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434  
14 Jun 2007 /  #25
Germans have had a long relationship with Russia and besides WWII it was quite fruitful for both people...Catherine the Great was German after all...

I think feelings about the Russians are more positive than negative....(the main bad stereotype is "to much vodka")
southern 75 | 7,096  
14 Jun 2007 /  #26
Germans have had a long relationship with Russia and besides WWII it was quite fruitful for both people

Like in Tannenberg in 1914 for example.Or in Berlin in 1954.
The Germans have been besides great admirers of the Soviet Union.
(Marcus Wolf was a good relationship indeed).
OP MattB 2 | 16  
14 Jun 2007 /  #27
Well she's (Catherine) not very popular in Poland I'm afraid, thanks to her partitioning act. Loads of other unpleasant stuff from their side make Russia pretty unpopular in Poland I guess
southern 75 | 7,096  
14 Jun 2007 /  #28
Merckel was engaged in travels to Soviet Union,Putin enjoyed vaccations in East Germany.This is how good connections are made.
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434  
14 Jun 2007 /  #29
The Germans have been besides great admirers of the Soviet Union.

Not of the "Soviet Union" but rather of Russia and her people....Germans tend to have a rather romanticized view on the "russian soul" and our people and economies complement each other well.

"...Germany has a heavy industry with the size and capacity to modernize infrastructure in Russia. Russia in turn has vast natural resources which are of significant interest to the German economy...."

Like in: Germans develop the Tractors which work the vast and rich russian earth! (Figuratively spoken)

Merckel was engaged in travels to Soviet Union,Putin enjoyed vaccations in East Germany.This is how good connections are made.

It does help that Merkel speaks russian and Putin speaks german (his kids go to a german school I've read).

That means to know about each others histories and cultures...that helps alot I think...
southern 75 | 7,096  
14 Jun 2007 /  #30
Germans tend to have a rather romanticized view on the "russian soul

I do not see a romanticized view on the polish soul.

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