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She isn't. Unless you know something the International Olympic Committee don't.


She isn't any sort of man though, is she, and never has been.

And of course, you claim she "refused tests" so how would anyone know?

It's best to wait for the next stages of the legal process she's launched. They will certainly require full state-supervised testing an£ will settle the matter.

OK let's agree to disagree.

( he is still a man though lol)

A man, even with no dick, is still a man. Not a woman.

That is no kind of woman. Anyone can see that.

And HE hasn't launched any legal proceedings. his trainer has admitted it. He has an intersex condition from living in an isolated mountain community. Eg inbreeding. Just like your man in the Eugenides novel.
" intersex" I think it was called.

Yes. I don't think we'll reach common ground, so let's agree to disagree.

She's certainly a woman though and there will doubtless be a lot of coverage of the legal case.

This just shows that the gender binary is something of an illusion and that perhaps the male/female split isn't as rigid as some would like to think.


I see a woman not a man. A butch one, however I personally know even butcher women, some of whom have given birth.

No Jon. Any ' butch' women you know will look.a lot more recognisably feminine than that. You know this. You are insulting your Lesbian friends to suggest this. If they exist.

Well I wish him.best of luck in trying to.prove he is a woman. He will need it. Lol

Know them, do you?

She's certainly a woman, registered as female at birth and who as a professional sportswoman at a high level has had more physical and medical tests in her life so far than anyone reading this.

As I say, let's wait for the next stage in her lawsuit. Joannne Rowling has already backed down and deleted the deliberately offensive statements she made online.

Do I know them ? No. But I don't think you know them either.

No actual real woman could look more manly than Khalif.

And that's without the make up and airbrushing!

Why are you so anxious to see women's sports destroyed anyway?

Why so keen to have men battering women made into an Olympic sport? Mm?

It's OK you don't need to answer. Maybe have a quiet little think about it anyway.

Why?


Don't be silly. She's a woman.

Anyway, let's wait for the trial and the inevitable independent tests.

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I really don't think there will be any trial. First he would need evidence and the only evidence he has produced so far is a fuzzy image of a child wearing a pink dress.
Not going to cut it really in court is it?

I would question you knowing numerous women that look more manly than Khalif, yes. I know several butch lesbians but they are recognizably female. Unlike this one.

I wonder if it's normal for real female athletes from Algeria to spread their private parts over their trainers neck. I doubt it.

Let's see.

There will doubtless be tests. You never know, the results may differ radically from all the other medical and fitness monitoring that she has as a top level sportswoman.

* man

Joanne Rowling?

No, she's still female as far as anyone knows. Then again, she's certainly not had the years of regular medical monitoring that high-level sportswomen like Imane have so who knows? Has she been tested?

Oh dont be silly Jon. You know I was talking about the male boxer from Algeria.

Having the menopause doesn't make any woman less than a woman. (Btw Your hatred is showing.)

((Oh ! You edited out the bit where you seemed to suggest that post menopausal women aren't actually women! I suppose it did show a poor grasp of bio chemistry. ))

Having XY chromosomes on the other hand, is a bit of a giveaway.

You mean the female boxer, since there's no evidence that she's anything other than female.

There are certainly women with XY however they menstruate providing they have oestrogen supplements and can conceive and give birth naturally. Most don't have any significant difference in muscle mass or bone structure.

There is no evidence however that Imane is that type of woman.

It would be an issue if she were XXX or XXXX however superfemales (like most XYY and XYYY supermales) if they do competitive sport at all would be in the Paralympics due to associated cognitive disorders.

Let's wait until the next stage and see what the results of her tests are.

" there are certainly women with XY"

No Jon there really really aren't. You are now showing a really poor grasp of bio chemistry.

XY = man. Nobody with XY menstruates or gets pregnant.

It will be shown that he is a deformed man. A deformed man is not a woman. Sorry. Not even when they choose it. Still men, the lot of them.

He certainly looks a bit cognitively challenged now you mention it.

There are. It's more common than you think.


Really??

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Imane Khalif is still a man though.

Ooh maybe he will sue me!!

I doubt she'd bother. She's too busy training for the sport in which she's finally excelling after years of practice.

As I say, best wait for the test results.

Who you gonna believe... people with a vested interest in the matter or your lying eyes?

Jon, he won't take a test because it would show that he is male. If there was to be any test, it would have been done by now, wouldn't it? As you mentioned he does look somewhat " cognitively challenged " . To me he looks inbred. That's probably why he has a DSD.
To paraphrase a great woman, " a layer of thick make up and heavy airbrushing doesn't make a woman".

Also, he was actually investigated by the International Boxing Association and suspended from competing in their championships last year....after failing a gender test.
Guess the Olympics is different. Maybe run by more woman haters I don't know . There's a lot of it about these days

Just as a woman who had her breasts amputated is not a man.

Roz, you are a genius and I am proud of you.

A test.

If the IOC who are experts in sporting matters (and who don't have a vested interest in stoking controversy) are satisfied that she's a natural born female, and someone like Joanne Rowling (who very much does have a vested interest,) says otherwise, who is more believable?


She wasn't "investigated" at all and the r*SSian backed IBA have since admitted this. The matter is covered in post 608.

If you're getting all hot and bothered about an issue, it's good to check the actual facts before posting. So far you've said she's both been tested and not tested, and now you're saying that she's been investigated by a spurious organisation who have admitted that she hasn't been investigated by them.

Let's face it, you hate trans people so much that you're hating on someone who isn't trans but who you think looks trans.

Objection, your honor. Trans women look like women, sometimes indistinguishable. This one looks like a guy in the ring.

So does Jane Crouch, also a championship boxer. As far as I know, nobody's ever questioned her gender.

I actually watch women's boxing sometimes; a friend is a big boxing fan and subscribes to a TV channel that only shows it. Most female boexrs look a bit like blokes.

It's a shame she's been dragged into the terf/trans issue since she's personally neither.

And of course it's nothing about sport; it's simply transphobia.

Division of sports is not by gender (culturally specific ideas about the sexes) but by the immutable biological category of sex.

Moving forward, the categories should be:

female only (with chromosonal and other tests when necessary)

open (no testing necessary)

'trans' identifying males (like William "Lia" Thomas) should not be allowed to compete against females (except as novelty entertainment events)

Cases of intersex people (like the ZA runner or Algerian boxer) should be handled on an individual basis... they can enter the open category or the female category if they pass anatomical/chromosonal tests.

That of course is a matter for the IOC and is a political hot potato. Most of those with strong views about it don't give a sh1t about sport; they just dislike the existence and visibility trans people.

In this case however, the woman in question is a woman and always has been. Her muscle mass and bone structure are consistent with being female, her testosterone levels aren't elevated and no characteristics about her body give her any unfair advantage. She's just big and strong (like many sportswomen) and a very good boxer.


Except of course there's no evidence that she's intersex.

BTW, most women who are XY do not have any particular physical characteristics that distinguish them from other women or give any advatage in sport.

In cases where there's any unfair advantage (due to gender or any other issue) this of course needs to be addressed. That may not go the way TERFs so aggressively demand.

I just dislike the visibility of men intruding in female spaces... whether restrooms

x.com/AmiriKing/status/1674798921103855621

prison

x.com/sot6ixtv/status/1628104968778416152

or in sports...

x.com/JournalistJill/status/1694292383473471493

None of the three are women. Two are autogynephiles who've found a way to make everyone participate in their kink and the other is simply mentally disturbed...

All that too, however the lady in question isn't a threat and as an Algerian woman has spent most of her life in female only spaces.

There's also two things I've noticed (and may get yelled at for the second point).

Firstly, most of the anti-trans stuff is from boomer women. That's understandable; they had to fight for abortion rights, equal pay and in the UK the right to open a bank account without their husbands' permission. They also had to batle entrenched conservative attitudes and did make genuine progress. The younger generation, the 'Zoomers' don't seem to have an issue with trans matters at all.

Secondly, I've a good friend who is generally a very reasonable person. She does however get really angry about trans issues. One thing that set her off into a rage was when an NHS Trust (the one in Brighton where there are a lot of FTM transmen) published a health information leaflet that referred to "people who menstruate" rather than women and the right-wing media picked up on this. She went ballistic when Rowling, Bindel etc were publcising it all. The thing is, she hasn't menstruated since she had a hysterectomy decades ago and now she's past 70 she's got facial hair, a deep voice and could pass for a man if the lights were dim and she had trousers on.


Dangerous and obsessive nutters. Annoying blokes with tampon fetishes.They help turn the public against people who genuinely don't fit into the gender binary.

No Jon I don't " hate" anyone I just think that women's spaces and sports don't need to be be invaded by men.

I am not the kind of woman who centres men in her feminism. I know that's difficult for some poor menz to get their heads round but do try. Bleating " hate" as soon as a woman speaks up in defence of women's spaces kind of shows you up as anti woman.

BTW Semanya fathered a child. Still bleating that he is a " woman"?

I would also get angry about " people who menstruate". There's a word for us and it's " woman".

There have always been people who don't fit the gender binary. However a gender non conforming man is not a woman. He is still a man.

She isn't a man unless you know something her doctors don't.

Castor Semenya, btw, is intersex with male characteristics. There's no evidence at all that the Algerian woman is.


The only person 'bleating' here is you. Learn some manners. I don't insult you; don't insult me.