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How serious is existence of Lithuania as independent state between Poland and Russia ?


Crow 147 | 7,398    
18 Nov 2016  #1
Judging by the events that accelerate, coming the logical question, having in mind entire background of situation - How serious is existence of Lithuania as independent state between Poland and Russia ?

L

Lithuania
mafketis 17 | 6,520    
18 Nov 2016  #2
Let's not beat around the bush, you want Poland and/or Russia to invade and wipe Lithuania off the map because it's not Slavic enough? Am I right?

Lithuanians will seriously not agree with that prospect. It was hard for them to obtain independence from both countries and a large majority of the population would fight back against Slavic domination.
OP Crow 147 | 7,398    
18 Nov 2016  #3
I want? I don`t want anything. We all know that tensions exist, more or less inspired from all sides mentioned in title of the thread and, plus, having in mind outside influences and historical factors. So, I think that topic deserve examination.
mafketis 17 | 6,520    
18 Nov 2016  #4
So, I think that topic deserve examination.

Well a large majority of Lithuanian citizens are _extremely_ serious about the existence of Lithuania as an independent state and do not want to be in anyone's "sphere of influence".

Examine that.
OP Crow 147 | 7,398    
  18 Nov 2016  #5
Lithuania should immediately follow Serbian example and declare its military neutrality on global military alliances. Meaning, should go out of NATO. At once. If they failed to do so, it would be futile to complaint later. Tomorrow could be late. Very late.
Wincig 2 | 152    
18 Nov 2016  #6
How serious is existence of Lithuania as independent state between Poland and Russia ?

Wouldn't then the same apply to Estonia and Latvia?
OP Crow 147 | 7,398    
18 Nov 2016  #7
Well, pattern is the same. Small countries, with people of Slavic origin, that due to historical circumstances become non-Slavic, while tolerated by much stronger Slavs. Now, those same smaller countries continuing to represent problem to Slavs in the region, serving to hostile non-Slavic powers.

But, I do feel pity for Lithuania. We Serbians had positive experience with Lithuanians during Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth where we Serbians played role of military elite. Just back in those time, Lithuanians at least shown minimal respect for Slavic culture and people. But, from long time ago Lithuania turned to Germanics and Nazism. Today, they don`t have respect even for the Poles. Its a pity actually.
gregy741 4 | 1,232    
  18 Nov 2016  #8
We Serbians had positive experience with Lithuanians during Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth

they so called "lithuanians" during polish-Lithuanian commonwealth had nothing in common with todays "lithuanians" apart same name.
they have as much in common as roma people with roman empire ect.
Lithuanians in polish-lithuanian commonwealth were mostly ruthenians(slavs of ortodox religion),they had no idea about even existence of "lithuanian" language.lithuanian dukes,kings,nobility-they were all ruthenians

todays lithuanians are descendants of some somogotian fishermans,who managed to preserve some primitive language,and this language was "upgraded" or recreated in 19 century.and added some tribal nationalizm with fake history
peterweg 36 | 2,321    
  18 Nov 2016  #9
Poland would seriously assist Lithuania defending itself agaainst Russian agression, with serious military hardware and serious military personel.

Crow, go F*** yourself.
Ironside 47 | 9,338    
18 Nov 2016  #10
How serious is existence of Lithuania as independent state between Poland and Russia ?

Being part of the NATO alliance that country seems to be rather serious about their independence.
-----------------

added some tribal nationalizm with fake history

They should wise up and stop discriminatory practises against Poles in the Lithuanian. If not one day it will bite them into backside.
OP Crow 147 | 7,398    
18 Nov 2016  #11
they so called "lithuanians" during polish-Lithuanian commonwealth had nothing in common with todays "lithuanians" apart same name.

Yes, its very sad story.

Poland would seriously assist Lithuania defending itself agaainst Russian agression, with serious military hardware and serious military personel.

its all questionable, my dear.

As you see for yourself, Lithuanians betrayed principles of old alliance with Poles and Serbians. Actually, Lithuanians betrayed themselves. And I think that Serbians won`t allow any escalation between Poland and Russia. No, it won`t happen and, whole NATO can fart from desperation because of such a Serbians stance.

As for Lithuanians. Well, after they betrayed themselves and spat on Poles and Russians, we Serbians owe them nothing. Plus, they sided with Germanics and Anglos, embracing Nazi ideology that these days turning into Nazi-Islam. Who knows, maybe now only Russians can save them.

Crow, go F*** yourself.

Thank you but I have something else on my mind.

Being part of the NATO alliance that country seems to be rather serious about their independence.

Serious or not, they provoke Russia and judging by development, Russia won`t tolerate that for long. NATO or no NATO, Trump or no Trump, I think, after conflict, Lithuanians themselves wouldn`t care for anything, if you understand me.

They should wise up and stop discriminatory practises against Poles in the Lithuanian. If not one day it will bite them into backside.

Yes, that, too. Arrogance of their political representatives is famous already. I heard that entire society actually goes arrogant.
mafketis 17 | 6,520    
18 Nov 2016  #12
I think, after conflict, Lithuanians themselves wouldn`t care for anything, if you understand me.

Yes, you want to kill them all. Is genocide the Serbian national sport?

Russia won`t tolerate that for long

Let's play pretend: Russia invades Poland whose side are you on? Poland's or Russia's? No bullhocky about trying to mediate or the crucial role of Serbia. Whose side are you on if it comes to conflict? Poland's or Russia's?
OP Crow 147 | 7,398    
  18 Nov 2016  #13
Yes, you want to kill them all. Is genocide the Serbian national sport?

See, that was that anti-Serbian propaganda all about, all these years. To prepare ground for hate on Serbs, while Serbs were targeted and in case that Serbians manage to retaliate.

But, it doesn`t matter anymore. Winner would write history. We Serbs learned that lesson. So we shall win.

Let's play pretend: Russia invades Poland whose side are you on? Poland's or Russia's?

Russia won`t attack Poland and won`t expose itself to risk to lose alliance with Serbians. That`s how shall be.

And, you should stop involving Poland at a time when even Britain deflecting from EU, when even USA deflecting from its NATO obligations. They started and they now deflecting. How convenient. This with Lithuania, if crisis escalate, is part of same war that started with western European, USA and Islamic league`s attack on Yugoslavia. Plus, many other conflicts in which global powers engaged in last 20 years, which had aim to encircle Russia with NATO and, from Russian side, to repel that encirclement.

So, what Poland has with that? If not on same side with Yugoslavia and Serbians, Poland should at least refrain itself from any involvement in conflict. What I know, Poles are decent Slavs and they won`t betray Serbians. Poles won`t side with Germans, Turks and Saudis against us.
mafketis 17 | 6,520    
18 Nov 2016  #14
Russia won`t attack Poland

You can't know that. Putin's Russia has already invaded one country and threatened to invade more.

Poland or Russia?

If you refuse to answer that means you would side with Russia (or you're a despicable coward afraid to let your true feelings known).

Which one?
peterweg 36 | 2,321    
  18 Nov 2016  #15
its all questionable, my dear.

No it isn't.

Poland would uphold Article 5. Failure to do so would subject Poland to another invasion for the Russians.

nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm

As you see for yourself, Lithuanians betrayed principles of old alliance with Poles and Serbians.

Nobody gives a flying **** about that rubbish. Poland will rapidly commit to collective defense, because it has no choice - failure to do so will destroy Poland.
mafketis 17 | 6,520    
18 Nov 2016  #16
Serbians won`t allow any escalation between Poland and Russia

And how, pray tell, could they prevent it?
OP Crow 147 | 7,398    
  18 Nov 2016  #17
Which one?

If Russia cross the borders of Poland and attack, then I am sure, Serbians would side with Poles.

So, Russia won`t attack Poland and, Poles would refrain themselves from attacking Russians because they know that this time Russia and Serbians sided to respond to attack of common Slavic foe. Same foe that attacked Yugoslavia, sponsoring Nazis in Croatia, sponsoring mujaheeines in Bosnia and Kosovo and sponsoring Nazi banderists in Ukraine. If that foe decide to spread front on Lithuania, so be it and Poland should then abandon NATO and side with Serbians and Russians.

And how, pray tell, could they prevent it?

That`s how it function. Serbians are point of balance and when final moment come, both- Poland and Russia will align themselves with Serbians because Serbian foes also regularly represent foes of Poles and Russians.

How act Serbia? Serbia don`t act but just stand. Stand. Its our foes who picking us and that lead to establishing of balance between Poles and Russians. Their internal patriotic elements care of it, carefully monitored by the rest of Slavic world- Czechs, Slovaks, Bulgarians.... while Serbians merely encouraging that process.
OP Crow 147 | 7,398    
  18 Nov 2016  #18
Nobody gives a flying **** about that rubbish. Poland will rapidly commit to collective defense, because it has no choice - failure to do so will destroy Poland.

Poland do have choice, in situation when NATO mistaken and attacked Serbians, while Russia shows signals that act on the side of Serbs. Polish patriots should then choose to join in war against NATO. That`s only way for Poland to survive. Slavic Poland.

Actually, strategic mistake of leading NATO and EU powers was to attack Serbians. That way they turned Poland against themselves and forced Poland to sooner or later abandon NATO.
OP Crow 147 | 7,398    
  18 Nov 2016  #19
LATEST NEWS - situation possibly already escalate

Lithuanians fear Putin plans to "test NATO"

Source: B92, BBC Friday, November 18, 2016 | 12:49
b92/eng/news/world.php?yyyy=2016&mm=11&dd=18&nav_id=99728

l

Lithuanian officials have said that "the Russian threat is growing" - while fear of a possible "Russian invasion" is spreading.

"Russia insists it is not a threat, arguing that NATO is responsible for stoking regional tensions by expanding eastwards and moving its military hardware towards Russian borders," said the British broadcaster.

Lyzko 19 | 5,755    
18 Nov 2016  #20
The Baltic States were under the Soviet heel for so very long that by the time the early '90's rolled around, they were already prepared, at least psychologically, for the freedom from Russian domination for which they had hungered for generations:-)

Poland and Lithuania also share a common cultural heritage, as Poland's foremost 19th century bard, namely Mickiewicz, considered his country as Lithuania, even though he wrote exclusively in and surely set the standard for Polish!
OP Crow 147 | 7,398    
  18 Nov 2016  #21
The Baltic States were under the Soviet heel for so very long that by the time the early '90's rolled around, they were already prepared, at least psychologically, for the freedom from Russian domination for which they had hungered for generations:-)

I agree. And how they using that freedom? Are they independent? In fact, they comprehend their independence as free choice not to be independent but subject of (Germanic) civilization that is in conflict with Slavic world. So what should they expect from Slavs?

Poland and Lithuania also share a common cultural heritage,

to some degree. Then, Lithuanians entirely decided not to exist as Slavs.

as Poland's foremost 19th century bard, namely Mickiewicz, considered his country as Lithuania,

you speak of Adam Mickiewicz (1798-1855)? If so then he thought highly of Serbian epic poetry and chose it as a theme of his lectures at Collège de France. You say he is of old Lithuanian origin?

You do know that oldest Serbian ethno-epic poetry actually don`t differ ancient Lithuania and Poland? For ancient Serbians Poles and Lithuanians were Ledjani (Ledeni-Ljudi), meaning in Eng. `Ice people`, `People from the frozen land`. By some, these ethnic label for Poles/Lithuanians refers on ancient times when our common ancients (from North) and (from South) communicated and when southern population (from warmer climate) simple designated population (from colder climate) as `people from frozen land`. That could be linguistic insight into life of our common ancestors during Ice age. See, Goethe, Grimm brothers and J.R.R.Tolkien, all examined Serbian language for its ancient dimension. Many Europeans who grow up with fairy tales of Grimm brothers even don`t know that Grimm brothers were inspired by Serbian folklore and epic poetry that via Goethe come to them thanks to Serbian linguist and collector of old verbal traditional songs, Vuk Stefanovic.

Alright, that`s another story...

In any case, I contemplated a lot on Lithuania in past few years and had hope (rather naive dream) of restoration of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Its all sad how they fallen to the Germanization. And who knows what would now be. Is it even possible to come back from germanization? With Russian help? Or, with Polish help?

even though he wrote exclusively in and surely set the standard for Polish!

he did? Same Adam Mickiewicz? Great man he was then
peterweg 36 | 2,321    
19 Nov 2016  #22
Potential defense secretary, gets it.

"NATO isn't a charity," Cotton said. "We're not a member of NATO out of humanitarian impulse. We're a member of the NATO alliance because it protects our interests."

breakingdefense.com/2016/11/sen-cotton-trump-ally-defends-nato-critiques-putin
OP Crow 147 | 7,398    
19 Nov 2016  #23
I think, if Russia label Lithuania as state that isn`t serious, changes would occur. What kind of changes, one can`t tell with certainty. For sure, Lithuania don`t helping here but pushing things exactly in that direction.

Now, Lithuania bordering with Russian enclave Kaliningrad. Who knows, Russia may decide to establish land connection with Kaliningrad. Who knows. It may then lure Russia to digest Estonia and Latvia, too. Just, in that case, it would jeopardize balance between Poland and Russia on Baltic and I don`t like it. I don`t know how could Russia compensate Poland, in that scenario.
Wincig 2 | 152    
19 Nov 2016  #24
Your land connection fantasy between Russia and Kaliningrad doesn't remind you of something similar more than half a century go? Dantzig corridor for anyone? We all know what followed
OP Crow 147 | 7,398    
  19 Nov 2016  #25
I think that Poland needs to start to talk to Russia. Nicely. Without humiliation but, nicely. We Serbians would do our part but, Poland should make a move. Nice one.

See, I don`t think how is Poland in danger and should talk with Russia about it. No, its not about that. Its just, regions (map/borders) around Poland changes. What would Poland gain there, depend more from Russia then on Germany. With USA-Russian understandings and with Pope`s blessings to Russia, I think that Poland can gain a lot of if just her politicians aren`t agents of Britain, France and Germany. If they are, well, not only that Poland won`t acquire new territories but, Poland may found itself in troubles.
mafketis 17 | 6,520    
19 Nov 2016  #26
What would Poland gain there, depend more from Russia then on Germany

Poland had that, it was called the PRL and Polish people hated it. Why go back?
OP Crow 147 | 7,398    
19 Nov 2016  #27
PRL

What is PRL mafketise? Is it kind of PMS?
mafketis 17 | 6,520    
19 Nov 2016  #28
What is PRL mafketise?

Polska Rzeczpospolita Ludowa (The People's Republic of Poland aka Soviet satellite aka "Communist Poland")

It pretty muched sucked donkeys, Crow-ie
OP Crow 147 | 7,398    
  19 Nov 2016  #29
So that is PRL. Thanks for explaining.

But, why would today`s Poland remind of PRL? USA have its interests, Russia have its interests, Britain, Serbia, France, China, Germany, Turkey, Japan, etc, etc. All have their interests. For sure Poland too have its interest.

Then, borders are changing, with amin from Poland or without amin from Poland. So, what is gonna be? Poland should be shy? Sado-mazohistic maybe? Or, Poland should be vigilant and open?

See, only Poland which is aware of its own interests and shows intent to fight for those interests, may deserve right to be one of global centers in world that globalize and now, as we all see, turning into the Multi-Polar world. Rule or be ruled, that`s in question now. Show muscles, backbone. Get erection.
mafketis 17 | 6,520    
19 Nov 2016  #30
Russia have its interests

When it comes to neighboring countries Russia's interest (historically and now) appears to be single minded and have a single goal - to dominate. Countries bordering Russia have two choices - agree to or resist Russian domination. Please find counterexamples of Russia having cordial normal diplomatic relations with a bordering country.

Poles are not interested in being dominated by Russia no matter how much the idea may please Serbia....


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