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Poland being the powerhouse of Europe



Sobieski1 1 | 14    
4 Jan 2012  #1

When the power shift changes from west to east could poland be the powerhouse of europe so close to germany but far enough away from the PIGS and still profitable even in a recession.


JonnyM 12 | 2,634    
4 Jan 2012  #2

When the power shift changes from west to east

When or if?
OP Sobieski1 1 | 14    
4 Jan 2012  #3

Its not a matter of IF its a matter of WHEN and every year the eastern economies close that gap very fast. some state 8 years from now the chinese and indian economys will over shadow the west. The rise of the east is what Rumsfeld would called "A known known", "the unknown unknown" is the year.
JonnyM 12 | 2,634    
4 Jan 2012  #4

The rise of the east is what Rumsfeld would called "A known known",

Not someone noted for reliability. If you want to see which part of the world is on the up, visit the oil-rich gulf states - Qatar and KSA come to mind. And they aren't investing much in PL compared to Western Europe.
MediaWatch 10 | 947    
4 Jan 2012  #5

When the power shift changes from west to east could poland be the powerhouse of europe so close to germany but far enough away from the PIGS and still profitable even in a recession.

Poland is going to have a hard time becoming a powerhouse if its birthrate is not increased.
OP Sobieski1 1 | 14    
4 Jan 2012  #6

Gulf state you mean the muslim countrys hahaha how you make me laugh oil is not expensive the producers dont make the money the tax applied in westrn countrys makes up the profit not the producers we in thw west have massive reserves of the black stuff and our polictians can get what ever price they want for it oil isnt in short supply and hence the price the producers demand is not really negotaible we got iraq, afgan and shorty irans oil. the arab nations have no chance. The arab shieks will get rich but not the country the arab sheiks then move to london and live their lifes very comfortably while the rest of the country rots.
JonnyM 12 | 2,634    
4 Jan 2012  #7

Poland is going to have a hard time becoming a powerhouse if its birthrate is not increased.

If anything the opposite is true. Poland will not become rich through labour intensive industrial production - it will however always have agricultural resources (including a good water supply) which will become increasingly important in the future. That and a combination of high skills, a very strong welfare state and sovereign investment. It's better to be closer to a Luxembourg than an India.

the muslim countrys hahaha how you make me laugh oil is not expensive the producers dont make the money the tax applied in westrn country

he arab shieks will get rich but not the country the arab sheiks then move to london and live their lifes very comfortably while the rest of the country rots.

Evidently you've never been here.
MediaWatch 10 | 947    
4 Jan 2012  #8

Poland is a European country. India isn't so I think its more accurate to measure a European country against other European countries.

In general, the European countries that have been powerhouses all have bigger populations then Poland. Russia and all the EU richest nations Britain, France, Italy, Germany have larger populations then Poland and it has only helped their GDP. Even though Russia proportionally is doing worse then mainland European countries, at least it used its huge population to seize resource rich land over its history to sustain itself now.

For what its worth, here in North America, most Mexicans are dirt poor and uneducated, but they use their huge population to come over the border to make things better for their ethnic group as a whole.

Russia and Germany would never have been powerhouses if they had the population size of Hungary, Slovakia, Chech Republic, let alone Luxembourg.
OP Sobieski1 1 | 14    
4 Jan 2012  #9

Some good intelligent comments being posted sorry about the dig on gulf states. I have not been to oil rich nations but i have been to muslim countrys before and the rich really dont care for the poor i cant see the oil sheiks been much different can you
JonnyM 12 | 2,634    
4 Jan 2012  #10

In general, the European countries that have been powerhouses all have bigger populations then Poland. Russia and all the EU richest nations Britain, France, Italy, Germany have larger populations then Poland and it has only helped their GDP.

In the days of industry.

Russia proportionally is doing worse then mainland European countries, at least it used its huge population to seize resource rich land over its history to sustain itself now.

Not an option today.

Russia and Germany would never have been powerhouses if they had the population size of Hungary, Slovakia, Chech Republic, let alone Luxembourg

A false comparison.

I have not been to oil rich nations but i have been to muslim countrys before and the rich really dont care for the poor i cant see the oil sheiks been much different can you

There's something in that - one interesting thing is that the populations are small and they intermarry, so everyone has a millionaire uncle.
OP Sobieski1 1 | 14    
4 Jan 2012  #11

So their abit like the muslims swiss.
JonnyM 12 | 2,634    
4 Jan 2012  #12

That's a good way of looking at it - only they're much richer and getting richer all the time. Poland is a bit different - it needs to export educated skilled people and capitalise on natural resources. There isn't much point having heavy industry when China can always undercut them.
BBman - | 345    
4 Jan 2012  #13

Poland is going to have a hard time becoming a powerhouse if its birthrate is not increased.

Don't worry MW, the EU will flood Poland with uneducated and unskilled 3rd world labourers. They'll save the day.
Harry 81 | 13,431    
4 Jan 2012  #14

" W, the EU will flood Poland with uneducated and unskilled 3rd world labourers."
And yet another American who doesn't understand the first thing about the EU but doesn't let that stop him mouthing off about it....
MediaWatch 10 | 947    
4 Jan 2012  #15

Don't worry MW, the EU will flood Poland with uneducated and unskilled 3rd world labourers. They'll save the day.

If that happens, Poland is a doomed country.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,778    
5 Jan 2012  #16

If anything the opposite is true. Poland will not become rich through labour intensive industrial production - it will however always have agricultural resources (including a good water supply) which will become increasingly important in the future. That and a combination of high skills, a very strong welfare state and sovereign investment. It's better to be closer to a Luxembourg than an India.

this is as true as it gets on this forum. well done JonnyM!
BBman - | 345    
5 Jan 2012  #17

And yet another American who doesn't understand the first thing about the EU but doesn't let that stop him mouthing off about it....

I'm not american and i know full well what happens when a country is flooded with useless people. Thanks for coming out limey.
Polsyr 6 | 777    
5 Jan 2012  #18

visit the oil-rich gulf states - Qatar and KSA come to mind

It certainly is NOT on the up. My business there has shrunk to less than 2008 levels. Media lies and the boom is just a myth. My business in Poland is actually growing at the moment. I work in a construction and manufacturing related industry.
wielki pan 2 | 250    
5 Jan 2012  #19

My business in Poland is actually growing at the moment. I work in a construction and manufacturing related industry.

lol, this may be a short time growth, but it will soon crash!
sa11y 5 | 331    
5 Jan 2012  #20

The arab shieks will get rich but not the country the arab sheiks then move to london and live their lifes very comfortably while the rest of the country rot

The issue here is corruption - the less developed country, the bigger the corruption.
BUT - Gulf Countries (look at UAE, Qatar, Kuwait) - those countries have very good standard of life. Yes, sheikhs are filthy rich (they had enough time to get rich), but at least they build structure and facilities that others benefit from.
southern 76 | 7,116    
5 Jan 2012  #21

For example they build these magnificent golf facilities our excellent barns for their horses.
sa11y 5 | 331    
5 Jan 2012  #22

Haha, at least animals are taken care of :) But seriously - those golf courses and stables need maintenance, so they are creating employment. Not that they pay them well anyway, but at least a poor folk has a choice... Live in a stable with royal horses or live in the desert... And I'm sure royal horses live in good facilities :)
southern 76 | 7,116    
5 Jan 2012  #23

Out is a miracle horses live still in barns while their servants stay at houses.
sa11y 5 | 331    
5 Jan 2012  #24

horses live still in barns while their servants stay at houses

...even better... I was being sarcastic...
southern 76 | 7,116    
5 Jan 2012  #25

I am not sure about the welfare of polish horses.
hythorn 3 | 581    
5 Jan 2012  #26

Poland will not become rich through labour intensive industrial production - it will however always have agricultural resources (including a good water supply) which will become increasingly important in the future. That and a combination of high skills, a very strong welfare state and sovereign investment.

the rain fall in Poland is not great. Central and Northern Poland is one of the driest regions in Europe. in fact you have to travel to Spain to find such low rainfall in an EU country

the fertility of the soil is not great either and the harsh winters make farm land far less productive than in Western Europe

plus points are the fact that there is a load of shale oil in Poland, oil and natural gas, a steady wind for electric generation and lots of coal

political stability, a well educated workforce and a reasonable level of law and order helps too
JonnyM 12 | 2,634    
5 Jan 2012  #27

the rain fall in Poland is not great. Central and Northern Poland is one of the driest regions in Europe. in fact you have to travel to Spain to find such low rainfall in an EU country

the fertility of the soil is not great either and the harsh winters make farm land far less productive than in Western Europe

Yet Poland is still a major agricultural exporter and has the potential for more.

plus points are the fact that there is a load of shale oil in Poland, oil and natural gas, a steady wind for electric generation and lots of coal

The Oil/Gas In Place is mostly unconventional reserves, meaning it can help the national balance sheet rather more easily than it can be extracted. Good that it's there, but hellish to extract.

It certainly is NOT on the up. My business there has shrunk to less than 2008 levels. Media lies and the boom is just a myth. My business in Poland is actually growing at the moment. I work in a construction and manufacturing related industry.

Your business might not be - others are doing well. Doha is a giant building site, and booming.
peterweg 36 | 2,292    
5 Jan 2012  #28

There isn't much point having heavy industry when China can always undercut them.

Chinese wages are rocketing. For instance, the pay for programmers in Poland is the same as china.

the rain fall in Poland is not great. Central and Northern Poland is one of the driest regions in Europe. in fact you have to travel to Spain to find such low rainfall in an EU country

the fertility of the soil is not great either and the harsh winters make farm land far less productive than in Western Europe

Yet Poland is a food exporter and if it used more intensive techniques it could produce triple the UK's production (for example). Soil quality is good and rainfall sufficient - plus there is hugh water table reserves. Poland is not a Spanish desert, Northern Spain is extremely wet which probably skews the numbers.

and the harsh winters make farm land far less productive than in Western Europe

And yet farmers can have two or three crops per year.
JonnyM 12 | 2,634    
5 Jan 2012  #29

Chinese wages are rocketing. For instance, the pay for programmers in Poland is the same as china.

That's true for the good jobs. For the crap jobs they've still got a supply of workers from places where there's only one garment per village, to cover nudity if an official comes. Where people still starve.

Poland is a food exporter and if it used more intensive techniques it could produce triple the UK's production

Very true - this will keep Poland going for the foreseeable.
southern 76 | 7,116    
5 Jan 2012  #30

In case vodka becomes the fuell of the future Poland can easily become the powerhouse of Europe.




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