Communist era 'newspeak' appeals the most to Poland PiS supporters (what a surprise)

Traitors have no honour !

How many East Germans were professional NVA members? A fraction of the total population; the rest was drafted.

seems you are considering yourself to be this 'educated elite', so I will only point one massive flaw in your thinking - do you remember PiS getting 80% votes?

this is also another 'meme' created for people like you - considering themselves as 'better' part of society. In fact, whenever I talk with those 'young educated' they quickly become agressive, because all they have is bunch of slogans they learned from TV, and anyone with at least two working braincells is able to easily show them how stupid or ignorant they are. They are easiest target for manipulation - precisely because they think they are smart and 'propaganda-proof'

'totalitarian rhetoric', EVEN IF this was actually true (do you actually care to provide some examples?), this would be only rhetoric. Current goverment does not use rhetoric - they ARE totalitarian - ACTA being newest example

Among the uneducated US Polonia - yes.


That's exactly, word for word, how PiS supporters behave. This entire thread contains proof of it - even when given evidence, they immediately dismiss it as propoganda because the Dear Leader told them so. They often claim to "know the truth" and will not entertain any rational debate - most young PO supporters will actually have a very open mind and are very open to better alternatives.


And you honestly think that the Dear Leader wouldn't sign it (and ratify it) straight away, bearing in mind his brothers comments about internet users?

We all know that the only reason he opposes it is for the sake of opposing (and the fact that most of his supporters couldn't afford to buy the films/music/etc anyway.

The current government is anything but totalitarian - in fact, it shows how short your memories are if you've already forgotten what a totalitarian government was.

No, we don't support PiS, we simply disagree with your arrogant, know it all attitude. The very man who claims to be a political expert is one who can't even hold a political debate in the language of our land!!!!


All we know from this thread is as before-

->your absolute hatred for US Polonia
->your obsession against PiS, anyone who disagrees with you is a default PiS supporter!

We know your vile opinions already...thanks.

WORDS WORDS WORDS

examples please
I gave you clear example. Please provide something that would actually prove your pov

I dont have to claim I know "the Truth' - it is simple logic, simple math and knowlege of newest history you don't have - plaase notice that is YOU who only drop generic stereotypes. Not even single sensible example. You even already know that I am radio maryja fan and Kaczynski supporter, oh, my elitist everything-knowning smartie.

You 'accuse' me that i'm 'conditioned'... hahahaha You are not? Oh, what an unique snowflake you are. I will tell you 'the truth": every human being is 'conditioned'. Thats how we are. One of those simple truths your friends forgot to tell you about. They are probably too educated to know this

And those mythical 'educated poles', which you considering so reliable - who exactly they are? What do they know? How do you know that they are right? What is their background? What their parent did in communist era? because, most 'proliberal' elitists I know personally had their fathers working either in military or police during that times (and no, this is not something to be proud of). They are simply defending their families. And I know their past ONLY because I know them very well for many years. YOU DO NOT. I repeat - you know sh!t about Poland. I read tons of stuff and press from far left to far right, I know reasoning behind agendas of different political parties - DO YOU? Ah.. probably your friends already explained you everything. that's great...

Nah, you support PiS through and through and only deny it when it's inappropriate to admit to it - for instance, in educated company. I noticed that after the last electoral humiliation, 30% of Poles voted for PiS and only about 20% actually admitted it. There's always an amusing discrepancy between total votes and total supporters - this forum saw at least two, maybe three clowns suddenly claiming to have voted for Nowa Prawica despite showing no pro-Korwin Mikke sentiment before.

And, uh...what makes you think I can't hold a debate in the language of Poland? I had an interesting chat the other day with someone about local politics, actually.


edit


That's because they normally are. Or worse.

It is terrible amusing watching people spout the same old tired PiS slogans while denying to be PiS supporters, though.

It is terrible amusing watching people spout the same old tired PO slogans

words words words...

What's funny is your accusation that I vote PO when I actually voted..hmm..three times now against them.

When was the last time anyone supporting PO threw stones at the PiS headquarters, I wonder?

another flash of 'higher intelligence'.. can you point where I precisely did that?


stones? Stones are so old-fashioned...

youtube.com/watch?v=MeB--3N0jIE

this is product of your friend's infinite wisdom

Let's be honest - the statistics say it all. PO voters are richer and smarter than PiS voters. End.


Wow. One isolated incident is all you can produce?

And at least he had the courage to do something, unlike PiS 'bohater internetowy'.

brilliant answer. thank you for proving my point.

You are so pathetic and arrogant that I see no point in further discussion

eot

No, thank you - after all, you're choosing to disregard official figures in favour of the usual PiS "BLAH BLAH I CANT HEAR YOU FINGERS IN MY EARS BLAH BLAH BLAH" nonsense. Thanks :)


Usual PiS tactic - "I WON'T DISCUSS BLAH BLAH YOU'RE WRONG BLAH BLAH FINGERS IN EARS".

No wonder the educated voters laugh and sneer at PiS types.

there is entire soviet union that proves I am right (by its very own collapse)
Christ, people here are SO IGNORANT!! Its beyond words

the reason for collapse was Russian - Afghan War that was lost - in 1979 - a year before events we are talking about. Thanks to delivery of modern weapon to Afghan soldiers/warriors by CIA, Russian army took MASSIVE losses in both people and military hardware, and was direct reason why Russians were so afraid of helping jaruzelski - they were weakened and thinking that the same may happen in Poland - especially that CIA was already looking at Poland and started quietly helping Solidarnosc financially. Its not like they didn't have more tanks and airplanes - they obviously had, but war dried them financially, they also had huge problems with food production - socialist economy was extremely inefficient, and Poland's role in soviet block was primarly to "feed russia" - they simply had no interest in helping jaruzelski and turning polish society against themselves by direct military actions - it never worked in the past. it was way more reasonable to sacrifice him and establish 'brand new' puppet government.

ONLY REASON for martial law was to save asses of jaruzelski and his fellow commies, and he did it only because he still believed in this communist bullshit (even if he was surrounded by cynical players who know how pitiful is all this socialist mess). There are recordings and documents showing that. Read it before writing anything more.

Err..that's strange logic.


Yes, because you know best, don't you? I mean, screw the research - the Dear Leader guides you!


The war wasn't lost at all in 1979 - in fact, during the 79-80 period, they were winning. And well.


The losses weren't massive in 79-80. In fact, the Soviets were destroying them - much of the CIA equipping came much later on, too.


If they were afraid in 80, how can you explain Soyuz 80 moves? What you're claiming has absolutely no historical basis whatsoever.


They weren't weakened. The Soviet Union could still easily have dealt with the problem - but - as always, they were worried about economic sanctions. It was made clear to them that intervening in Poland would have consequences - and furthermore, the archives in Moscow are closed.


The money that the CIA contributed was peanuts. It might have helped with the purchase of printing presses and so on, but on the whole - nothing major.


They still had more than enough cash to deal with Poland if the political will was there.


Err, they had plenty of interest. But in 1980, Kania managed to convince Moscow that he could deal with it - and when he couldn't deal with it, Jaruzelski got the nod. They wanted a Polish solution to a Polish problem - not least because it would appear to be legitimate. They knew that Czechoslovakia and Hungary were public relations disasters - and the Soviet Union emerged more or less blameless for the solution.


That's the sentimental reason. The truth, as always, is more complicated.

If you actually looked at it from an analytical point of view, you'd soon realise that there were two choices - do nothing, and have the Soviets eventually intervene (in line with previous Warsaw Pact actions), or do something. Don't forget that doing nothing was causing the state to collapse - and was risking civil war.


I'd love to know where the historical evidence is for this assertion. Is it what you read in Gazeta Polska?


Really? Please, do link us to these recordings and documents.

There is certainly enough evidence to suggest that Honecker and Husak were ready to give a beating to Poland. But for what you claim - where is it?

Władimir Bukowski "Moskiewski proces. Dysydent w archiwach Kremla",

I guess that's way they lowered the taxes and kept the budget deficit low at the same time, while "pro-business" PO is increasing taxes again and again and doubled the debt over a few years...

PO being "pro-business" is what only real imbeciles still believe in.

Typical socialism - reduce taxes without having any real way to pay for it. Always comes back to haunt you in the end.


Typical PiS talk. All slogans (sorry, newspeak) and very little substance.

At least now we know what your definition of socialism is :)))


Then please show me any serious economist or business NGO, which says that current government's economic policy is good. Thank you in advance.

Socialism is very much about favourable short term policies and damming the long term. Gierek was an expert at that, if you care to recall.


Err...you'll find many, many people praising the current government.

But you won't read it, because you know, it's PO propoganda.

True. Now Tusk is the expert.


For example :))) ?

Is it? Is that made up "definition" is a prove of your "academical" mind? Gerek ? What he has to do with anything ?He was an official in the Soviet owned colony.

Yawn. Poland wasn't a colony, or have you forgotten the 2 million people who depended directly on the Party?

Gierek had plenty of choice when it came to accepting Western loans - he didn't have to take billions of them to waste on huge stupid projects.

As if all was used in Poland? Do you think that he could loan anything without Kremlin's permission?


traitors thats what they were/
Poland wasn't colony ?I suspect that you will claim that Canada or Raj weren't colonies either.

Ironically most of them do.

I must that your definition of honor baffles me.
Would Himmler be a man of honor according to your definition ?

To whom was Himmler a traitor, except perhaps to humanity?

I have mentioned Himmler in order to understand your definition of honor. Would he be a man of honor according to your definition ?

You claimed that Kiszczak is a man of honor. Well , he is not, foremost because of being a traitor.
Would you kindly elaborate ?

Not only newspeak. Also deeds.
E.g, a few years ago PiS restored the education system which had existed in communist times and which was abolished in late 1990s.