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How Poland bought German Airline Condor and might lose massive from it


Weimarer 10 | 620
6 Feb 2020 #1
Its funny, Condor is a very old german airline and it went into problems because Thomas Cook went bancrupt. The german state gave a 500 million € loan to save Condor.

The german national carrier Lufthansa had interest in buying Condor but that would create a monopoly so this attempt was denied.

Last week a suprise thing happend. Polish auirline LOT bought Condor with a huge loan from the polish government.

edfj

But while Poland appeared super proud to have bought Condor, this might collapse badly.

Lufthansa doesnt take this easily and already announced it will kick both, LOT and Condor out of its Miles and More program

But the more devastating step for Condor is, that Lufthansa plans to kick it out of its shuttle program. Condor depends on Lufthansa to transfer their passengers to central hubs.

Currently, the relationship consists of a contract that feeds Lufthansa traffic to long-distance Condor routes in Frankfurt as well as the Condor's participation in the Lufthansa frequent flyer program Miles & More.

Lufthansa has been bringing passengers on Condor's behalf to Frankfurt for years now. This allows them to more easily switch to the long-haul aircraft of the leisure carrier. Without these feeder services, Condor will need to find another way to fill up its aircraft.

simpleflying.com/condor-lufthansa-cut-ties/

I have flow Condor twice. In 2018 to Cuba and 2019 to Mauritius, when it was still german owned and had a good reputation.

As a German, i want fly German and not polish. So i wont use Condor anymore until this is not solved. I think Lufthansa should buy Condor and things should continue how it was but we will see how this develops.

This year we fly Iceland and use Lufthansa and avoid Condor.

So far Condor already has a significant drop in bookings and makes adds, saying its still same Condor as before, but many here dont accept that.
pawian 170 | 11,355
6 Feb 2020 #2
Experts are in two minds about the purchase. Some claim it will be a failure. Others suppose it might come off if handled cleverly.

But the more devastating step for Condor is, that Lufthansa plans to kick it out of its shuttle program.

They won`t do it coz it will entail reciprocal hostile moves against Lufthansa in Poland. Do you think they will risk it? PIS government surely won`t watch it without taking action. :):)
OP Weimarer 10 | 620
6 Feb 2020 #3
@pawian
Poland is a tiny market for a german giant like Lufthansa.

Take note that Poland is a small country business wise.

We talk about Poland here, not a country with influence over Germany. So what Poland does or not is irrelevant.

Lufthansa had a contract with Condor. Not LOT and that shuttle service will end.

As news say today, Lufthansa does not just kick out Condor but entire LOT

reisetopia.de/news/lufthansa-plant-verbannung/

Thats basicly the kill switch for Condor and LOT on the German market.

They already make adds here to avoid Condor, because nobody knows the airline will survive next year. Dont spend money on tickets that you might lose

when they go down.
cms neuf - | 1,590
6 Feb 2020 #4
I am quite concerned about where this will end - for Polish regional towns then Frankfurt and Munich are the best air connections to the wider world and a fight between Lufthansa and LOT will make things more difficult. Poland might be a small market for Lufthansa but it is a growing one and they have a clear advantage there compared to the other big international groups.

I hadn't heard that LOT would be kicked out of Miles and More :( are you sure that is true ?
Spike31 3 | 1,638
6 Feb 2020 #5
But while Poland appeared super proud to have bought Condor, this might collapse badly.

That's great that you worry so much about LOT's profits. And yet I begin to think that it's more like a German ego was hurt in the process of acquisition of Condor and you want this deal to fail so badly.

Also do you know that valuation of a German champion Deutche Bank is lower than that of PKO BP? And PKO wants to expand to Germany...

thefirstnews.com/article/pko-overtakes-banking-giant-deutsche-in-historic-stock-market-valuation-6257

ft.com/content/41bc28a2-81ed-11e4-a9bb-00144feabdc0
OP Weimarer 10 | 620
6 Feb 2020 #6
@cms neuf
Süddeutsche Zeitung says Lufthansa wants kick out LOT out of miles and more and also sue LOT in EU court.

So i assume Lufthansa is serious regarding that.
Torq 32 | 2,999
6 Feb 2020 #7
Weimarer is right - Germany is growing ever stronger. Look how many mosques they already have...

Mosques in Germany

... and new ones are being built as we speak!

Maybe they sold the airline because they needed money for more mosques? Who knows?
OP Weimarer 10 | 620
6 Feb 2020 #8
@Torq
Poles must be very weak if mosque scares you.

Im from Thüringen, we have no mosques but one thing is important to say.

Poland is an economic dwarf compared to Germany. Its also kinda backwarded eastern european country with low standards.

Would i as a German want fly in a polish aircraft? Propably not. I dont think their standards or in german level.

Its up to german people to decide if they want fly polish and majority doesnt want fly polish.

I go with my girl to iceland in september.

If i fly Lufthansa, i get german standard and my money stays in Germany. If i book condor i now get bad standard and my money goes Poland.

Sorry but definitly no.
Torq 32 | 2,999
6 Feb 2020 #9
Poles must be very weak if mosque scares you.

It doesn't scare us at all. It delights us to see how tolerant our dear western neighbours have become. Well done! :)

Poland is an economic dwarf compared to Germany.

Well, most countries are economic dwarves compared to Germany (which is a good thing, I suppose, because you can share your wealth with all the Arab and African refugees - another thing I admire about you, your generosity :) ).
Lenka 3 | 1,969
6 Feb 2020 #10
It seems Lufthansa behaves like a big baby. Why punish LOT if they were denied due to monopoly? It wasn't LOT forbidding them.
And while as a client you can of course choose the airline of your choice it's not an argument in the bigger picture
Ziemowit 13 | 4,080
6 Feb 2020 #11
Germany is growing ever stronger. Look how many mosques they already have...

Strangely enough, the distribution of mosques within Germany re-draws the old border between the former Bonn Republic and the DDR.

My opinion is that the purchase of Condor by LOT was a rather risky move - not becauase of the aversion of Lufthansa for this, but because of business reasons. All major foreign investments by big Polish companies have largely failed so far.

If i book condor i now get bad standard and my money goes Poland.

The standard of service in Condor is not be determined simply by the fact that the airline is now a Polish-owned one. The managing team and staff will remain German as the airline continues to be a separate entity. As for the money, most customers - German ones included - are chiefly price-orientated people even if you are an exception.
Torq 32 | 2,999
6 Feb 2020 #12
Strangely enough, the distribution of mosques within Germany re-draws the old border between the former Bonn Republic and the DDR.

It's not that strange - they are attracted to richer lands, and western parts of Germany are definitely more wealthy than the east.

Im from Thüringen

Just googled your Land - seems like a nice place (nice Landesflagge too :D).
Ziemowit 13 | 4,080
6 Feb 2020 #13
No, in fact majority of mosques had been set up in the western part before the unification. East Germany - despite all the money pumped into it by the Bonn Republic - is mentally still part of Eastern Europe.
Torq 32 | 2,999
6 Feb 2020 #14
Maybe there's still hope for them then.
OP Weimarer 10 | 620
6 Feb 2020 #15
@Torq
Nothing to do with wealth. Eastern Germans dont like non germans. We make no difference between muslims, slavs or africans. This is Germany. Tourists can come, rest can **** off. The arabs get hunted through streets here.

That said, all of Germany has less muslims than we once had jews. Considering how well AfD does, i dont see this as problem.

As for Condor, Lufthansa doesnr act like a baby. They act reasonable.

And Condor was never cheap. People did chose it, because it had good german standards.

I doubt LOT understands the german market, so this will not end well.
Torq 32 | 2,999
6 Feb 2020 #16
We make no difference between muslims, slavs or africans.

Hm... that's probably a question of lack of education - let me help you to tell the difference then...

a) "muslim" is a religion
b) "Slav" is ethnicity
c) "African" is just a geographical term for person from continent called Africa

... hope that helped.

The arabs get hunted through streets here.

How many have you, personally, hunted down?

That said, all of Germany has less muslims than we once had jews.

Are you thinking about similar solution for Muslims as the one you came up with for Jews?
Ziemowit 13 | 4,080
6 Feb 2020 #17
hope for them

Immigration, mixing and interbreeding has been so widespread in the history of mankind that it is impossible to avoid it in the future. This knowledge came with the so-called genome revolution which started only in 2012, so it is obvious that it hasn't reached the so called man-in-the street yet. Read the book "Who We Are and Where We Came From" by David Reich and you will be more than amazed to see what was happening about human migrations in the past.

I doubt LOT understands the german market, so this will not end well.

I told you the managment of the Condor airline will remain German, but you don't want to listen.
Torq 32 | 2,999
6 Feb 2020 #18
Immigration, mixing and interbreeding has been so widespread in the history of mankind that it is impossible to avoid it in the future

Quite right. However, some religions/cultures, like muslims, are not really much into all this mixing-interbreeding-kumbaya-singing business. They remain staunchly separate, hostile to others, and almost impossible to assimilate. So, on the level of modern European societies, in macro-scale, the problem is not about genes or history of interbreeding, but of the clash of completely incompatible civilisations/cultures. We live in interesting times, that's for sure.
OP Weimarer 10 | 620
6 Feb 2020 #19
@Torq
I make it easy for you. Abc are non germans.

How many i have hunted doesnt matter, at least in a public forum.

Im far right. Im in the Junge Alternative, which is youth organisation of AfD.

As for solutions, i believe in pull and push factors. Its important to have strong push factors against migrants. Hostile environment ect.

And it works. Most of the scum Merkel let in in 2015 did run away from eastern german states.

As for poles, i have no problem with them as tourists or guests. As long they behave, show respect and leave.
OP Weimarer 10 | 620
26 Feb 2020 #20
Merged:

As i predicted, Lufthansa shots Condor down, now that it was bought by polish LOT



Some here said Lufthansa would not do so, i said they would. :D

LOT paid almost 1 billion € to buy german airline Condor, which was in trouble after teh Thomas Cook bancrupcy.

For decades Lufthansa and Condor were close partners. Condor catered only holiday destinations and has 3 big hubs. Frankfurt, Düsseldorf and Munich. Lufthansa cooperated with Condor and offered cheap tickets to bring passengers from all over Germany to the Condor hubs. Condor on the other side did not fly to Lufthansa destinations.

Experts say Condor depends heavily on those Lufthansa flights which fill their aircrafts.

Lufthans wanted to buy Condor but polish LOT got it.

Experts from beginning said, that Lufthansa will not allow this. While the poles celebrated that they got a old renomated german airline, Lufthansa stayed silent but today announced they will end the contracts with Condor. baysicly making its business in Germany collapsing.

aerotelegraph.com/lufthansa-stoppt-zusammenarbeit-mit-condor

Lufthansa also plans to throw Condor out of its Miles and More Program and also break the old rule that Lufthansa avoids Condor destinations.

The german national carrier changes the market in Germany so much, that its doubtful, that LOT will have sucess with Condor here. LOT itself has no partners in Germany and cant provide the aircraft net that bring german passengers to the 3 hubs for Condor.
cms neuf - | 1,590
26 Feb 2020 #21
Why didn't LOT and Lufthansa make a joint venture to take over Condor ?
OP Weimarer 10 | 620
27 Mar 2020 #22
Merged:

Polands LOT gets shredded with Condor deal



Few weeks ago polish LOT airlines proudly signed a deal to buy german airline Condor, which was under german state property. Poland pays over 650 million for this trade...

But now the Corona crisis strieks hard. LOT appears that it wants cancel the deal. But they signed the contract already. The contract says that in case of breaking it, LOT is forced to pay 75% of the price.

Will be interesting how this ends. Condor can see this quite relaxed, if LOT doesnt take them, they stay in state property and most likely fall to Lufthansa. But LOT is heavily damaged either way. If LOT pays the full price they get a airline that cant fly right now and since Lufthansa cancelled all support, its doubtful Condor will make any profits. If they cancel the deal, they have to pay most of the money anyways but end with nothing.

Not even the aircrafts have any high value. Condor has very old aircrafts and additional to the price LOT has to pay for Condor, they would need a complete fleet renewel.

When LOT signed the deal, they were visible proud that they just bought a german airline...but it appears like they miscalculated greatly.

ee

Gargantuan, ever growing costs and no prospect of any profits.

I heared LOT was supported alot by polish government for this purchase out of prestige reasons and paid by polish tax money...
Spike31 3 | 1,638
14 Apr 2020 #23
@Weimarer, you're making a fool of yourself.

When LOT wanted to acquite Condor you said that it is going to be a bad deal for LOT. And now when LOT has resigned from acquisition you critize them for that decision too.

So which is it: either LOT made a good decision before with plans for acquisition of Condor or made a great decission now with cancelling the transaction?

Or maybe meanwhile your narrative has changed since then and Condor, that "loss generating company with obslete fleet", is a golden asset which will remain in German hands?
peterweg 37 | 2,321
14 Apr 2020 #24
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure

Totally unexpected circumstances mean LOT can walk away from the deal
Joker 1 | 1,588
14 Apr 2020 #25
Weimarer is right - Germany is growing ever stronger. Look how many mosques they already have...

Thats an insane number of mosques!

Is it fair too say the German culture is going to be a thing of the past in about 20 years?

Merkel has destroyed Germany and there are still idiots that support her...lol

Thank goodness that Poland didn't let this scourge into their country, there is still time for PolExit:)

LOT is the best way to travel to Poland from the USA.. Better food and better looking flight attendants:)
Tacitus 2 | 1,136
14 Apr 2020 #26
Is it fair too say the German culture is going to be a thing of the past in about 20 years?

Dont worry about us, we are just fine. The fact that German muslims are becoming a more integral part of our society and thus receiving more acceptance is a good sign.

Merkel has destroyed Germany and there are still idiots that support her

Moat of the German muslims have long entered Germany (or have been born here) long before Merkel became chaancellor. As for idiots. Trumps mismanagement of the Cotons virus might end up killing tens of thousands of Americans, yet people are still supöorting him.
peterweg 37 | 2,321
14 Apr 2020 #27
And LOT no longer exists, its bankrupt. You cannot get money from a dead man.
Joker 1 | 1,588
14 Apr 2020 #28
As for idiots.

Thats nothing but a libtard Dem talking point because they dont have a snowflakes chance in hell of beating him in NOV. You want to talk facts? Trump cancelled all flights from China that saved many lives. What did the crying libtards do?? They called it xenophobic as usual, until the fact came out, then went silent. The next day their puppets CNN continue to make up more fiction, just like you!

The Virus is 100% Chinas fault and leftards want to see more ppl die, so they can blame it on Trump.

And LOT no longer exists, its bankrupt.

I hope not. Ive had a good experience with LOT.
Spike31 3 | 1,638
14 Apr 2020 #29
And LOT no longer exists, its bankrupt. You cannot get money from a dead man.

LOT is one of the oldest airlines in the world. It has survived WWII, it survived communist era mismanagement and it will most certainly survive Chinese flu hysteria
peterweg 37 | 2,321
14 Apr 2020 #30
I hope not. Ive had a good experience with LOT.

Closes, re-opens with all the assets, no debts. New LOT


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