Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 26

Hey, Bobko and Velund, I am so proud of Russia for standing with Venezuela...

If the US can deploy some nasty shlt at Russia's doorstep, Russia can do the same to the US.

My best advice: Form a mutual defense alliance consisting of Mexico, Nicaragua, Panama, Colombia, and Venezuela - just to shut PF Russia haters up.

Yes , I know...

Russia's rockets near the US - pure evil and a provocation

US rockets near Russia - to protect freedom and democracy

This is so fvcking funny...I will have a beer...

russian warbloggers are furious that Serbia wants to sell ammo to the EU because it might be transferred to Ukraine for use against russian invaders....

x.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1985991866936901633

If Crow were here he'd be appalled!

My feeling is more that Venezuela will collapse like a house of cards - if the Americans just kick the door in.

I say this based on the corruption, poverty, and massive brain drain that Venezuela has experienced to-date.

It's hard for me to imagine that the people will fight for Maduro, if America manages to signal its intentions in clear and fair terms.

If America is just going in to change the government, and then leave immediately after - it could be a big success.

-//-

If America comes to stay... I think it will be just as bad as Afghanistan and Iraq, or maybe even as bad as Vietnam.

Reports in the press, however, indicate that Trump may actually indeed be planning to "stay", because he is mesmerized by Venezuela's oil reserves (the largest in the world), and rare earths.

Not rather greeted as liberators? People are suffering and fleeing the regime....

Cuba would be another such case....or Nicaragua....all these left radicals have destroyed their countries thoroughly, I doubt there is anybody left wanting to defend them.

Especially as the muslim religious nutters (Afghanistan etc.) aren't existent in the US' "backyard"....neither is Stalinism (Vietnam)....nor support from the former Soviet bloc....

@Bratwurst Boy

You bring up some good points.

But there are counterarguments also...

1) Venezuela has very difficult topology, and huge rainforest cover. In Colombia, FARC managed to lead a guerrilla war against the Central Government (supported by the USG) for nearly thirty years by basing themselves in the jungle.

2) Venezuela has an enormous coast line, and long borders with neighboring countries. Supplying Venezuela with weapons and ammunition is much easier than doing so for Iraq or Afghanistan. Some of the world's most important narco-traffic routes pass through Venezuela, which should you give you a sense of smuggling potential.

3) Chavez and Maduro have raised two whole generations of Venezuelans who know nothing except Chavista rule. He may be a bus driver, he may be uneducated, he may be a crook... but he's not stupid. Even if the overwhelming majority of Venezuelans are cynically opposed to the government, they still have several millions of regime loyalists that they can rely on.

4) The amount of money and resources available to a Venezuelan government in hiding would be significantly larger than what the Taliban or Saddam loyalists and Islamists could rely on. They could feed themselves on narcotraffic, on oil smuggling, on people smuggling, on precious stone smuggling, and so on.

5) Russia and China were too weak to get involved in Afghanistan and Iraq. But in the past twenty years much has changed...

In addition to the above, you have to bear in mind that:

1) Cuba supplies Venezuela with Cuban intelligence officers who monitor the population for seditious behavior. The Cubans are supposed to be some of the best in the world at this job.

2) Russia and China both control important oil production operations in the country.

3) Iran and North Korea have little to lose, and much to gain - by developing leverage over the United States through supporting Venezuelan resistance. America will begin offering them candies to stop their help.

4) Mexico, Columbia, and Brazil all have socialist leaders in power at this moment. The Colombian president has called Trump a murderer. The Brazilian president has claimed that Trump "acts as a small time crook".

I don't think these three leftist presidents will watch passively as America invades their neighborhood, and begins to play policeman.

That "raising" is overestimated alot IMHO. If all these radical teachings from Kindergarten onwards would be that effective the communist bloc would still be existent and flourishing and full of happy followers!

But it isn't, especially not if the life outside the class rooms and state propaganda is so dire, poor and dangerous for everybody to see! Ask the ex-GDR'ians! :)

.....still...its not only the coastlines...military interventions in far away places are usually not a good idea, even with the best intentions! So, we can most probably throw that idea into the bin.

But drugs are a huge problem...and kicking these south american drug lords mightily in the nuts could be done with different means, no full scale wars needed.

For the past 100+ years - we could not simply decide to kill people suspected of drug smuggling.

I mean... it happens in Afghanistan... in the Philippines... but not in the so called "developed" countries it does not.

What's more - we do not violate someone's sovereignty and declare war on them, to kill criminal elements within their country.


Of course not.

When I was a young kid, witnessing Afghanistan and Iraq, I would ask God: "Will the Americans be one day punished for this? Will they regret it?"

For the longest time it seemed like God would not punish America. That every crime... it could just wash away.

But now, twenty years later, you will not find a single American who thinks that those events were a good idea. It poisoned their country, and their politics. They are to this day dealing with the toxicity of what they had done, and how it affected not just the world but themselves.

As much sin as they committed over there, did they absorb back home - which blackened the soul of the country.

They let the demon out of the box, and achieved nothing.

Na ja....they learned! It won't happen again (most probably)...

You must'n forget that was another time....deciders were born as foreign wars were fought for a good cause (the world wars) and more importantly, successfull...ending with an enormous addition on influence and economical possibilities.

Now the times have changed again...judgements have changed....whereas foreign wars become a NoGo...the ways how to handle drug lords and their minions might change too!

We should execute drug sellers or give them away for free for the users to overdose and die.
Right now, the system benefits only law enforcement.

Did they?

Trump had me convinced he was an anti-war president... until recently.

Now I think, he simply doesn't believe in "far away" wars, but very much has an appetite for "neighborhood" wars.

He is using the army (secretly) in Mexico, to great consternation from the Mexicans. He is using the military in the Caribbean. He is making noises about Greenland and Panama. He is parking aircraft carriers at Venezuela's door step...

I don't think America has learned anything.

If it does these things, that it contemplates, it will weaken this country - hugely so.

No matter what I may have written here, I love America. I don't want it to do such things to itself.

Trump also promised to DO something....against the illegal immigration....against the drug trade....to bring order into chaos, or at least trying!

Something no recent US gov so far as tackled....cut the man some slack, Bobko.....or am I on a totally wrong boat, watching from far away Berlin? ;)

You are watching as a German spectator.

I'm living here, and seeing the effects of it.

America ONLY seems invincible. A wrong step here, a wrong war there, and you will see the incredibly fragility of this project.

America belongs to the world. The whole planet needs it to do a certain thing, and to do it well....

When America gets knocked off course, and starts doing strange things... bad things happen everywhere else. Like invasions of Ukraine...

So true! All of it...

...on the other hand, doing nothing and just giving up to the often bad influence from the South, is so not Trumps style....

So then if it invades Venezuela and doesn't leave immediately... but instead decides to stay - I think this will turn into a big and cancerous tumor.

Already nobody respects America - but this would be the final nail in the coffin.

Everyone will accelerate their plans on how to disconnect from such maniacs, and maybe apply a little effort towards making America's occupation of Venezuela as painful as humanly possible.

I could rather see an accident of Maduro...or maybe some kind of blockade...but not really an invasion!

Trumps services should have a long and complete list of the important heads to take out...

Thats from two days ago:


bbc.com/news/articles/c709rwxzx9yo

America meticulously planned the invasion of Iraq for a period of 18 months. Then they went on a world tour, convincing everyone that they were not bloodthirsty dogs.

Still... it ended in a 15 year occupation, hundreds of thousands of dead civilians, and triggered the rise of the Islamic State - which now controls various geographies from Afghanistan, to Syria, to Mali.

I don't trust American "services" to plan anything well, just as I don't trust Russian "services" to plan anything well.

We can bulldoze people, and crush them, and exterminate them (both Russia and America), but we are not very good at making them our friends.

Friends with blood dropping dictators and murdering drug lords? I hope you never...

But I really think your fear of full scale invasions and long term occupations is not well founded! Your examples have also alot to do with the so called "nation building" and crap back then...but as I said, that was another time back then, and govs believed to get brownie points for such interventions....globally and at home!

To plan and start such huge things you need to care about such stuff mightily, but Trump gives only a ***! He only wants these men to stop "hurting" the US!

This is not a computer game.

You whack one "mole" on the head, because he is "hurting you" - and suddenly a dozen new "moles" arise - hungrier, angrier, and with sharper teeth than some kleptocratic regime awash in its own dysfunction.

Every bomb, every targeted killing - breeds 3-5 new killers. Before... they wanted a student visa, and just a job. Now they want to kill you, and drink your blood - and watch your family suffer in pain.

In one job I had, I had to interview such people on a daily basis - 10-20 a day. I know what I'm talking about. People in St Louis and Indianapolis may have no sense of what is happening there, but it's happening.

It's a loop of hell, with no escape.

Och menno....don't give up! Here, have one of those for the evening....

@Bratwurst Boy

Everyone should mind their own business.

The problems of the people of Venezuela, are not the problems of the people of the United States.

I know I may look like a huge hypocrite now, but - as I've said one thousand times - Ukraine is not our Iraq or Afghanistan.

Ukraine is our heart, which was ripped from our rib cage - causing enormous torture and pain.

It is same as Kosovo to Serbia.

Ukraine is the beating heart of Rus', and it cannot be allowed to be transferred to the Western manipulators.

Amen. Period.

Our country was born in the territory that is now Ukraine (to some large extent).

The West has targeted our heart - our brain.

Even if Russia wins and takes some of Ukraine's territories today, it should expect NATO to put pressure on it for years or decades to come. That means Russia will have to build itself even more into a military state, trying to protect its territories and wasting a lot of resources on that. With severe sanctions applied, history may repeat itself and Russia will collapse just like in the 1990s. So today Russia may win, but in the long term it may be economically annihilated. In that case, losing back the land it took today from Ukraine will be the smallest punishment.

Expect Russia to be divided into more independent countries this century. For example: North Caucasus, Ural, Siberia, or Kalinigrad (it could go back to Poland after sending Russia some emergency foods).

You and one thousand years of various pessimists have predicted the collapse of Russia into various independent polities.

Unlike yourself - the people in the past had good reason to do so. The Russians seemed "finished" by the Mongols. Then Napoleon. Finally Hitler, who made it nearly a certainty.

Nonetheless, we defeated every "would be conqueror", and turned them into our dogs instead.

-//--

Bottom line - you should try.

Try dividing us and slicing us up.

Don't be upset if you are the one who ends up being sliced up on the operating table. Don't say we did not warn you.

BFD..... it's not russia now. Try to act like sane adults for once in your miserable, poverty and violence infested history....

Is that soooooo hard? Individually there are many very smart russians, but collectively you insist on acting like retarded four year olds raised by badgers, very tiresome for adults.

Keep talking to us like this. Using this language.

You have no honor, and do not live by your promises.

As almighty God is our witness - we will show the world who you are.

Your enemy is within. It won't be the West dividing your country, but your own people will revolt when they realize their children - and the next few generations - will have to become soldiers just to protect Moscow's upper class in their meaningless fights. It can escalate quickly as proven by the Polish people during the Solidarity movement.

Let's not forget that it was the US that imposed sanctions on Venezuela - an act of war but other means.

As a reward, we got V refugees...

American stupidy seems to have no limits, unless creating a problem and solving it is deliberate to keep the machine humming...

When out of enemies, create one...

How many bases do we have all over the world? China has ... zero...and winning every race...Before this century is over, China will own the US.

Quoting:

The U.S. has approximately 750 foreign military bases in about 80 countries. This number can vary depending on the source, with some estimates going as high as 877, and includes large bases and smaller facilities. The bases are located on every continent except Antarctica ...

...and the Sun.

For the first time you said something truthful.

Nobody can destroy Russia, except Russians.

But even when we fight each other, the whole world feels it - from Vietnam to Angola.

This is because of the power of Russian Truth, which can be globally scaled without difficulties. Every Cuban, every Vietnamese - understands the power of Russian Truth when presented with it.

It is the power to fight beyond odds.