Poland's aid to Ukraine if Russia invades - part 23

Russia might attack Poland under the right circumstances.
Instead of guessing when and how, Poland should be ready to defend itself. That is the point.
Tusk and some others use that possibility to gain support for themselves, while they are the biggest obstacle in Poland getting ready for war.

As a self-criticism, you hit the nail on the head.

Now you're playing off your poor English comprehension, you German twat.

Exactly.


Your personal digs are tiresome, Alien. Say with which part of Ironside's post you disagree or shut the f*ck up.

There is a Polish proverb: "Hit the table and the scissors will speak up." It just worked, but I didn't expect the scissors to be double. And I just wanted to innocently show the iron man his place. 🤭

In other words, you were being a supercilious, patronizing ars*hole.

I sometimes commit the same sin too but you do it a bit too often recently. You are not an Ubermensch and you are not a wiseman - you are a prostitute who sold himself for German money, just like Novi sold himself for American dollars. Know your place.

Instead of it, you showed that you are an intellectual nobody and a moral zero. God has bestowed a soul upon you. You choose to live like an animal, wasting God's gift.

@Torq
@Ironside
Chciałem odpowiedzieć jednej mądrej głowie składającej się z dwóch półgłówków ale zrezygnowałem. Żona postawiła na stół obiad, cielęcinka, ziemniaczki i buraczki zasmażane i do tego Faustino lub Budvar. Obiad oczywiście wygrał. Sorry jungs.

No i zbierasz sobie, panie folksdojcz.

Masz szczęście, że jest niedziela, właśnie wróciłem ze Mszy Świętej, więc przez wzgląd na miłosierdzie chrześcijańskie tym razem ci odpuszczę.

But....to keep up the fear of war they also need to be seen as leader who would go to war, if they want to.

Rationalizing as you do would disturb their plans, destroy their power....imagine a world who doesn't believe Putin would do the worst, they would stop fearing him!

...and so did everybody in my class of 1966...happily, with a big smile...

They all ran to America as fast as they could...Only the idiots and those without connections stayed to "build socialism" for the next 25 years...

My first 1967 salary of $97,000 in today's money wiped all the tears and the sadness of separation from the gulag known as PRL.

That will teach you to never mention my name in vain...

Rich... This may be a brilliant explanation of what is happening now. Almost as good as the evidence of a syphilis epidemic (with incidence rates up to 80%) in the historical records of the early 20th century from Western Ukraine... ;)

Circumstances so fantastic - that they would never arise.

That kind of an attack would "collapse" our remaining international relationships.

Whereas China, India and maybe 50% of Americans - are willing to entertain the legitimacy of Russia's claims on Ukraine - nobody would feel the same way about Poland.

1) No ethnic Russian population to liberate.

2) No disputed territories (in fact, the most credible claim on territory in this relationship belongs to Poland).

3) No ambiguity in alliances

We do something like that, and we'll lose a lot of peoples' sympathies.


Poland was NEVER a part of the USSR.

Even in pre-Revolutionary times, Poland did not formally constitute an integral part of the Russia Empire. It was a separate possession of the Russian Tsar, with its own:

1) Constitution
2) Parliament
3) Administration
4) Laws

Until the November Uprising, Poland even had its own distinct army.

-//-

You cannot compare Ukraine, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan, etc to Poland.

Those countries were as Russian as Puerto Rico or Hawaii are American.

Look, wh*re, I have no idea how much your clients paid you and I don't give a toss, but how much in today's money do you reckon you would have to pay in student loans to get the education that Poland gave you for free, you prostitute?


I will mention your name whenever I need to give an example of whoredom.


That's what I keep telling people - Russia has no territorial claims on us, unlike certain other countries (of course, they don't make those claims officially... yet).


... but then again, Putin doesn't strike me as somebody who cares about people's sympathies.

Don't underestimate the role of China and India in giving us some much needed oxygen supply.

I make jokes here about China's attempts to sit on two chairs at once... but they did really save us.

We were selling the Europeans something like $200B of energy exports a year. That's a lotta money to lose suddenly. I'm not sure if we could have continued the fight, if Chinese and Indian refineries refused to take our crude, and Chinese and Indian power plants refused to import our coal.

If we strike Poland - that is clearly "beyond the pale". That means we expect China and India to jeopardize their relationship with the EU and NATO - for the sake of a greater Russia. Will that happen? Something tells me the answer is "NO".

-//--

What's more... a Russia that controls Ukraine... PLUS Poland - will stop listening to anything China asks of it. Russia will be mainlining some strong "Imperial" methamphetamine at that point. It will Hulk out, and act as it normally behaves when it feels that only God alone can judge it.

The above is probably not in the interests of China, who would instead prefer a docile and predictable Russia.

Hmm... nice British English there, Major, but you are supposed to be in America--don't blow your cover. ;)


No, unless China and India want to flip the script and tear up the rulebook which, I am increasingly beginning to believe, they might want to do.


Now, this is a good argument and makes me feel a bit more secure about Russia not attacking Poland in the near future. But then again, that's something that you would like me to feel, wouldn't you? Hmm... 5D chess and all that. I suppose I'll stick to my 100% Polish paranoia. Safer that way.

If the two of you met in person, I think it would go like this:

You'd both start with glaring stares of snarled and disgusted countenances.

Novi would start:

N- Fvcking Polish maggot.
T- wh0re of a wh0re.
N-A$$-licking pig.
T- Treasonous bastard ape.
N-Fvck off!
T-Cvnt
N-Hogwart
T-What?
N-is a woman.

{Pregant silent pause}

The snarls slip into broad grins. Both hug and nearly kiss like Brezhnev and Gierek, but refrain.

Then both commence to merrily sharing table, choking down pierogi and barszcz and clink vodka glasses.

Torqi gifts Novi a beautiful rosary made from the finest bursztyn and gold. Novi hands Torqi a title to a '57 Chevy. Best friends forever.

😃

It's commonly and widely used in the US too. I don't think of it as especially British. That's probably the least objectionable thing he wrote and you pick on him for it...

@Torq

The Chinese desire to involve Russia in their war against Taiwan and America is understandable.

The Chinese word for Russia is 战斗民族 (zhàndòu mínzú). It means "fighting people", or "battle-hardened folk".

It means they see and recognize a certain difference between us. Their pathetic attempts to plant, cultivate, and harvest rice - while building multi-generational prosperity - is hilarious to us wild barbarians.

"We will take what we need, and you will learn to love us - otherwise you will be killed". That's the Russian way, and it is 180 degrees opposed to the Chinese way.

But they understand that their 2,500 years of agricultural cultivation and bureaucracy building has made them weak in comparison to us.

So they want to use Russian meat to deliver them their victories.

This is a mistake, because if Russia cuts off a piece of its own flesh, it will take ten pounds of yours in return.

Hey, if only Novi didn't insist on spitting on Poland, Polish language, Polish romantic heritage etc., and didn't pretend to be an American whilst rejecting his own blood and culture, I would happily address him as Right Honourable Ryszard M., and consider him a venerable and respectable member of American Polonia.

Alas, his words and actions on this board prompt me to use different vocabulary and call him a wh*re.

Harsh? Possibly. But that's life.


Are you kidding me? The Pale of Settlement or the English Pale in Ireland - I only ever read it in British context, but you're a native speaker, so I won't argue.


Are you warriors or Jewish merchants? Make up your mind. ;)

I would contribute that to the war between Poland and the Bolsheviks in 1920's alone. I somehow have strong doubts that there were no plans for a Polish SRR or German SRR until the Bolsheviks had to retreat. Also ALL lands taken by the Soviet Union in 1939 were not seen as Polish by the Soviet Union (pushing Ukrainian and Belarusian view of history)

To think that Poland had no claims, legitimacy and connection to those lands even if mixed is very one sided. There were Poles there and Poles further east that the Soviet Union preferably would have wanted gone forever, moved, re-educated or killed.

Only reason that the Soviet Union was sceptical about having more Soviet Republics was to keep up the image of a liberator and allowing freedom and democracy in those lands to please western demands that counted for nothing as they were still in control via their own agents in those populations. (Similar to British tactics of colonial rule, more indirect then direct)

Novichok is perfect example of somebody swallowing it up whole without questioning it.

Until Russia does something similar as it did in form of Soviet Union in Austria or Norway during ww2. Most Poles would naturally remain sceptical of the Russian state. It's a lot of work to do to improve trust, relations and business opportunities. Probably multiple generations of hard work. While most politicians rather do something easy and short lasting to improve their ratings. It's a very difficult near impossible situation.

Only reason Russia hasn't landed yet on Pluto is cause of technology, not of political will after all.

Russia doesn't bleed for other people, without taking anything in return - unless it is some trivial exercise as the War in Angola, or the Vietnam War.

These wars were more about prestige. A chance to embarrass the Americans as they plotted.

If it's something closer to home - we won't be your donkeys. We won't deliver water for you.

If you want to avail yourself of Russian military power - prepare to see an invoice.

Oh, we know that. Your invoice for liberating us from the Nazis was the size of Czechia (difference between Poland's area in 1939 and 1945).

I'm not complaining though.


Can still happen. He makes a lot of sense about everything apart from Poland (e.g. abortion or immigration).

Nice scenario by the way - very Christian. ;)

They were "our boys" - what do you expect?


I will tell you the truth - from a Russian perspective...

You have claims. Deep historical claims. Claims written in blood and tears.

We do not care.

You Western-leaning government decided to make itself an enemy of our country.

If you played with us, shared your toys, and told us how great we are - maybe you would now have some territories that are part of modern Ukraine and Belarus.

But you decided to be Poles - to be as independent as you always have been - so we "punished" you to the extent we could.

Then... through the war, you began realizing you made a deal with the wrong people, and really started helping us. Polish First Army, etc... For this sudden change of heart you got rewarded with the most industrially productive parts of Germany and the Baltic Coast.

I think we treated you fairly.

I would like to argue with that...

... but there's a grain of truth in what you write. Maybe even two grains.

Russians are fair.

We don't want more than is necessary.

We are fine being poorer than you, and less free.

But you double cross us, you play games with us - it will not end well for you.

Otto von Bismarck quote on topic:

"Do not expect that once you take advantage of Russia's weakness, you will receive dividends forever. Russians always come for their money. And when they come - don't rely on a signed agreement. They won't respect it. They will rely on their own strength. Remember: never humiliate Russia."

Why should they even be asked by Putin?

The BILD report speaks about an upcoming Taiwan-Situation....and Taiwan is not much different to Ukraine or any other territory seen as property by the "Biggies".

When Putin believes some part of the Baltics belong to Russia next as Ukraine does and China is in the process to re-incorporate Taiwan at the same time, nobody will mess with the others plans! It would be hypocritical in the extreme!

No it will not.

If the Chinese do not want to be hypocrites, then they would send us 500-700,000 men right now to wrap up this military operation once and for all.

They are afraid.

They don't want sanctions like Russia experiences.

They do not want to be treated as dangerous and wild animals.

That's ok, and that's fine. We Russians have a long memory.

Unless it's about precious metals for bathroom appliances or the territory. Apart from that, I would tend to agree.


Ah, the double snot. He was not an idiot. A c*nt - certainly - but not an idiot.


They might even coordinate. If the Chinese attack Taiwan, they will very much welcome a distraction war on the eastern flank of NATO, and they have their ways to convince Putin. Better get your panzers ready and we'll dust those old cavalry lances.

*nods*

Rheinmetall works already double shifts....