PiS-PSL-LPR?

Possibly Kaczyński's biggest mistake in 2005 was inducting Lepper's destructive Samoobrona into the coaltion. Had he chosen PSL (and the power-hungry Pawlak would have surely accepted the invite), it might have been a different ballgame. The PSL would not have risked a collapse of the coaliton and surely would have toed the line better than Lepper did. One of Giertych's major achievements was to beef up the hsitory curriculum in schools. Now the Tuskites have emascualted it and are starting to down-dumb kids the way America has for decades. It's got to where many if not most American secondary-school pupils do not know whether the Civil War took place in the 18th or 19th century? Is Poland headed the same way? (Naturally the criterion would be things like the Warsaw Uprising, the rise of Solidarity, martial law, etc., not the US CIvil War!)

Can you make up your mind if you wanna talk about history classes or parties` coalitions?

If history, there is another thread for it.

Pawlak would never have accepted. The PSL vote comes from middle class rural voters - who would not want to go into any coalition with LPR types.

But Polonius, your knowledge of Polish politics is lacking, yet again. To obtain a parliamentary majority in Poland, one must obtain 231 seats out of 460. PiS-LPR-PSL would have a grand total of 214 seats and would have left them 17 short of a majority.

People's opinion on Giertych and his ilk is well reflected by the fact that his partycan't get enough voters to give them a single seat in parliament.

Quite the contrary is true, rural folk are amongg the coutnry's most traditonalist and staunchly Catholic. The fact that PSL teamed up with the ex-commies and now with the liberals shows they will join any coalition just to have a foothold in power. I presume Kaczyński didn't even bother to invite them because of their PRL roots, but they shed those soon enough and invoked their proud anti-Communist past (Witos, Mikołajczyk).

But they aren't PSL voters, they're PiS voters. The PSL power base comes from the urbanised areas in mostly rural environments - and these voters are very much middle class voters who don't want anything to do with LPR types. Look at where the PSL won seats - all in towns surrounded by rural areas.


They're centrist, but that by nature stops them from going near PiS.


Or because it wouldn't have been a viable coalition, particularly as they still would have been 17 seats short of a majority.

Nonsense number 10000000000.

Perhaps you would like to illustrate why Pawlak would ruin his electoral base for the sake of short term power in an unstable coalition with a leader who had already illustrated how he wanted control of all the relevant "power' ministries?

Then again, it's irrelevant - as I already said, such a coalition would be 17 seats short of a majority and would have to rely on Lepper regardless.

It's hard to argue with the arithmetic. But the average Polish farmer is deifnitely right of centre. Too bad the PO-PiS project never materialised due to PO pigheadedness. Although PO came second, Kaczyński generously offered them as many ministries as PiS. but they still hummed nad hawed. Then PO wanted coalition talks broadcast live on TV and they were and naturalłly fell through. Nobody in the world negotiates on camera.

At any rate, in a PO-PiS government Jarek's lads could have kept a close watch on the Tuskites to make sure they toed the line.

But the PSL voters are not small farmers - they are either wealthy farmers or town dwellers. The real rural village peasant vote belongs very much to PiS.


What, you mean refusing to agree to a situation where all three "power" ministries were in the hands of PiS?


Nothing to do with being generous - PiS needed PO far more than PO needed PiS at that time. It was actually always in PO's interest to watch PiS make a mess of things.


Again - savvy public relations. PO had nothing to lose and PiS had everything to lose.


And there you have the exact reason why the coalition couldn't happen. Too much lust for power on behalf of PiS was never going to agree with the liberal conservatives of PO.

Please don't try and distort reality - PiS wanted power to implement their 4th Republic project and PO weren't willing to let them have it. Therefore - no deal.

Yes, the 4th Republic is currently on hold...but it will rise again! You just wait and see!

You're determined to frighten me.
There two groups of ppl:
1-ppl who respect and pay attention to everything that happens even if they don't like it
2-ppl who ignore the reality and pay attention only to the things they think are right.
Polonius you're the second type
I was a student when PiS ruled and belive me-the vaaaaaaaaast majority of young ppl were repulsed by the actions of government.It may be hard for you to acknowledge but either you like it or not young ppl are going to choose.

You've been repeating the same line for years now.

Some people believe young people are fools, gullible, naive, out after only fun and whatever what seems trendy and cutting edge... But young people eventually mature and will see through the Tuskian façade.

I've heard of "taking the long view" in politics, but well - you're going to be waiting a long long time!

Wouldn't it just be better to accept that PiS needs to change and that using insults like "showcase homosexual" guarantees political wilderness?

Sure. First of all, PSL on central level doesn't even have a clear agenda, their main objective is to provide jobs and other benefits to their members and relatives, who by the way, are the main element of their electoral base, they have ~150.000 members (let's be honest, you had no idea about it) and that alone is 1% of people, who actually use to vote, add their realtives and that's nearly enough to get into the Sejm, on votes of members and their relatives. PSL people are holding thousands of jobs in the public sector, cutting them off this drip would be a tragedy for them, that's why PSL is like a prostitute, the "can" with everyone If the price is ok. That's why they were forming the gov with SLD twice and now "do it" with PO, the party they had nothing to do with before 2005.

And do you think that coalition with PiS (thereby putting them firmly into 'those nutters' camp) would be worth it for them?

Pawlak's not an idiot - his party is small and can't afford to do an LPR in power - hence why it's better to enter coalitions with inoffensive parties rather than radical ones. Do you even think they could coexist with PiS, really? Their supporters have little to nothing in common with PiS supporters, after all (unlike the 2005-2007 Government).


The benefits of being a centrist party. The difference between PO and the SLD is hardly that big anyway.

First of all, "those nutters" camp didn't exist in 2005 (they won the eletions, you know...), the nutters image was created later, after a huge black PR campaign done by PO and entities cooperating with them.


Very interesting. Please explain.

They did it to themselves by lurching suddenly away from that centrist image that won them the 2005 election to begin with. Trying to blame the media is rubbish - going into coalition with the thug Lepper and the dodgy Giertych really did PiS no favours at all. Once Kaczynski got rid of Marcinkiewicz, they were all but doomed.

I know quite a few people who supported the pre-election 2005 PiS but who opposed what they became. These people are now all PO voters.


Certainly. There's not much difference between them economically, and both the SLD and PO accept the status quo when it comes to social affairs. They also hold pretty similar views on foreign affairs. Were it not for history, the two would be logical coalition partners.

Well, let's agree to disagree... but you can not denay my point that they had no "nutters" image in 2005, so your agrument that PSL would have not liked to be associated with nutters is simply failing.


Isn't PO, at least on paper, a center-right, free-market oriented, pro-low taxes, anti-bureaucratic burden, Chrisitan values supporting party ? If you mean that in practice, Tusk's PO is not much different than SLD, I totally agree with you.

I would denay it.Maybe this opinion wasn't so popular back in the 2005 but many ppl thought they're nuts.

Merged:

Poland's Law and Justice party (PiS) and their links to the past.

Hello all,
im writing a paper on Polands current government and their occasional historical references to people like Sobieski and Charles Martel.
The paper is about Polands reluctant manner of accepting refugees and their perceived threat to polish identity and safety.
Sadly, most newspapers and articles i find about the subject (the PiS opinion of polish identity and muslim immigration) are of course in Polish. And sicne i dont speak polish its quite difficult to find the material im looking for. So if any of you can help me find any references the PiS made to the past and about polish identity id love to hear it.

Thanks in advance,
Tim

I don't think they do that, at least I don't remember any...

The refugees thing is based on two practical reasons:

1. Muslims and Africans have proven to be rather non-productive and in many ways problematic people.

2. The whole thing is being forced upon member states by Gerries/EU HQ madmen. If we agree to that, what's next ? They will be telling us what kind of dog breeds we can own ? How should we bring up our own children ? Poles, or any other nation, have never agreed to be a part of the federal state called EU, especially not a totalitarian one.