Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany?

I love this fake concern...

Somehow, the fakers never mention what's going on where they live or came from. It's always the Americans who need pity and adult supervision. Like this condescending ***....



...that tariffs lead to higher prices on foreign stuff...What a genius...

Hey, genius, the only purpose of tariffs is to make foreign stuff more expensive and less affordable! Duh!!!!

One of the most stupid comparisons ever, no similarity exists, not even making money, because investing does not guarantee making money, and losing is frequently the outcome. Working is glorious, an endeavor, necessary to retain your dignity, raising the family. Investing is for fearless risk takers, gamblers, free spirits, with
brains, workers included, so I have no idea where Jon's crying coming from, unless he was acting on the investment tips from Golden Moron or a miscseption
that investing is mandatory.Fricken socialist dreamer.

And you believe there is something wrong with it?

Just to clarify. Adenauer opposed Hitler, was persecuted and imprisoned by the Nazis, rebuilt democracy in West Germany and pushed for the repayment of reparations towards Israel. Calling him a fascist or Nazi was and is patently absurd. The GDR was a state built on opression, full of hypocrisy and contradictions and it encouraged lies about its' opponents.

That is not comparable to what is happening here. Do you think the people working the KZ Sachensenhausen memorial are all crazy leftists who used lies to justify their position towards Höcke?


Do you advocate that we should put the "performance" of the Wehrmacht in the spotlight of our remembrance instead of the various crimes they commited? Should we, as a consequence, put e.g. emphasis in the future on how swiftly the Wehrmacht overran France and how well executed several encirclement campaigns in the Soviet Union have been? I can understand the desire to feel proud about one's history. There are in fact many things in our history one can feel proud about. But nothing about waging a war that killed millions and millions of innocent is something to be proud about.


There are certainly some people who drive it too far. It is not so lang ago that Wolfgang Schäuble was called a Nazi for his positions in the Euro debt crisis.

But this isn't the case with the AfD. When the New York Times writes that AfD is echoing Nazi messages, then that is not a political statement, but simply a description of reality. There are plenty of examples from the AfD to support this view. Höcke has been convicted for deliberately using the slogan of the SA. How do you call that?

And this is my final, most important point: Nobody is forcing the AfD to go into this direction. There was an alternative for the "Alternative". They could have followed the examples of Le Pen and Meloni: Advocating conservative values and very strict anti-migration measures, while throwing out the really crazy people (like e.g. Le Pens' own father). Instead they went the opposite route and purged those politicians who tried to reign them in. To the degree that "Melonisierung" is now a derogative term in the AfD for a process that needs to be avoided at all costs. That was not inevitable, but a conscious decision of those within the AfD.

Post 3.

Tacitus is dead right, apropos a post of mine from several weeks prior. The Old Man
was indeed a most adamantly anti-Nazi Lord Mayor of Cologne during the critical years of
the 1930's.

It is ironic therefore that during his initial term in Office, he frequently selected
former top Nazis to fill key cabinet posts, among them, the infamous legal mind who
drafted the Nueremberg Laws, "Dr" Hans Globke. Theodor Oberlaender was also an
Adenauer appointee during the second phase of the Economic Miracle, if memory serves
me correctly. Oops, it might actually have been Erhard, my apologies!

Hey, Tacitus, are you going to post those examples or not?

You know it...I know it....thing is you will never hear that from their former leaders and their current sympathisants! They will tell you that YOU are the bad one, the one with not enough education, the Nazi, the paid agent or just to stupid....maybe even all at once!


I'm not sure about that....and what happened in Sachsenhausen. Höcke didn't deny the Holocaust, didn't he! And I know though that the "Erinnerungskultur" in the GDR was already a different one than the one Wessies are used to...for example Jews played barely a role....not much about a Holocaust, but all about the brave Soviets and Communists...so...


That's the core of the misunderstanding yesterday, I think....why "instead" and not "also"?
I totally support the teaching in schools about the big history....but our Opa's are our own ancestors! Researching their lifes is more than a war crime, both should be possible at the same time!


They didn't start out that way....

...Die AfD wurde 2013 als europaskeptische, wirtschaftsliberale und nationalliberale Partei gegründet....

The old "elites" are as much to blame for their radicalization as the party leaders themselves. I still remember the mocking and ridicule of them in the beginning....nobody tried to take them seriously, that they maybe even had a point....

Hey, Tac, I am still waiting for those examples...

Again, post-War West Germany was chocked full of former Nazis,
often in the same posts as they'd held right before the end of the War,
Camp doctors, for example one Herta Oberhaeuser of Ravensbrueck!

She was actually re-admitted to practice openly in the small North German
town of Bad Segesberg until the late '60's and I had the rare chance to
catch her final interview or so on German TV. When members of the
studio audience in Hamburg were asked their reactions to a former
Concentration Camp physician being allowed to resume her post, one
woman replied, "Oh, but I think those victims were only Jewish children, or?"

The more times change, the more they stay the same.

Not only West-Germany, Lyzko....that article might interest you:

mdr.de/geschichte/ddr/politik-gesellschaft/entnazifizierung-nazis-in-der-ddr-100.html

....Die SED hatte 1948 auf Empfehlung Stalins nicht nur die Initiative zur Gründung der National-Demokratischen Partei Deutschlands (NDPD) als Auffangbecken für "geläuterte" NS-Kader und Wehrmachtssoldaten ergriffen, sondern auch selbst in großem Stil ehemalige NSDAP-Mitglieder und andere NS-Belastete in ihren Reihen aufgenommen. Bereits 1946 hatte die SED die Aufnahmekriterien für diese Klientel offiziell vereinfacht. In dieser Zeit lag der Anteil an ehemaligen NSDAP-Mitgliedern bei acht bis zehn Prozent aller SED-Genossen. Die SED führte in ihren Kaderakten genaue Listen über ehemalige Zugehörigkeit ihrer Mitglieder zur NSDAP bzw. deren Suborganisationen. Nach außen jedoch wurde die braune Vergangenheit belasteter SED-Mitglieder nicht publik, oft sogar bewusst verschleiert. ....

I guess the situation was similiar, in East and West....to many "has beens", no rebuilding possible without them..

Thanks, B.B.
In fact, I was aware of that tidbit of information as well. I only mentioned the FRG
since the West touted herself as having moved beyond the indelible shadows of the
Hitler Era, when to be completely truthful, this was far from the case.

Some called it a "Lebenslüge"....with timely distance one could say it was impossible...I dunno either country could have worked with all these people left out...and what to do with them instead?

More an "Abwehrmechanismus" or "defense mechanism" than anything else, I'd say! When the Mitscherlichs
wrote "The Inability to Mourn" (Die Unfaehigkeit zu trauern) in 1967, Mitscherlich was dubbed the nastiest names in the
German press. Germans simply couldn't handle the truth.

I dunno....I sometimes compare it with the "Wende"....afterwards not many wanted to have anything more to do with their SED-past...

Everybody knows/knew the truth but most just try/tried to survive/adapt to the new rules...that is totally different from "not being able to handle it"!

Now I think a real processing of the events is only be possible with the next generation. A new generation not being directly involved/tainted...and that will be so with every big happening in any country, the Corona-Crisis for example. There is no real reprocessing possible with the deciders still alive and often enough still in power...

Perhaps you're right. After all, you grew up there. I grew up hearing German all around me
from earliest childhood here in the States, but never set foot on German soil until I was a grad student in the summer
of '87. At the time, we were still in East vs. West Germany and the world was waaaay less globalized
than it is today.

Of course....that wall was not for nothing! ;)

There's always pre-Wall vs. post-Wall Europe.

....astounding what long shadow only a few generations growing up differently can throw...I wonder for the first time if it will ever go away.

How can Europe ever unify if not even Germany can? Maybe we just aren't meant to...

My few morose cents for the night *waves*

There was a volume which appeared during the mid-90's called "Die Vergangenheit die nicht vergehen will"
(The past that will not pass away), written by a German historian, if I recall the title correctly, and discusses the
Holocaust as a sort of black hole, into which all of post-War German history has been sucked.

Europe has never been as united as it is now.

By what though? Some might say through Europlish, on the other hand,
the more Trump's tariffs begin to take effect long term, who's to say?

What will that effect be?