Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany?

well the german population once elected hitler so can you blame them for changing this?

I am just correcting false claims that you have made.


So fake news then. You are arguing like most voters of the AfD do. When challenged with facts, they'll just ignore them.


Now imagine how well the UK would be doing now if it hadn't commited the folly of Brexit.It wasn't the EU's fault that the German econony got dependent on Russian gas and the Chinese market.


Or makes it even more vulnerable to it. It is possible for a party in the UK to gain a majority in the elections despite receiving less than 40% of the votes. Sure this can be somewhat alleviated by all other parties uniting agains the Reform candidate, but that is not a long-term solution. And once those alliances break,FPTP means that the extremist party will find it even easier to gain and maintain power. Farage and his party were able to blackmail the Tories into this disastrous Brexit course precisely because losing even some votes to them would have allowed Labour to gain their seats.

FPTP is really nothing to brag about. It is an outdated system that for good reasons has not been adopted by any country that has undergone a democratic transformation in the last few decades. If we had FPTP, there would be already AfD governments in several East German states.

What is "extreme" in the AfD agenda?

It seems like everything, starting with the name.

OK, I got it. You are clueless.

Only plausible deniability weasels use "seems".

You aren't. You're trying to defend an indefensible attempt at a superstate.

And going off topic since you really are obsessed with that trade bloc. I didn't bother reading the rest of your rant except for the bit at the end:


It very much is, since your system has allowed neo-Nazis in the afd to hold public office and brought your last government down.

FPTP means that despite all the r*SSian funded PR, Farage's people don't even have 1% of MPs, nobody in the upper house and control of no cities.

What is "extreme" in the AfD agenda?


Grow up.

I am not the one defending the indefensible (Brexit) here by just ignoring the evidence brought against my position.


The only offices the AfD holds are those that require a direct, simple majority vote like e.g. mayors of small towns. Not exactly something that was brought on by proportional representation. I am sure you have seen the electorial maps, showing large parts of the GDR in the colours of the AfD. If we had FPTP, then the AFD would actually be running those states by now.


Just a reminder. Since 2010, the UK had 6 different PMs. Only one of whom has actually managed to last an entire term. One of your PMs couldn't outlast a lettuce. You had 3 premature elections called. Now I wouldn't use that necessarily as an argument as FPTP (there are honestly better ones who don't fall back on specific situations) but it hardly guarantees stability.


Which is fine and all, but it is not like they went into this election with even a remote chance of getting even a relative majority and ended up with less than 15% of the total votes. What is really going to interesting is what happens if they go into the next election with 29%+ (their current poll numbers).

With FPTP you can actually end up with a government that has only won slightly more than 30% of the total vote shares. And any system that rewards a determined, united minority can fall prey to extremists. Historically speaking, most extremists who succeeded did not get into power by convincing more than half of the population to follow them/vote for them. They usually relied on a sizeable minority of people who fought passionately for their cause until the rest resigned/ceased their resistance or fell victim to infighting.

Crikey. You really are obsessed with the EU, aren't you.

I'll not bother to actually read your post, only to say that everything's been fine since leaving and the political situation there is far better and more stable than other major countries tries in Europe.

Within the last month, I've been in your country, in France, in the U.K. and in Poland. The first two just feel so poor and run down compared to Britain and Poland. Less in the shops, nothing new opening and palpably poor infrastructure.

You also keep trying to deliberately distract from the topic of the thread because it embarrasses you. Just to remind readers, the topic is not the EU and not other European countries that are either menders of it or aren't.

The topic is re-emergence of fascism in Germany, due to the rise of the neo-Nazi AfD. A worry for those of us who live in Poland due to what happened last time fascists held office there.

What??? Why was Brexit indefensible????


What has that got to do with Brexit??


He is and especially Brexit......


I agree 100% with your assessment Jon.


A fair assessment.

Tacitus obviously has some comprehension problems.

He probably means well, however doesn't seem to have any problems with (and in fact seems obsessed with) the idea of a transnational superstate.

And I've said here before, if someone's foreign they should not try to understand Britain or how the British think and behave. They will fail.

Of course his last few very long posts are just trying to deflect from the sad topic of this thread.


I forgot to mention Belgium. There too last month. What struck me was that much of Brussels reminded me of the east part of Warsaw 25 years ago, only more run down. Plenty of fascists there too.

We sometimes forget that despite unification, some of the places where the neo-Nazi AfD get a lot of votes are not prosperous places to live.

As I've written above, the UK had since 2010 6 different PMs and 2 premature elections. That is hardly stable.


Well, more with correcting misinformation.


To Poland I'd agree. But the UK? Please. I have been
to Manchester and Birmingham.

Your initial question was how people in the West and South are reacting to the rise of the AfD. I tried to illustrate it how they view them likely similar to how comparable people in the UK view Farage and his ilk.


Nothing. Jon made the claim that the FPTP system is good for political stability and contrasted it to the system that supposedly led to the collapse of the previous German government. I just pointed out to him the evidence for that is not really there.

In fact there are reasons to believe that the AfD might benefit more from a FPTP system. They would no longer need to convince a majority to vote for them. A determined, strategically placed minority would suffice.


Almost as if poor, desperate people may end up voting for populist positions and proposals ... . Trump, Brexit, Le Pens voter, now the AfD. There is a clear pattern there. But no one has really found an answer how to solve this.

Even if Merz gets the refugee numbers drastically down to e.g. 100k. I doubt this would actually make a difference to most AfD voters.