Will PiS be happy if AfD wins elections in Germany?

...and its not only me....a survey from 12/24:




theeuropean.de/gesellschaft-kultur/insa-78-prozet-glauben-aus-angst-vor-konsequenzen-aeussere-nicht-jeder-seine-meinung-frei

And now the attempt to jail critics and ban the biggest opposition party?

WTF happened? How did we let it come so far in Germany?

After the Mauerfall '89 we thought we had won, we were free for good.....

The worst enemy of "freedom and democracy" are nice people.

Like Tacitus, Barney, Atch,...

Freedom and democracy thrives when citizens are mean SOBs like me.

Not exactly, the greatest enemies of democracy are those who elect undemocratic parties, such as the NSDAP in the 1930s. You know well what party I am thinking of these days.

....and who decides which is an undemocratic party?

The gov? They decide now which opposition is allowed?

Do you know that the SED called the GDR-opposition also Nazis? Influenced by the bad and mean West?
They named the Wall "anti fascist protection wall"....rescuing the good DDRler like me from western fascism...

@Alien, you can frame EVERYTHING to your liking...doesn't has to mean sh*it!

I assume that's what they did, after all, even as a young boy, when traveling to the Federal Republic of Germany through the GDR, I immediately recognized where there was democracy and where there wasn't.

That's what I mean....but calling themselves German DEMOCRATIC Republic!

One can call things like they want....democratic = anti-democratic.....or critic = hate and incitement....doesn't has to mean sh*it!

So...when the political rival calls the adversary anti-democratic is worthless!

And don't liking their opinions can never be a reason for a ban....then our democracy becomes a joke!

bild.de/politik/inland/afd-als-gesichert-rechtsextrem-faesers-letzte-amtshandlung-warum-gerade-jetzt-6814ae28de873d21037e8b89


The Verfassungsschutz has been once a widely respected and powerful office....over all political leanings, acknowledged by all sides....no longer!

PS: Faeser denies anybody insight into that notorious "report"....she says for security reasons all sources have to stay secret.

Doesn't that fit, huh! Decide things and people just have to accept it and live with it....

I ***** can't believe it!

That is why we have courts who decide what still follows the law and what does now.


And rightists can sue again this description or e.g. fascist. Of course courts may also decide that based on public statements from the person in question, this may actual count as a factual description (e.g. Höcke).


Ultimately this will be decided by the German Constitutional Court.

Before that another court will decide whether or not the recognition by the Verfassungsschutz is justified.

The AfD are not victims here. They just reap the consequences of their actions. There have been man voices even inside the party who have warned in the last few years that the party was attracting and promoting the wrong kind of people. Their two past leaders Petry and Meuthen wanted to against those extremists, but ended up disgraced and leaving the party.

And if that is not enough, every time the AfD gets a victory or some influence, they immediately use it to confirm those fears. That disgraceful performance by the senior president of the Landtag in Thuringia comes to mind.


True. And if the AfD is banned, it is not because the Court decides that they don't like their pension plan, but because they are found to be actively working against the democratic order of Germany.

If they find proof then the AfD will have deserved that....thing is, till now nobody showed any real proof!

To hate Islam, to want to limit islamist migration, wanting to "remigrate" criminal muslims who have never integrated into the german society has nothing to do with undermining the democratic order of Germany, how could that be!

Abusing an offical, neutral governmental department to get rid of your biggest political rival is!

Using rhetoric to incite hatred against muslims and migrants and denying that German muslims are real Germans and question their citizenship however may very well be used against them in court. And my understanding is that there are plenty of examples for that by AfD politicians.


All the Verfassungsschutz did was observing the AfD and collecting evidence. The AfD can now sue against the classification. If they lose, it is not because the Verfassungsschutz was abused, but because the evidence they built was so strong that it was deemed sufficient by an independent court. Again, the AfD are not victims here. The party chose a strategy that inevitably raises doubt about their loyaly to the German constitution.

Well....there are reasons for their growing popularity! Being outspoken against the many problems the german society has with many muslim immigrants is one of them!

Again....if THAT is truly the one main thing they have, any ban attempt will have no chance at all...after all disliking Islam is so far away from any real planning for a "putsch", to take over the gov and build a dictatorship, it's ridiculous!

One has nothing to do with the other!

Germany's migration policy is a rolling disaster that just gets worse and there's no will in the German establishment to recognize that (much less deal with it).

How many unemployable talahons and their families can Germany support?

On the other hand, I want all German parties to be _rigorously_ investigated for russian ties (SPD and AfD first among them).

....yeah....if they find proof for Moscow somehow financing the AfD, Putin using them for his purpose, that is another thing altogether.

But right now they are called rightwing extremists and fascists and Nazis because they don't want Germany changed slowly but surely into a Kalifat! That's seemingly enough to be "verboten"!

Well.....lets see....

On the contrary. If confirmed those views may be in direct contradiction with several cornerstones of the German constitution, starting with article 1.

The issue here is not their criticism of islam, but that they are allegedly inciting hatred against all who follow the religion (or look like they do). Now where in our history has a political movement stoked hatred against a group of people that were seen as part of a religion?

To give you an example: You can criticize the Catholic church, e.g. their doctrine that prevents women from becoming priests and how they handled the child abuse scandals.

However if you make wildly exaggerated, insulting and false claims that e.g. "all Catholics are women-hating, child-raping devils who are destroying Germany and need to be deported to the Vatican" than you would likely find yourself in trouble with the law because you are defaming a whole group of people in a way that may incite violence against them.

That is why e.g. calling refugees "Messermänner"and other derogatory terms by the AfD turns up in the report by the Verfassungsschutz.

Whether or not those allegations are true will be left to the courts to decide.

Anytime the Left calls non-Leftist "Nazi" they show what they think of this article and the honour of those who don't agree with them!
They keep calling criticism "Hass und Hetze"....they even call for a ban of the social media (because of to much "Hass und Hetze" of course there)....and now the cry for banning the biggest opposition party!

Non-Leftists have no right of any honour, they are just bad people...with the wrong opinions...because they are to stupid! No honour for them, right Tacitus?

And for the rest, there are about 50 islamic countries....which is okay....if they like it that way in their countries, who cares! They can do and believe in their countries what they want! But this is Germany....and Germany, and Europe, just isn't compatible with Islam....their stoneage beliefs don't fit our evolved society, that is just a fact!

Don't you find it interesting that the same leftists shooting against the christian churches for decades (as they had been still conservative that is) are now loving the much more backwards women-queer-jew-hostile Islam? Coincidence???

That stinks so much, can't you smell it, Tac?

Again, we are not talking about criticism of Islam here.

That is the point of that "Gutachten" nobody gets to see....

Not one proof being about secret machinations to undermine the democracy in Germany (or Faeser would had that presented for 24 hours now and we would see it on all channels)....only about criticism of Islam!

....anyhow....nice discussion but have to leave now....

*waves*

stop your racist whining, and allow Hauptsturmführer Tacticus to put you in railway car for equity and diversity re-education.

The AfD didn't have anything substantial to respond either.

They shouldn't have to...

If some members committed crimes, charge them and convicted them.

But this is what the slime like you doesn't have any evidence to prove. Damn...

Slime like you wants them banned. For the good of the country, of course...

BB, I feel sorry for you. As a consolation, I hereby name you an Honorary US Citizen of the Year.

@Tacitus, I too am cautiously optimistic, however, let's hope and pray the AfD
gets its wings clipped, so to speak, by the even stronger forces of democracy.

While Germany surely struggles with her freedoms in the wake of WWII, as long
as men and women such Hoecke and Weidel are loose on the political scene,
reason and sanity are never safe!

Do ck.your e-mail from time to time.

It's the only party aligned with citizen concerns about migration.

Again.... how many unemployable talahons can Germany support?

At present... once an unemployable talahon crosses the German border he can never be removed (in practical terms at least).

They don't assimilate they don't work and they keep coming.

How is that sustainable?

Only a sick Jew would say shlt like this..."So to speak..."...WTF is that supposed to mean, moron...

In a democracy, only voters are allowed to "clip", you stupid Jew...


Learn English, idiot...

We struggle with what we don't want. We struggle to get out of prison, not to get into it.

Nobody struggles with freedom. We struggle for freedom.


Good question. I set a timer awaiting Lyzko's response to it.

Rich, The Federal Republic most certainly does struggle WITH freedom
in the sense that even today, references to Hitler, however casual or ironic,
much less a mock Hitler salute, will land the offender in the clink for an
indefinite period of time.

In the US, such an offender will be reviled and probably attacked verbally or
physically, yet we still allow such a person the right to freedom of expression.

In Germany, this is still not the case.

Why only recently, a seemingly harmless pun landed a Duesseldorf teacher in hot water,
albeit spoken after work hours! It went something like this and was oft heard in private circles
during the early years of the Third Reich: "Hitler wollte Fuehrer sein, hat doch keinen Fuehrerschein."
As with any such word play, it can't be translated verbatim. Suffice to say, it's a take off on the German
words "Fuehrer" (leader,guide) and "Fuehrerschein" (driver's license).

No. Germans struggle for freedom to speak freely.

They still suffer from the remnants of fascism, communism and Western Euro style of freedom of speech with asteriscs and howevers.

It's time to go the American way, adopt the First Amendment, and struggle FOR or With freedom no more.

Joker is right. You would be perfect as a KGB or Stasi leash operator.

Cowards always state the obvious. Never what they feel about it.

You have a very biased view of freedom of speech in Europe.

Yes, I would agree that you have "slightly" more freedom of speech in the USA than Europe, but when the Yanks clamp down on it, they clamp down very hard, with long sentences.I prefer the European "freedom of speech", because we can at least fight our convictions, unlike in the USA's almost totalitarian state.

Oh lookie:


bild.de/politik/inland/gesichert-rechtsextremistisch-faeser-hat-afd-bericht-fachlich-nicht-geprueft-6816378a12ee6b68d1b86f2a

....Germany is trembling - the CDU/CSU is fuming!

Because, according to BILD reports, Faeser herself pushed hard to publish the expert opinion's verdict before the change of power from the red-green coalition to the black-red coalition on Tuesday! And: According to statements from CDU/CSU and security circles, she "did not have the report technically reviewed" in her ministry! Yet the ministry and the minister also have explicit technical oversight of the domestic intelligence service.

Even in Faeser's SPD, no one believes in coincidence.....

Did Germany ever had a worse minister of the interior???

Name one American who was sentenced for posting his opinions on the Internet.