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Polish constitution supersede the EU treaties and regulations


jon357 67 | 17,551
11 Oct 2021 #31
"The provisions of the Constitution shall apply directly unless the Constitution provides otherwise."

Exactly. And it more than amply "provides otherwise", as you were told in post #29.

over 70 000

Well over 100,000 in all the streets around, many of which are far from 'narrow'.

And no matter how much you hate it, there are just going to be more and more Polish pro-democracy protests.
Novichok 1 | 4,255
11 Oct 2021 #32
more and more Polish pro-democracy protests.

...as opposed to pro-tyranny?
OP Spike31 3 | 2,446
11 Oct 2021 #33
Exactly. And it more than amply "provides otherwise", as you were told in post #29.

You're not very capable of understanding a written text, are you? Do you think that if you provide some ambiguous statement like "more than amply" it will do? :-)

"The provisions of the Constitution shall apply directly unless the Constitution provides otherwise."

This means "Constitution is the supreme law in Poland" and unless the Constitution, not the external political treaties or regulations, says otherwise it should be applied directly. All other regulations are of lesser importance than the constitution by default.

Mr. Tusk knows that and that's why he wants to change the Polish constitution to include the EU in it and make Poland a vassal state*

*wydarzenia.interia.pl/kraj/news-donald-tusk-chce-zmienic-konstytucje-apeluje-do-jaroslawa-ka,nId,5490087

But, by all means, feel free to read the full text of the constitution and quote me the paragraphs that cede the supreme power from the constitution to the EU or any other external political power. Quote me relevant paragraphs from the constitution or go to a Random thread to discuss weather...
jon357 67 | 17,551
11 Oct 2021 #34
You're not very capable of understanding a written text,

Evidently rather better than you.

Just to remind you (it's one of the more nuanced bits, so ask someone intelligent to help you):



OP Spike31 3 | 2,446
11 Oct 2021 #35
Art 91. §1]

Yes, a "ratified international agreement shall constitute the part of the domestic legal order" as long as it doesn't contradict nor stand against the constitution of Poland because:

"The Constitution shall be the supreme law of the Republic of Poland."

To put it simply: the constitution is the most important law and all other legal agreements are of lesser importance. Those international agreements are being respected as long as they don't defy the paragraphs of the constitution (which is a supreme law of Poland...)

For example:

Article 10, §2 states:

"executive power shall be vested in the President of the Republic of Poland and the Council of
Ministers and the judicial power shall be vested in courts and tribunals"

Poland as a member of the EU [international agreement] takes into account the EU law [as a lesser form of law than Polish constitution], however, when the EU beaurocrats are trying to usurp itself more powers that were given to them by treaties and especially to usurp the powers that are limited to Polish constitution only (which is a supreme law o Poland...) the government shall stop it and show them their place.

Did I mention that the constitution is the supreme law of Poland?

And no matter how much you hate it

I like it. Not only I'm not against the right to protest but I'm also even more against pandemic paranoia and gathering like that helps a lot to fight it. I just don't like those lies about the number of protesters who show up.
jon357 67 | 17,551
11 Oct 2021 #36
Talk about obtuse!

You were shown the text, and predictably you tried to relativise it.

And of course your straw-clutching attempt to relativise it is wrong...
Novichok 1 | 4,255
11 Oct 2021 #37
Spike, I feel your pain...
Cojestdocholery
13 Oct 2021 #38
Not only Polish, the same goes for Germany, France, Italy and Greece and then some.
Somehow the EU wise men decided that only Poland is not allowed to do what most of other EU countries has had done already.
Are they hoping for Polexit?
Novichok 1 | 4,255
13 Oct 2021 #39
Somehow the EU wise men decided that only Poland is not allowed

Their tolerance is proportional to the number of Muslim refugees, abortions, and gay adoptions. To them, Poland is hell.
jon357 67 | 17,551
13 Oct 2021 #40
Somehow the EU wise men decided that only Poland is not allowed to do

That's pretty well the opposite of the truth.

Are they hoping for Polexit?

Nobody is.
Novichok 1 | 4,255
13 Oct 2021 #41
Nobody is.

In alternate English, not a single person. Not even one.
jon357 67 | 17,551
13 Oct 2021 #42
Not many, at any rate. Not even Sasin.
Novichok 1 | 4,255
13 Oct 2021 #43
That's infinity times more and more realistic. Getting better...
jon357 67 | 17,551
13 Oct 2021 #44
Nobody sane, anyway...
pawian 179 | 16,332
13 Oct 2021 #45
what most of other EU countries has had done already.

Of course it is a lie.

Are they hoping for Polexit?

No, you are. :)
OP Spike31 3 | 2,446
13 Oct 2021 #46
Arnaud Montebourg, another French presidential candidate after Eric Zemmour and Marine Le Pen, has supported Poland in the clash with the EU over the supremacy of the national constitution over EU treaties. He wants to do the same in France.

What's interesting, Arnaud Montebourg is far from the right-wing of French politics and on the opposite side to Eric Zemmour.

"I have no sympathy for the Polish government, but it is ultimately the democratic decision of the Poles to choose the government they want"

"I believe that the affirmation of a Constitution must be superior, in the degree it wishes, to the decisions which are taken by the European Union. (...) "the fact that a Member State wishes to reaffirm the supremacy of its national law seems to me to be the path that France must take ".

europe1.fr/politique/pologne-la-relation-de-lue-avec-la-democratie-est-problematique-denonce-montebourg-4070789
pawian 179 | 16,332
13 Oct 2021 #47
Arnaud Montebourg

Why should we care what some unimportant populist foreign politician says?

seems to me to be the path that France must take ".

Certainly not under his presidency. Currently the support for him is around a few %.
Miloslaw 12 | 3,116
13 Oct 2021 #48
@Spike31

This is the problem with The EU.
In their attempt to create a homogenous EU they are.running roughshod like a tank.over national and cultural opinions.
The EU will.fail.
Not soon, but in time.....
Novichok 1 | 4,255
13 Oct 2021 #49
over national and cultural opinions.

...using the old and proven fascist one size must fit all technique.
jon357 67 | 17,551
13 Oct 2021 #50
a homogenous EU

That's largely down to the French, who believe their own system is perfect and practically worship homogeneity.
OP Spike31 3 | 2,446
13 Oct 2021 #51
Why should we care what some unimportant populist foreign politician says?

Not one but 3 of them, and from a different political backgrounds.

Not unimportant ones but presidential candidates designated by their political parties.

And not from some small, politically isolated country but from France. The EU cannot exist without France in any serious form or shape since Gemany, France and Benelux provide a structure for this corrupted beaurocratic left-leaning institution.

Nobody sane, anyway...

Sure, who even heard about Brexit anyway?
jon357 67 | 17,551
13 Oct 2021 #52
populist foreign politician

Exactly, including the two far-right 'populists' Zemmour and Le Pen. Sh1t stirrers the pair of them (though if Zemmour stands, at least he'll split the far-right vote). Montebourg is a bit of a character too.

At least Zemmour isn't part of any political party.
Korvinus 1 | 129
14 Oct 2021 #53
Are they hoping for Polexit?

Britain only left bc they were a net payer. No EU country will leave as long as it's a net recipient. And the Germs will never tighten the spigots for Polant coz their highest and the most solemn goal is to preserve EU unity.

This entire charade will end only with a currency or budget crisis when Germoney won't be afford to feed their own army of turk gibs AND everyone else too anymore. As soon as that happens (and with inflation getting out of hand currently it might be sooner than we think) the EU is dead within 2 years.
jon357 67 | 17,551
14 Oct 2021 #54
Britain only left bc they were a net payer.

Again, no. There were many reasons that people voted the way they did, and it's worth remembering that the vote was very close. It is a divisive issue.

the EU is dead within 2 years.

Very unlikely.

And it's worth remembering that Poland has a very high level of support for membership. Even the PiSuarzy were surprised at how totally wrongfooted they were by the response to their bolky lolky.
Cojestdocholery
14 Oct 2021 #55
Britain only left bc they were a net payer.

I have thought they left because they hate foreginers and the EU rules meant they couldn't stop them from coming.
jon357 67 | 17,551
14 Oct 2021 #56
they hate foreginers

Less so than in most places.
Cojestdocholery
14 Oct 2021 #57
Do you agree with me or not?
jon357 67 | 17,551
14 Oct 2021 #58
Of course not 'guest poster'; since it is not a country of haters.

Migration was a factor that played its part for some though not for others. The reasons for the (very slim) majority in favour are complex. In Poland however, there is a huge majority in favour of EU membership.
Cojestdocholery
14 Oct 2021 #59
huge majority in favour of EU membership.

It has been qestioned. The way pooling has been done affect it result.

Of course not 'guest poster'

Let agree to disagree 'jon357'.
jon357 67 | 17,551
14 Oct 2021 #60
It has been qestioned.

So has everything. That doesn't mean it has been answered.

The way pooling has been done affect it result.

Always, however the results of (different) polls are all consistently very high.


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