Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe.

Building regional alliance to stabilize Eastern Europe to prevent future chaos in this part of the world.
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Given external international and global circumstances Poland should build connections and strong relations with a few key countries of the region.
I'm going to list those countries from the North to the South:
-Finland
-Sweden
-Poland
- Ukraine
-Turkey
Of course more countries are welcome, would like to join or could join our little regional alliance.
In no partcural order:
-The Baltic States
-Romania
- Hungary
- Germany
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By the way, due to the new development of international relations and its unpredictable nature, Poland should, if possible, give up the purchase of F-35 and American HIMARS as well as American-made rockets. Those machines, unless Americans hand over all the controls (codes) are worse than useless.

BS. You omit Germany in the primary group cos you are nationalistically prejudiced against them. No alliance has a chance to be a real heavyweight player without Germans` active participation.
All in all, your ideas are not only delusions but also very dangerous to Poland.

Basically Intermarium minus smaller countries, plus Germany, two Scandinavian countries and Turkey.

Germany is too big (as usual, too big for Europe too small for the world) and would eventually tend towards dominating the alliance economically and politically, the way they dominate the EU. Not a good idea.

Turkey would introduce instability to the alliance, with their military coups, constant tension between lay and religious parties and eternal conflict with Greece, another NATO member. Not a good idea.

Sweden and Finland, OK - they might prove useful.

If we really want to have a strong block within the EU, then smaller countries like Czechia, Slovakia, Bulgaria, Croatia, Slovenia have to be included too, but then we are back at Intermarium, so what's the difference?

This means you also doom the "alliance" to immediate failure before it is even born. :):):)

Definitely we should think about an operational plan with the Czechs and Romanians - the two other countries in this region that are economically developing and would be able to supply manpower and weapons. i think a coalition of the 3 plus our Baltic friends would be enough to beat the NNNs in a conventional war.

That's why it's important to keep Putler's filthy murderers hands off Romania

:):):) There is not enough beer in Poland and Czechia for Czechs to drink to be able to make operational plans for the region. :):):)

Hungary and Serbia are nice example of regional alliance in formation.

It's an idea not a dogma. Such an idea is not contradictory with the regional alliance but complementary.
It is not a question of declaration but a long-term plan and implementation.
So, let's put that idea aside for now and focus on the immediate practical necessity.
Here enter the regional alliance in the Eastern Europe.
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I think it is necessary to be stressed that the idea of key countries is not a slogan. Those countries, for one reason or the other, are a key to build a strong alliance that can stabilize that region.
Other countries which are geographically near are not automatically excluded. They are not key factors in the project. As such they are not that important, ie. Germany to the success of the plan.
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You might ask what those key countries have in common. All of them have a stable economy, strong military both in terms of munitions and manufacturing potential, and military capabilities. ( with the exception of Ukraine which is ravaged by the war) Also, all those countries are directly exposed to Russian imperialism and are vulnerable to Russian possible invasion. So, all those countries share a common foe. Simple.
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Even in this thread we encounter a wonder, a German worshiper. Those are all soviet twats that should stick to framing as they do not even know what they are talking about - old relicts of the bygone era. Belong to the past.

^^

:)

Hmm... very good, Iron. You make a surprisingly lot of sense. Have you considered joining PSL? Poland needs intelligent patriots, immune to outside influence and capable of independent thinking.


Maybe "keen admirer" would be a better term than "worshiper". No man is without his flaws and Pawian, of course, has his own. However, pay attention to his love of Poland, honest patriotism and high potential of monkey viciousness which can be very useful in certain situations. It is my sincere hope that you and Pawian reconcile one day and join your strenghts in fight for the common good of our fatherland.

Of course. There are German worshipers and German haters. And we attain the amasing balance in nature.

All in all, your pathetic "alliance" without Germans will be kids` game in the sandbox. Out of place, out of time.


You are afraid of German domination??? Where is your Polish pride? And your strong belief that Poles/Polesses are able to dominate Germany in the alliance??? Why do you and Iron surrender immediately?

....aaaaand, more importantly, you can't just leave us alone! We get stupid ideas.....so.....to bind us within some union or other is a good idea, it has proven to work already in the recent decades, has it not?

Exactly!!! Germans need to be contained within larger structures. When left on their own, they start getting crazy ideas about themselves and the world around them. :):):)

All in all, the whole idea of a new "alliance" by Iron is complete bollox. Nobody will take it seriously, neither the West nor Russia.
The only chance for Poland to be in a successful alliance is the EU. When we become a crucial country in it, then we will impose our weight on all alliances made under Euro patronage.
But how can we become a key player if there are so many nutters like nationalists and homo sovieticuses here???

Iron speaks like a Polish nationalist who rejects the EU in all its aspects. He is Europhobic, sort of, and his ideas aim at pushing Poland out of the EU.

A very dangerous agenda cos such people like him once led to the partitions of Poland which lasted exactly 123 years.

... we're not leaving you alone! Everybody is still in the EU, but to alleviate the problems of unavoidable decision inertia of such a huge alliance, regional blocks wil facilitate quick and decisive actions when they are necessary. The Weimar Triangle is obviously the leader - and each of the WT countries get their own sphere of influence: France - the Mediterranean, Germany - central Europe with Austria, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark and Luxembourg (the core lands) and Poland the Intermarium (or modifications of it).

It's a win-win-win situation for all three: France, Germany and Poland.


And nobody is even contemplating leaving the EU. I'm sure that's not what Iron meant. Poland must remain a part of united Europe - this is where we belong.

....everybody and their grandmom should know that by now!!!


.....*phew* :)


Agreed! The EU as it is needs to be reformed quite abit to work better....

Exactly. We are not leaving the EU, we just don't give a F about their crazy instructions that would reverse us economically to the Stone Age.
We need to ignore all that to have our economy speedrun and to build our military munitions, rockets, satellites, and nukes.
We can still keep appearances if they don't try to push us too hard.
So Germany can have the illusion of being a boss.
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If Germany would want to join that alliance it has to be on our terms and we would need to watch them closely.
You know Germans as soon as they join an organization have that inner drive to become a leader.
They step on a few toes, push and shove people, slap away the hand that holds the rudder, and say I will show you how it is done.
In short, they would antagonize everyone in the process and they they would try to divert all money from joint projects into the German economy to keep their windmills going and their pensioners nice and cozy and F the rest.
Unfortunately, they are economic chauvinist.
It explains in a nutshell what is basically wrong with the German EU.

.....we are not THAT bad! Surely.....

BB what are you worried about? We are talking about political issues, not about a plebiscite for the most popular country/nation.

....okay....if not Germany, I wonder which one would win, heh:)

I break a three-month imposed ban on you, just this once. To expose not you personally because you are not that important but to expose this way of thinking in Poland.
It is embarrassing to listen to or read such sentences which are a testament to the fact its author is a political kid that has no idea about the way the world works.
If such an alliance materialized and worked, everybody would take it seriously left right, and center. Geez!
Power matters. Economic, military, and political potential matters.

Not once. You will break it many times soon. :):):) . Like Novi.


It is only your wishful thinking.

Besides, I noticed striking inconsistencies in your original list of major countries. You included Ukraine!! How come if you are constantly barking against it in other threads??? Shall I quote your words from dozens of posts??? You are steadfastly against Polish support for Ukraine now so what alliance with it are you thinking of in that little mind of a funny bear of yours??????? hahahaha

That is why I said: your alliance is bollox, your idea is sucked from the finger and the whole thread is a waste of time cos you are bored at home. I understand you wanted to show as "intelligent " Iron for a change but you failed.

I checked Iron`s input on Ukraine.

Here is what I got among others:


And this guy is suggesting an alliance in which Ukraine is included as one of major partners????

Who will fall for that???

Do you know why nobody is commenting on your politcial input? Not because you are so wise and so insightful. It is the opposite - you are that much clueless that nobody even bothers to take you seriously.
Your embarrassing whining oh nobody will take it seriously, oh west this or that, it can't be done. you are such a stupid subspecies that will crawl up into anybody's ass and compliment them that they keep you warm. Just shut up you F peasant already!
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As for Ukraine, I don't like them, Also all /I have been saying is that Poland should have a Polish policy, not Ukrainian one - simple.
As for part of the alliance they are a key country but we can do it without them, although having them in would be advantageous, not because they are right or fight Russia but because they have potential that can be useful for us. Simple.

It is quite simple. My comments are ultimate truth and do not require further discussion cos there is nothing new and worth reading after I take voice. Ha!!!!!


AmaSSing logic. Sth is key but we can do without it.
How about doing without any additional alliance at all ???? And instead depending on the EU???


Inconsistency. In other threads you were against Poland`s contribution into preserving Ukrainian potential and now you are planning to use it.
Can you decide what you want???

Guys and guyesses, you have just seen amasing example of daydreaming by a Polish imbecile who strongly believes he can transfer his kindergarten sandbox games into the real world of politics.

Another bollox by the OP. He suggests an alliance with pro Putin pro Russian Hungary.

Goddess!!! You are watching it and not sending a thunder??

Someone explain to me the logic of including Turkey into the list but not Germany. I mean seriously, Turkey is involved in geopolitical conflicts with most of its' neighbours and picked one with Israel. Conflicts on which Poland is usually supportive of the other side.

Makes very little sense for Poland
Yes it has steel, industry and military know how. It's specialised for Nordic environment.

Sweden has ambitions that are higher then their own capabilities and potentials, often also in contrast with Poland's own ambitions AND values.

Sweden has pushed for leftist ideologies within in the EU a lot, a little swing politically would make that a nightmare to behold for ANY partner. (Economically, politically or militarily)

Norway is a far more attractive partner for Poland due to Norway's economic capabilities but, also Norways naval expertise that would contribute to Poland's lacking naval capabilities in the baltics.

Norway has no history of meddling in Poland's internal affairs at the level of Sweden, nor has any natural reason to be or become a security risk for Poland. Both border Russian Federation and Norway has a need of agricultural produce, that Poland can easily fill in with her agricultural market.

Norwegian investments and even owning of land in North-western Poland would become a bump for any Swedish or German meddling that would be deemed a security risk by any sane Pole.

I will. It is the logic of a sandbox game in which kids build fortresses and make alliances based on who they like or dislike coz Jack once stole a toy from Paul while Pam spat into Alex`s soup.


Exactly!!! You mustn`t build a sand fortress higher than mine!! If you do, I will destroy it with my toy shovel!! And later I will report you to our Miss! I am warning you!!

Germany is mentioned in the list.

Probably Turkey is a better bet due to its growing economy and infrastructure however Erdogan is 71 and waiting to see how things progress is a good idea. Germany needs to sort out the r*SSia supporting elements in the east, especially in public life before anything else.

Hungary is an odd country to have in the list, largely due to its r*SSophilic fascist President and deteriorating human rights (Turkey isn't perfect however they are at least growing and developing).

The strangest omission is the U.K. Europe's main scientific, technological and cultural powerhouse, its main financial centre, its most politically stable major country and one of its two nuclear states.

Ironsides thinking is very similar to Strategy & Future think-tank in Poland.
Sweden and Turkey are included because they have a military production capability that can replace American products. (Gripen fighter etc) Turkey is included because it has the biggest army on the european continent and sees Russia as it's historical enemy.
The alliance is geographical, and countries who historically have had grievances have an explicit motivation to align.

Germany is not included because it we all know it will betray it's frontier neighbors in the future, for economic relations with russia.

Yes, it is, but in his later post Iron explained they are hugely unwelcome in his "alliance. "


Exactly!!! They will betray us if they are left outside the alliance. That is why they need to be in it as a heavy weight player.
BB and me explained it before.

You can't just leave us alone! We get stupid ideas