Why do Poles talk so badly about Poland?

I'm a Spanish student who has recently enrolled in an international degree in American Studies in a public Polish university. I'm already established in the country and while I was preparing every thing to live here, I navigated through this website to know as many things as possible about Poland before arriving. Once I'm here I cannot stop wondering something; why do Poles talk so negatively about Poland to foreigners that are planning to move here to study or work? According to most Poles writing here:

-Poland universities are **** (my international degree in American Studies with teachers and lecturers from American universities like New York is much better than any degree that I could have studied in a public Spanish university, and for free).

-It's impossible to find a job in Poland, mostly if Polish isn't your mother tongue and you are a student (Well, I must be the most lucky guy in this forum because I had found a part time job even before landing here. Furthermore it is in the video game industry where I want to work in the upcoming years so this experience is invaluable, and taking in count that I pay less than 100 € for my university room with internet included, the money is also very useful. By the way, I got the job with zero Polish knowledge and only my high school certificate).

-Salaries are much lower than in Western Europe, but expences are not much lower. (Salaries are indeed lower, but prices are also significantly lower. Public transport and food in grocery stores are very cheap from my point of view).

-Warsaw is an ugly, grey and sad city. ( I find Warsaw pretty beatiful in contrast with other big cities. It isn't a charming medieval town but skyscraper lights are lovely, and Old Town and New Town are of the best of Europe, independently that they had to be rebuilt. The sight from the Vistula river is very enjoyable).

Am I the most lucky foreigner in Poland, or do Poles talk badly about their country and universities too much because they dislike foreigners coming here to work and study for free?

Those are not Poles, those are foreigners already living in Poland.

If they claim to be from Poland I have no way to contrast their background. But, why would foreign people talk that way about Poland? Polish people could "justify" their over-negative opinions because they think that their economy isn't strong enough how to stand larger amount of immigrates, but why would foreigners do they same?

* immigrants.

They just talk from their experience of living in the country.

Well from my experience, the polish forum is a great resource for anyone who is interested in coming to live or work in Poland .

The Forum has a very large number of ex pats and 2nd and third generation Poles who live abroad and comment from afar, so you could not say that the forum is solely representing the views of the indigenous poles alone. If you can read polish you would get a better grasp whats happening from Polish Language Forums.

Sadly a number of expats and lookers from afar on the forum are not happy with their lot.

The most common problem seems to be that Poland does not conform to the standards and ideals that they have been used to in their own lands, and some think that Poland is in someways backward because it does not choose to accept their ways or ideals.

Poland is very "Polish" as a native pole in the UK told me before I moved here, It has a kind of unique identity.

I think its great fun here, something makes me smile everyday.

Bwhahaha. No, it won't be better. It will be good for cleaning toilets with, and that's being optimistic.

Degrees in Poland taught in English are mostly worthless. Not all, but "American Studies" is the kind of thing known as an "unemployment factory" in Polish. The quality will be low, and when you start to realise that there will be subjects where you'll be expected to memorise the coal production in Kentucky in 1985, then you'll understand.


If it's what I think it is, it will be a scam. Harry knows more, but I seem to remember him talking about some company that was operated a scam in that field in Warsaw.

delphiandomine, your behaviour is exactly what I mean. I never said that I want to live forever in Poland, but when I finish my training that degree will have much more value in the international market than any other humanity degree in Spanish; in fact I will know three languages and this year there have been scholarships to study in Florida for free; I love my unemployment factory that allow their students to study in the USA with a tuition waiver.

Furthermore, I know a Polish girl (who firstly informed me about Poland) that studied Journalism in English in a private university in Warsaw and is currently doing an internship in London, in the BBC.

Who are you trying to convince?

About the job, I'm already working and earning in a temporary position, so it's being a profitable scam...

It's like this, people leave Poland for a multitude of reasons......mostly money however, so y'know of course they're going to have a negative attitude towards a country they feel they were 'forced' to leave.

Poland's fine, it has good points it had bad points. Some things will drive you bonkers here while other things you'll marvel at.

And y'know life's all about having different experiences so just chalk shi!t down to that while you're here...............and for the love of Jaysus, don't eat flaki.

Good question. I suppose when you consider that complaining forms sort of a national hobby, that does explain this attitude to a degree. On the other hand, perhaps being blunt is not all that bad for a healthy psyche? But there is also a lot of bitterness and negativity, most stemming from the fact that things 'could have been done better' when it comes to recent history, politics, and economics... I agree that this is something unique to this part of the world, there is not enough of the positivity for life regardless how hard it may be that one experiences in the southern countries... maybe it's the weather - but probably much more than that...


Back to your mantra, d? One can argue the ranking of the universities and the teaching methodology and the attitude of the professors at for some of the unis is not top class, but on the other hand there are many graduates who go on to become successful - regardless of how hard some individual with an inferiority complex would have you believe.


Agreed.


And why is that? When done the way they should be, there are not many things better on a cold autumn/winter day...


+1 Too many grumpy/dissatisfied people on this forum - probably more with their personal lives than 'Poland' - and posting >80% of the time...


Agreed.

Programming (and generally everything connected with computers) is one of the few industries in Poland in which you can earn really a lot and it's easy to find a job. Other ones are physical works of different type (construction site workers, electricians, plumbers etc. - many of them emigrated after Poland joined the EU and there is to little of them on the market now) and the medicine. It's also an industry in which you don't really need studies.

Expenses are indeed low, but an average Pole earns yet less. Or works much more, then it's true that the income is not so low.


This is also true.

I don't think you understand quite how these degrees work. Any credible employer or anyone offering a scholarship will know that English language degrees from Poland are worthless - cheating is endemic, and absolutely no-one would take the studies as being worth anything at all. Knowing three languages will get you a job in the modern sweatshop that is the SSC, and that's about it.

There might be scholarships, but they will go to Polish students studying on Polish courses - not to people on English programmes. The two are totally and completely different - even from the perspective of the university.


An unpaid internship at the BBC is pretty meaningless - it just means that she paid for the studies and now she's paying for the internship in London. I could get an internship tomorrow in London if I wanted - as long as I'm willing to put up the cash.


Have you actually been paid yet? More importantly, are you being hired under the correct contracts?


There's a huge gulf between Polish courses and English courses however. There are some reasonable English language programmes out there, but the vast majority are just junk designed to attract foreigners that want to study somewhere where they will get a piece of paper without much effort. They'll pay for the courses and the university has a good source of revenue, which is especially important given the huge fall in numbers enrolled on extramural studies.

A friend was caught blatantly cheating in an exam not so long ago. His punishment? He was asked to put his phone on a different desk.

delphiandomine, I must tell you that most international companies have no knowledge about quality of education in foreign countries. The only thing they know is that Oxford, London and Hardvard universities are great, but ask them if is it better a degree in English or Polish from Poland, English or Spanish from Spain, English or Italian from Italy... So if you cannot study in Oxford or such a worldwide known university, the best option is to study in some of the best university you can.

Try to ask to a international company from UK or Germany if they prefer a graduate of "el Grado de Humanidades por la Universidad Carlos III de Madrid" with some knowledge of English, or a graduate of "the international Bachelor of Arts in Cultural Studies, specialization in American Studies, by the American Studies Center and the University of Warsaw" who perfectly knows two languages plus some knowledge of a third language.

The most likely is that the company knows none of the mentioned institutions (Although both are good universities in their countries, I recommend that one if you want to study in Spain), but I would prefer to know three languages and having an specialization with my degree, independently of where I studied, because I couldn't have studied in Oxford.

Furthermore, the scholarship I as talking about was EXCLUSIVELY for students of my degree. The American university is not going to pay a tuition waiver to somebody that studies in a different language than English, mostly when there are students of American Studies. I'll repeat: exclusively for us.

I doubt that the University gets any profit from international students since most of them are European, and we pay no tuition fees at all in Poland.

About the internship in London, she is not paid at all, but the program covers all her living expenses in London (except transport from and to Poland) and vocational training in international Journalism by the BBC. So she doesn't pay (Although she had to pay for her degree because that was a private university). Try to convince the BBC to train you while they cover all your living expenses in London for free if you think it is so easy.

I can assure you that any half-competent HR will know that Poland is not known for the strength of their English-language university programmes. Likewise, any admissions officer dealing with postgrad entries will know that English language programmes in the CEE aren't known for their academic quality. The first question I would ask would be - "why would someone choose to study full time in Poland rather than in their own country?" and the answer is very, very obvious.

Any international company will also probably have an office in Poland, and a simple e-mail to check will soon reveal that the course is worthless.


I think you're rather missing the point that international employers are looking for people that attended credible universities on credible programmes. The vast majority of English language programmes (because they're designed for non-EU students that pay $$$) in Poland are simply not credible. Employers know more or less what is and what isn't credible - it doesn't take a genius to work out that Polish universities are massively underfunded and hence these English language programmes exist solely as a path into the EU for non-EU citizens. Poland is also attractive for them as the financial requirements are ridiculously low.


But the question remains why someone would skip going to a good university in Spain simply to attend a second-rate programme in Poland.


Are you really so naive as to believe that? Polish universities are notorious for telling countless lies to international students.

Actually, I've just found the scholarship in question. And you've been lied to.

asc.uw.edu.pl/programs/general_info/erasmus/other_scholarships/U_Florida_grants.pdf

It's only open to Polish citizens. Sorry. And it's not that comprehensive, it's only a tuition waiver which is hardly anything special.


I've just looked, and the course in question was so unpopular that they actually opened a second round of recruitment. That means that Polish students know that the course is worthless - and it also means that the degree is targeted towards non-EU students for cash. It might be mostly Europeans now, but Poland is only really just getting started with serious international recruitment.


I'm sorry, but I don't think she's telling you the truth. Private university graduates in Poland are notoriously bad, and many big employers have a blanket ban on employing graduates from them. For someone from a private university to get a funded programme at the BBC seems highly unlikely to have happened, although I can understand why she's telling you this (it's far less shameful than admitting that Daddy paid for everything).

Perhaps when you live here a bit longer, you'll start to understand what the difference is between a private university / studies taught in English graduate and someone that graduates from a Polish programme at a public university.

Based upon Delph's reply, it reminds me of comments made recently to me by a high level executive at Or...len according to which Or...len automatically throw away cv's from applicants graduated from certain schools in Poland. It happens in all companies.

When living in Poland, we all know about those Mickey Mouse schools to be avoided like the plague.

Yep, I could name at least three from having taught there that also operate exactly the same policy.

I used to teach at a well known Polish IT company, and one of their HR managers told me that a private university degree disqualifies them immediately. They also frowned on anything funny, such as a purely English language course (except in English Philology) unless it was a very competitive course to enter. There are some Computer Science courses out there in English (Wrocław has one, I think) that are incredibly tough to get into, but the BA in "cultural studies" in English is not one of them.

The OP obviously thinks that one paper is the same as another, but well... :)

Poles just like to complain. If you ask an American how he is doing, the answer is always - fine. If you ask a Pole how he is doing, the answer is always - he barely makes ends meet.

Yes.

Americans sometimes ask each other how much they 'make' (a shocking question in itself for Europeans). The American will then take their gross salary, add any bonuses or overtime or extras and possibly add on a bit just to lie.

Look at some of them here like Dirk who was an entry level telesales guy yet boasted of all sorts, sescribing his parents' home as if it were his own. Some of the others are compulsive boasters too.

A Pole (like most Europeans) would be shocked at the question but if pressed for an answer, would take their net salary and possibly knock some off.

It just wouldn't be seen as polite to bull yourself up, especially in front of strangers. It would be seen as chamski.

Partly because Poles like other Northern Europeans don't like to boast, but yes, there's also a "glass half empty" aspect to the culture.

If we're discussing Poles abroad talking badly, remember that many of those in the U.K. left Poland because they lived in parts of PL where life can be hard.

Things have changed a lot.... in the early 90s people asked each other how much they made and how much that new shirt or watch cost....

I was always being asked about the cost of living and salaries in the US (I heavily edited my answers to make some kind of sense... trying to explain things like 30 year mortgages that can't be paid off early without paying fines in Polish was a... challenge )

It is true that when Americans report income they tend to use pre-tax figures, add any kind of bonus they can and then round up a bit.

Traditionally Poles when asked would use the lowest possible number (basic take home) and still knock some more off....

Also people who leave their country tend to complain about it.... I've done the same lots of times and at present nothing makes me move along faster on the sidewalk or make an early exit from the bus or streetcar quite like an American voice... if an English speaking person seems to be having problems I might offer to help (like a British couple a few months ago trying to figure out which streetcar to take... the names of the stops didn't indicate their destination) but mostly I think... "Nope." and move on.

Common sense.

Usually people make quite a lot "on the side", in the grey zone without bragging about it for obvious reasons (the almighty Urząd Skarbowy and all that). Also, it's better for people not to envy you too much to avoid anonymous letters to the abovementioned US. :)

I'd say that some do but most people don't.


Never seen as polite.


Sadly this does seem to be a thing in PL. hard to know anyone's motivation for doing that.

"Usually"? That's defenitely not the case with people I know.

Same here.

In the PRL many people had side hustles.... that's not so much of a thing anymore....

@Paulina @Lenka

Well, that's probably because you work with honest, upright people - like yourselves - who have nothing to hide from the tax office. Apparently, I move in morally lower circles and judge everyone by these low standards. My apologies. :)

Poles abroad in my experience do love to complain about their country!
Sort of reminds me of the last time I was in Vienna some twenty years ago and merely asked about whether Austria in general had a particular hobby or national pass time such as baseball here in the States, to which someone responded "RAUNZEN", that is, "complaining".