Will Poland ever be multicultural like Sweden, Germany or France?

Demographic shifts determined by economic necessity have obviously always been the contributing force in globalization, much as it was during the years from roughly 1880-1925 in the United States, during which time some several million immigrants/refugees flooded American shores.

While Emma Lazarus' indeed moving words at the base of Lady Liberty reveal part of the story, surely it was the lure of cheap labor which held sway in the wake of the Chinese fiasco!

Let us though not forget the Immigration Act of 1925, hereby prohibiting immigrants from certain countries such as Italy from coming to the US. As a result, fewer children were born and the need some forty years later for "importing" those from Latin America and Southeast Asia to fill the void became ever more urgent.

That void was mainly from the 50 million aborted American kids since the biggest judicial scandal known as Roe. In that sense, Poland is wise to prohibit it. The US is finally wising up and wants to be like Poland in this respect. Good.


BS. When the production moved to China Nike shoes did not get less expensive. That move left a surplus of American workers, not a shortage.

Farming could have been robotized long time ago to eliminate any need for Latinos - legal and illegal. Still missing some? Import the stuff you can't make or let them in - men only - for a season and out. No immigration, no citizenship, no marriages, no anchor babies.

Few things are more repulsive to me than leftist globalist shills whose jobs are secure clamoring for more open borders because "it's good for the economy". Somehow, these scumbags never explain whose economy.

All immigration policies should be decided by the voters through a "democratic" process aka referenda. Nothing is more democratic than a direct vote.

Cheap labor, Rich. Ya want a Mexican or a Norwegian employee if you're the employer?

Norwegian. Check crime rates in Latin America and in Norway and you will almost instantly know why.
"Cheap labor" is cheap only to the employer. The rest of us cover E, M, and P expenses when "cheap labor" brings his wife, kids, and his sickly parents.

As a good Capitalist businessman, still prepared to shell out over fifteen bucks an hr. while your competítor's only payin' ten cents on the dollar for the same job?

@Lyzko

You really need to work on your posts.

I did not know what you were talking about in your last post.

He wants to blow off existential problems that include underemployment, depressed wages, decaying cities, misery, drug addiction, suicides, crime, and god only knows what else - that list is endless - with a cute one-liner. He and others like him never mention the fact that the ruling scum is never adversely affected by their immigration decisions. They just hide in gated communities with armed guards while pulling seven figures.

@Dirk diggler
Ukraine people have been dominating the Uber and Taxi market in Krakow for at least four years. Now, with most of the Ukraine people in Poland being women due to the men not being allowed to leave, many of them will simply integrate over time. It is going to take years to rebuild Ukraine, and many of these women are not going to wait to have a life, or have a better life in Poland to begin with. While some will not want to integrate, the majority will as a matter of not only survival but ease in transitioning.

Today when in Rynek, you hear just as much Ukraine as you do Polish. More and more Ukraine people are taking the lower paying jobs, when before it was near impossible to find help which was driving wages through the roof. Now that has stabilized a little. Shops are full, small business is getting back to normal. They are "cousins" so to speak when it comes to similar heritage, traditions, and foods. Assimilation is not going to be too difficult for most of them. In the end, that increased citizenry will help keep others who are not so welcome from coming to Poland as well.

Like I said, they will never leave, depre$$ wages, change culture, and as a reward, are butt ugly and toothless.

@Milo & Rich, all I've been saying is that multiculturalism aka "globalization" is a direct consequence of the irresistable lure of cheap labor among the world's long industrialized nations,for example, the US, Sweden, and Germany. This is a mutated outgrowth of capitalism, yes even the Nordic variety. What's so bloody difficult to understand, guys?

Nothing.
All I have been saying is that Western "democracy" is the biggest bullsh*it ever and you just confirmed it. You are right, nobody gives a fu*ck what the voters want. Voting is just a little theatre for the stupid sheep. See the Southern border as an example of how this works.

As Sir Winston once remarked (to paraphrase), Western democracy is the most ineffectual form of government on earth, but do we have anything better?

Still haven't answered that one.
I assume you wouldn't prefer a Hitler or a Putin! One Trump was bad enough.

Those who hate democracy so much have rarely spent much time in a modern society where it is absent.

Spot on, jon!!
Kinda like armchair communists or weekend warriors.
They both talk big until it comes time to do something:-)

I left Poland not because it was not democratic. Couldn't give a FF about who ruled Poland. I left because I was not making enough. Period.

In the "democratic" US, I voted only once in 1980. Reagan lied and I never voted again. Voting in Illinois is a waste of gas if you have to drive.

You evidently didn't understand the word modern in that sentence

And say you left somewhere because it was undemocratic yet complain about the democracy in the place you went to.

BTW, your latest Facebook photo looks smiling and jolly.

Keep to the topic please

One more time...I left for the reasons that had NOTHING to do with "democracy" or lack of it. I actually like commies for the way they kept the street of Warsaw safe and foreign scum out.

China has more billionaires than any other country. Are they trying to bring "democracy" to China or planning their next trip to Hawaii?
Are people in the Arab countries on the barricades fighting for "democracy"? What exactly did "democracy" bring to your life?

Those were rhetorical questions so don't bother.


What's modern society? One with electricity and toilets or gay parades? What is your definition?

@Novichok
To benefit from democracy and to complain about it constantly like you do it, is just simply not fair. Try to make a holiday in Belarus or North Korea and than reevaluate your position.

It's just online contrariness, a phenomena that all to often is manifested as a hatred of migration. Basically what people sometimes call internet deindividuation, when old people or suburban housewives suddenly develop vile anonymous personas online after a life of yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir. In his case, his (not anonymous) Facebook profile is full of flowers, kittens and puppies niceness, supporting the Democrat Party, supporting anti-racism initiatives and basically the opposite of what he spews on here.

Sadly, it's in threads like this where people sometimes get nasty, attacking immigrants and other vulnerable groups. It says more about the psychology of those doing it than any real opinion about multicultural v. assimilationist v. monoculture.

Meanwhile, the actual migrants are getting on with life and not making Poland noticeably worse, even thought the increase over the past decade in Warsaw is tangible.

Wow! Is this true? Holy Sh*t. That is incredible. He really must be a disturbed, self hating individual to have two personalities like that. Amazing. He actually posts anti-racist stuff to try and maintain a 'respectable' online persona to his few friends and family (that don't speak to him IRL) and yet here he posts the opposite. Whilst some mass migration of foreign cultures arguments are valid and persuasive in novi's case they are hyperbolic, extremely bigoted and off the wall. I agree it has something to do with his psychology, of a frustrated and unsuccessful life and a deep insecurity and self-hatred. Contrarianism regarding multiculturalism is useful in some cases but only when combined with a deep intelligence (Douglas Murray for example) but that is something that novi obviously lacks.

In Murray's case, he's writing for a specific audience but of course also reflects the very mixed views of those of us who are witnessing different waves of migration and wonder if the laissez-faire approach of some governments is appropriate or not in the face of real global changes.

Whether the german Multi-Kulit approach, the French assimilationist approach or the British middle way is appropriate is something that will be discussed for a long time. In Poland, things seem closer to the U.K. however of course Poland has around 40% of its citizens involved directly or indirectly with agriculture and things do move more slowly in the countryside. In the U.K., there are big differences between Liverpool and Lincolnshire, and we see that in Poland too.

The world is changing for better or worse. I hope that in Poland it is done in Poland's way, where tolerance is a long tradition that predates the hysteria of the twentieth century.


Internet Deindividuation. Psychologists spotted this phenomenon pretty well as soon as the internet emerged with usenet etc.

I don't benefit from "democracy".

I benefit from the private property rights that allow private corporations to hire people like me at the prevailing wages that are high enough to be able to support my family and save for my retirement. NOTHING to do with "democracy" since China is the same or better than the US in this respect. You can make money there, buy things, and leave the country. You just can't form a party that is hostile to the communist party. That's it. Chinese billionaires got the memo and they are cool with that.

You, guys, confuse "democracy" with the standard of living, property rights, and general affluence.


Migrants without visas are criminals. Migrants with visas but against the will of the people are a government-sponsored invasion. Such countries are not "democracies" since even the most oppressive regimes have elections but ignore what the voters want. See Western Europe and the US.

"Democracy" is when the voters control what the elected scum is doing. Anything else is tyranny.

Capitalism has NOTHING to do with democracy and even less to do with "freedom", save for the intrinsic freedom of taking advantage of anyone deemed either rightly or wrongly (often the latter) to be less criminally clever than the other person! Those Chinese billionairs or Russian oligarchs are mega-capitalists, Czar Vladimir included, yet "democrats"??!! Don't make me laugh.

That's exactly my point. I benefit from American capitalism, not "democracy".

Not all migrants need visas to work in Poland. And those who do are often granted them.


Quite. Often the opposite even.

It's quite dull to watch or read moaning about migration without people acknowledging the global causes of this, instead just focusing on domestic affairs like non-existent walls.

OK, Mr. Legally Correct. In my post, "visa" stood for legal entry.


Global causes are irrelevant if not with the consent of the voters. If the voters say no to "cheap labor", no cheap labor.
I reject the inevitability of mass migrations. Europe is overrun by black scum because white men are petrified, not because the scum is an asset to anybody. The US is overrun by Latino scum for "cheap labor" and future votes - both hurting the lower 95%.

There is a big difference between capitalism practised in social democratic countries and capitalism practised elsewhere. Janet Daley, the telegraph columnist puts it quite succinctly.

"Ultimately, I think, the West has cracked it: the combination of free market economics and liberal democratic government provides the optimum solution in human social organisation. It promotes almost everything that improves the quality of life and makes progress possible: initiative, self-determination, resourcefulness, talent and individual moral responsibility. The vices that it permits are the price of liberty and we have learned to live with that. Perhaps most important, it relies on reason without which all manner of evil can triumph. In the end, it must be unbeatable as, at least so far, it has been. There may be cause for anxiety but probably not despair. "

@Novichok
I am not the best man to educate you but as you know democratie is a political system and capitalism is an economic system. So at the end of the day you can have 4 possibilities. Capitalism with democratie like EU, US and so on, capitalism without demokratie like China or russia, no demokratie and no capilatism like UDSSR or Poland after WW2 until 1989 and theoreticaly demokratie without capitalism but as I know it doesn't exist on the Eath.

But Rich, how in the long run do YOU benefit from the fruits of unadulterated, pre-New Deal capitalism, if that very thinking can replace you and others like you with un-at best low-skilled, third-world labor at a moment's notice in many cases, and do so with impunity? In the end, you future Trump/de Santis, Tucker Carlson or Scott Walker supporters are just voting against yourselves...as are those reactionary, wrong-headed followers of Trump-style insurrectionism in Europe!

I normally can't abide her stuff, however there's a grain of truth in what she's saying. Capitalism can only work if it is reined in by democratic controls. Otherwise water finds it's own level.


That is a meaningless phrase.


"Novichok" is in real life a staunch Democrat supporter.