I know the exact figure may be difficult to state, but in general, how much money would I need to retire in Poland for two persons (me and my wife)? I speak Polish, my wife is from Asia and doesn't speak Polish. I have Polish citizenship (dual). The following is a list of my and my wife's "needs":
- Close, maybe up to 10km, to a modern town, but not in the city itself. I'd rather live in a house outside of busy life; assume I rent a small house with a garden,
- Healthcare may be needed (mostly emergency, dentists, vision, but who knows what more),
- Food, utilities (heating / AC if available), taxes,
- Car (one is enough) and associated fees,
- Entertainment (reasonable, some restaurant or cinema visits, nothing extraordinary),
- We'd like to have a dog (which may need a paid place to stay while we travel),
- Money for travel both throughout Poland and Europe (on vacation, let's say a couple of 2-3 week vacation trips a year).
We don't like saving and trying to find "deals" on everything (like many Poles do ;) - we value quality life so we'd prefer not to shop at second-hand stores and eat organic food.
I don't want to worry about money (would like to use all our savings to move to Poland), so do you think 12K PLN a month will be comfortable enough to cover absolute all costs? Also, it would be our fixed income so should we worry about inflation (do you predict 12K PLN will be worth much less in 10-20 years and it would still be enough for us to live on)?
12K PLN sounds like pretty good money for two people. My rough estimates would be that the greatest cost is house rent and utilities (electricity and fuel are expensive in Poland). Property taxes are very low, and they are included in rental price. The second biggest cost is travel, but airfare is not that expensive any more. You may also consider travel by bus if your destination is within, let's say, 600KM.
A ball-park figure is that you'd spend less than 8K PLN a month and your life should be comfortable. The difference should definitely cover possible inflation. I'd estimate in 20 years 12K PLN today may be worth about 10K PLN so you and your wife should still be fine.
Of course, assuming that something extraordinary doesn't happen. What I'd worry about most is the introduction of the EURO currency in Poland; it is going to happen, most likely, within a decade. When it happens, everything is going to cost more. Working people may not feel the negatives because their salaries will somewhat increase, but those who live on absolutely-fixed income may struggle a bit. A solution would be to move further East of Poland where prices tend to be lower OR, at worst, move to Ukraine ;) If you rent a house, your options are more flexible than if you owned one. I'd personally avoid big-city areas as costs may increase fastest there.
Thank you for valuable comments. But damn, you got me worried. When Poland adopts EURO then the cost of living may / will increase, that's a sure thing. I'd never afford to retire in Germany, so when the costs get similar it may not be a great option. I haven't looked into when / if EURO is going to be implemented in Poland, but that's not going to be good news to people who want to retire in Poland. Am I correct? Perhaps I'd go for the Philippines or some other "cheap" Asian country.
Anyway I hope I'm overly pessimistic and that the costs are not going to dramatically increase (they would if wages increase though).
An average rent price for a nice furnished house in a typical Polish town (not city) would be about 3000 PLN per month. Add 1000PLN for utilities and electricity, 500PLN for car costs, 1000PLN for entertainment, 1500PLN for good food, 1000PLN for private dentists/vision/doctor. Total comes as I predicted, about 8 PLN per month. That's probably an overaggressive estimate, but to feel comfortable you need to budget for unexpected things. You have enough left for a couple of vacation too.
Anyway I hope I'm overly pessimistic and that the costs are not going to dramatically increase
Costs are already increasing dramatically. Food costs have skyrocketed this year, and electricity prices are about to go up by 50% or even more next year.
By the time you retire, 12k PLN may not be that much at all. You'll also have to consider that you'll have Polish tax liabilities, which are really painful on pensions.
Ah, so is this about 10K PLN per month budget going to work for us? Why do the cost go up so much? I may consider growing my own food, but the effort may not be worthwhile. I just don't want to invest so much effort into moving to Poland to find out that the costs are more than I expected :(
We'd like to retire in less than 2 years... having worked all my life I was hoping that my income (counting that we plan to live for the next 20-25 years max :) will be 10K-12K PLN per month. Now I'm worried about this Euro currency thing; if the prices are going to be like in Germany then it's better that I move to my wife's area (in the Philippines) than to Poland, but we both like Poland so that would be the best option.
If Poland does join the Euro, they'll more than likely do what Slovakia, Estonia and others did - dual pricing before and after for a significant period of time, so prices wouldn't change that much.
However, prices are growing rapidly in Poland regardless. It depends where you want to live, of course, but it's not common for houses to be rented here. Do you have any particular part of Poland in mind?
I thought Poland is sort of stable price-wise and from what I remember there haven't been much differences in prices regardless location. Now I know the Eastern parts may be cheaper, but is it that significant? I'd prefer the South / South-West side of Poland where the weather is warmer. What about Poles working abroad - they think they'll make enough money in England and come back to Poland to live cheaper, but when the prices are increasing there's no need to come back. It's not good for Poland since money won't be spent there. Either way, I'd likely have to visit Poland once again and carefully check prices to make sure it's still affordable to live.
No, not at all. Food costs have risen dramatically in the last year, and hidden taxes have been introduced. It's also worth pointing out that pensions are taxed in Poland, so if you've got a 10-12k PLN pension between two, then you can expect to pay 18% of that in tax.
I'd prefer the South / South-West side of Poland where the weather is warmer.
Not cheap, then. Maybe rather than looking at cities, something like this would be better? olx.pl/oferta/dom-do-wynajecia-w-zgorzelcu-CID3-IDA3v93.html#f79405a814
You've got the advantage of being close to Germany, yet in Poland. That way, you could access German medical care if the treatment in Poland isn't enough, which is quite common for things where there are ridiculously long waiting lists here.
Do you mean that if I have pension in Canada, it would still be taxed AGAIN in Poland?
Yup. You'll get a tax credit for any taxes paid in Canada on the pension, but a good rule of thumb is to assume that you'll pay 18% tax on everything (32% above 170k a year for a married couple).
Focusing on potential bad things about retiring in Poland, I list:
- the weather is not very nice 5 out of 12 months (even during summer the Baltic sea is cold), - too much government / regulations / bureaucracy (EU) in your life, - limited public healthcare (unless you pay yourself for private healthcare but the cost is usually too high for a normal retiree), - high cost of electricity (having an air conditioner in summer is not a viable option), - high cost of gas (traveling by car through Europe is expensive), - projected higher costs of living due to Euro currency adoption, - lack of social and Geo-political stability (not only within Poland but also never-ending threats from Russia).
Other aspects of life are reasonable. Still, pondering with my wife if the Philippines would not be better (from cost of living and warm weather viewpoint).
How about a crime rate which is much lower in Poland? Yes, they mercilessly execute drug dealers in the Philipines but new ones are joining the business every day.
thanked God again for giving me the wisdom to end up in the USA.
If you live long enough, you will witness the ultimate demise of the white race in the USA, peacefully overwhelmed and subjugated within the new Latinised society! How about moving to ethnic clean Poland before your last stand? :):)
If you think the EU invented bureaucracy in Poland you are very wrong ! It is a huge problem but mainly the legacy of the Commies creating jobs for everyone.
Its not the Euro that will be creating price pressure- rather it is caused by higher wages.
Higher wages + inflation = killing combination : ( - I worry that's coming to Poland and while it may be beneficial to young people / job market, for retirees it's not good. Dilemmas, dilemmas....
Yes, but the Philippino disease can be really dangerous, you should be careful. Poles know this affliction and prefer to avoid it. Are hospitals in the Philippines prepared to fight it?
I've heard you have to wait for a year to have one eye affected by cataract fixed and many Poles would travel to Slovakia to have it done privately for low cost. So they pay taxes for "free public healthcare" but they must be patient (pun not intended) to take advantage of that.
No need to have it done privately, the EU provides the right to cross-border healthcare if it can be done quicker elsewhere. A lot of Poles get routine things done in the Czech Republic at the expense of the NFZ as a result.
You'll get a tax credit in Poland for any taxes paid to Canada, but that's it. Double taxation means not being taxed twice, but you still have to pay Poland.
Electricity prices are likely to reach 25 euro cent/ kWh next year.
