Concerns of a Swede who is about to go to Poland for work

@Jon: yes, wine in Poland is very expensive in comparition with what it costs in countries like Italy, Spain, Portugal, Greece, France..... In Italy, one can find decent table wine for 2euros a bootle, in France for close to 4euros.... It is common sense since wine in Poland is imported and there are a lot of taxes. Sorry, but in Poland, there is no way to buy (decent) Italian wine for 8 ZL and (decent) French wine for 16 ZL ;)

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True that foreigners spend much more than Poles do. I personally (only) eat "international" buying lots of imported products instead of just eating potatoes, cucumber, onions, beets and pork like most Poles do and besides food, I buy mostly foreign (for instance hygiene) products and all these cost as much as they do in the west. Check out also prices of clothes and shoes as prices are indicated on labels in various countries! To live like a westerner (what I do), an average Polish salary is not enough.

Going abroad (to Poland or to anywhere else) if we have to tighten our belts does not make any sense. Coming to Poland for 4,000 ZL even clear, which is not even the minimum salary in western European countries is just nonsense and does not help in career development.

A lot of 65-year-olds do regret not having made choices that would enable them to have a more secure retirement. I'm getting close to that age and I'm starting to hear it a lot from my contemporaries, especially the academic crowd.


Couldn't have said it better myself. Warsaw, Kraków and Wrocław can be lots of fun if you have the cash. Not so much if you don't.

@Dominic: everywhere life is better if enough dough, not only in Poland. Since we are supposed to talk about Poland, it's true that in order to enjoy what Warsaw, Krakow and so on can offer, it is necessary to have a lot of money. To go to best restaurants, best shops ..... demands a lot of money, even in Poland ;)

SwedishStudent,

I'm still unclear as to your intentions about learning Polish:-) Surely, you'll be able to find employment without, but with, it'll make ALL the difference, trust me!

In this way, I repeat, Poland is NOT like Sweden.

Incidentally, I'm fluent in Swedish and Polish, but even if I weren't I'd only go to another country without knowing the language purely for vacation purposes!

You don't need a vast amount of money to enjoy what you described once as 'cheap highlife' in Poland, Pigsy; you do need however to avoid a mismatch between what you expect and what you can afford - otherwise it can lead to misery. Cheap restaurants in Polish cities are rarely good, long-distance bus (or TLK) travel isn't for everyone and sharing a flat with strangers can go badly wrong. The OP however is 23 not 53 and is looking perhaps to have enough to live on rather than dine on lobster or use a limo service every day.

@Gość: The point is that, when you are on a limited budget, there isn't all that much difference between Warsaw, Kraków and Wrocław on the one hand, and £ódź, Katowice or Sosnowiec on the other. You can't take advantage of what these cities have to offer that makes them unique.

@Dominic: I agree 100%. If need to tighten one's belt and to count each coin, what's the purpose of accepting a job abroad, especially if no career development? ;)

I know that this is a bit off topic but your impressions are exactly the same that i have!

In My country (Brazil) there is no lack of beautiful woman, but the morals and the conservativeness of the Polish woman just make them WAY FAR SUPERIOR.

It is like an oasis :)

Now answering to your question: No, you will not suffer racism. I lived in 2011 in a poor city in Poland (Lodz) and now i go to Warsaw very month and i never experienced a single bit of racism.

The concern is less about skin color and more about religion, but since you are a catholic, you will not have any problem.

@Ziemowit

The salary i get is from my part time job. I also get student loans, which is approximatly 10000 swedish kr monthly. Så my total income an average month is about 20000 kr net, which is about 9000 PLN. Also, as a student in my university, you dont have time to spend too much money luckily ;).

Your calculations are interesting. When i calculated net income, i got something in the range of 3600 PLN net from 5500 brutto. Did i miscalculate?

Lyzko, i did not intend in leaning polish in any organised form as my stay would Only be for about a year. Maybe one could pick up a couple of phrases here and there :)

9,000 ZL per month for a student in Sweden?????!!!!! The Swedish system for sure is not .... bad ;)

@gosc

Well, not every student gets that. There is a loan which you get and its about 10000 swedish kr, which is about 4000PLN, net. Ever month. I would say thats the Only income for the majority of students here.

I have been blessed with a part time job which pays really good, about 220 swedish kr/hour, which is about 100 PLN. On average, i work about 16-20 hours a week, depending of course on the work rate in school. School comes always first :).

So those 9000 PLN are loans+part time work :)

@
Swedish student, apologies for pressing the point again, but a year's an awfully long time to fiddle around trying to get by in English. OK, you do as you see fit. In your shoes though, I'd be frustrated as could be:-) Maybe a few days in blissful ignorance, after that, I'd go nuts!!

@Swede: this sounds great and trust me, in Poland as a student, you wouldn't have such a deal (without parents behind, impossible to study in Poland). The Swedish system is most certainly among the very best in the world (and that's why so many foreigners choose to live in Sweden), enjoy it and keep it!

@ Swedish student

You real problem, I think, is that you don't know which to choose: continue to live in comfort that Sweden provides or jump into a somewhat deep water in deciding to venture on your Polish adventure. In fact, you want both as your human nature - as in the case of almost everyone else - is opting for the comfort of life while your youth is opting for a challenge - as almost every young person who has been programmed by nature to be tempted to step onto some more or less risky paths. On top of that you feel attracted to Polish women which for a man of 23 years of age may eventually be of important concern for this may lead to finding a suitable partner for the rest of his life which in itself may be a far better investment than any of the best paying jobs together with a brilliant career in an international environment. What do you need your money for if don't have a partner with whom you share your less or more affluent life?

Your perspective is thus completely different than the one of the Uncles Good Advice who gave you their opinions of middle-aged middle-range income men who either came to live in Poland as foreigners in the old good times when teaching English was a lucrative professional activity or as Poles went to the USA and are now very near the retirement age when the financial security is prime concern.

One point in the opinions of the Uncles Good Advice is definitely false: that a foreigner must buy different products than a Pole and that he shouldn't "eat potatoes, cucumber, onions, beets and pork like most Poles do". Of the list, I as a Pole don't eat patatoes, try not to eat pork, but I eat naturally-grown beetroot and cucumber which is healthy food really. Globalization is more than visible in Poland and you can buy whatever you want and more cheaply than in Sweden plus the quality of Polish food is often better than that of Western Europe. When someone says: "I buy mostly foreign (for instance hygiene) products and all these cost as much as they do in the west", I can tell them that there are Rossmann chain stores where you buy hygiene products of good quality. A 10-item pack of very good three-layer German toilet paper costs 10 PLN, but if you feel your arse is far better than that and you want a special toilet paper imported from Australia, don't come to Poland to dwell on an income of 5500 PLN gros.

An important point has been raised by Lyzko. If I were you, I would look at it attentively.


Without attempting to learn Polish, you'll soon find yourself in an environment of expats with a limited access to real life in Poland. Is that what you really want to have?

Thanks as always, Ziemowit!

@
Swedish student, your high-minded aims merely reinforce, to me anyway, your obviously callow youth:-) Not wishing to appear even "more" condescending than I already have undoubtedly, a country truly CANNOT be effectively appreciated without at least a basic working knowledge of her mother tongue. The big question remains, whether you are simply going to work in Poland 'for the experience', to stand out like some sort of curiosity, or to really make a serious contribution to whereever it is you'll be working.

Again, even before I went to Sweden, I made sure my basic language skills were in place. Othewise, I'd have been just one more young, bothersome American lad out for some free Swedish tailLOL

Gość123456, Sweden has long since been a mecca (no pun intended with the present "Islamization" of Stockholm's Old TownLOL) for foreigners, particularly American draft dodgers in the '60's, not merely for her high standard of living, but her (perceived!!) open attitudes towards, among other things, SEX:-)))

Where poor ol' Ingmar Bergman found only uptight Lutheran piety, outsiders saw mostly blue movies, e.g. "I am curious yellow" etc..., as well as those hot, international model-types like Gunnila Knutsson doing Noxema commercials on American TV.....

While the Swedish "system" has many reasons to be touted, Poland's universities ain't nothin' to sneeze at either! Kraków, Warszawa and Lublin have world-renowned faculty (pity I can't think of any at the moment) and Poland too has many research scientists as well.

I've found most Poles more intellectually curious than many Swedes I've met. The latter have grown up since 1945 with such a silver spoon in the mouths, that they don't even notice its tarnish over the past several decades. They had it too comfy for their own good; the Poles on the other hand under Communism, had to prove hardship.

Please keep to the topic.

Ziemowit,

You are summarazing my feelings in a very accurate way! Like every other Young person, i lust for excitment in life. My life thus far has lacked excitment. I grew up in a upper middle Class home. Never worried about money, and have had a relatively straight way through the "system". never been challenged in any great degree. Sure, school can be tough at Times, and work isnt always fun, but i have always had "security". Thats why i am looking for something new. Some might call me spoiled, and maybe i am.

On the other hand, i of course think about my future in a rational way. And pulling of a risky move to go to poland is going against my rational understanding of the situation.

One of The main problems is that the jobb which is offerred will not serve to any kind of personal Development. And the more i think about it, i feel like my life will consist of work>alcohol>Repeat.

And on the women-part. The swedish woman, though beautiful and smart, is not satisfying me. I suspekt thats another faktor which is leading me to want to try a new envoirnment.

Lyzko, no worries :). I am not taking your opinions badly. On the contrary, you have taken your time to provide your take on this, and i see that as a sign of respekt from you.

I am sure you are correct on the language part. And If i would live in an polish envoirnment for a prolonged period of time, i would inevetibly learn the language.

You are also right about the high mindedness. I am naive in a way because i like to think "romanticly":).

....nor atypically for your generation, I can assure you:-)

As a non-Polish speaker though, I'd suggest working, say, at a consulary branch of the Swedish Embassy in Warsaw, whereby you'd be using both your English as well as your Swedish on a daily basis. Here, indeed there might be both little call or necessity for you to speak Polish. For such, there are scores of interpreters eager to perfect THEIR language skills too.

You might also attempt the university route, although without at least a reading knowledge of the language, you could easily find your best efforts stymied!

This is vital, I should think. Going abroad to have a job in which one is not very much interested desn't seem to be a good idea at all. It is only worth it if it pays well above what you can get in your home country, but this is evidently not your case. If you were to get a job that suits you, I would definitely advise you: Don't be afraid to accept it for 5500 PLN gros, but in the circumstances you have revealed I will not.

A challenge must be a sensible one, something - however risky or harsh it might be - that goes in line with other vital aspects of your life.

I hope that through this discussion you have been able to come to the conclusions which will act to your best. Good luck to you!

Because i got such friendly response, i wanted to report back regarding My decision. I called the company earlier this week to inform them that I would not accept the offer.

I feel like this decision would not be compatible with My long term goals, And the response I got in this thread helped Ms to realise it.

I will still visit Poland every year and I'll make sure to look here if I have any concerns: ).

Based on.......


and the responses you got of people who either don't live in Poland or just simply produce nonsense?

If you manage to live on 7000 PLN per month in Sweden, do you think that 5500 PLN in Poland would be too little?

It's a pity that you let a good chance of getting experience abroad in a beautiful country go past by taking the nonsense posts of Lyzko and Gosc into consideration.

If you can live of 7k PLN in Sweden you would have ball on 5.5k PLN in Poland.

My advice to you would be to just quit studying because it does not matter how long you study or what you study if you allow your mind to be made up by the non-educated opinions of some.

@Jolly: "nonsense"????!!!! Believe me such a job in Poland won't be very impressive on a cv ;) and the young Swedish guy has understood it and as to "beautiful" countries, there all plenty of them and with also good money and career development. To move to Poland to make a lousy 7,000 ZL brutto whereas in Western Europe, it is the minium wages does not make sense careerwise ;).

Do you have any experience in a position in which you have to evaluate C.V.'s? Are you saying that a 5500 zlotych job in Poland for a 22 year old is below average (nevermind the abroad experience) ?


To move to Poland for a "lousy" 7000 zlotych was not on the table. It was 5500 zlotych plus the experience money can not buy for a young man. Your nonsense was only about money, not about the fact that his C.V. would be evaluated on his experience abroad plus his education.

You talk like someone who does / produces. That's fine. Don't give advice on what his experience will be worth on his C.V. because that appears to be above your salary grade.

Job opportunities in Poland, I'd imagine, would still be in the area of I.T. Sweden too probably isn't that much different, as is Germany:-)

I also keep up with what's happening on the continent, and it seems that whenever a new start-up grabs the headlines, it's typically an information technology firm!