History /
What do Poles think about Turks? [761]
actually i shouldn't say anything about you call turks lazy, angry or stupid etc.. there can not be something more stupid than generalization of people in a whole nation.
Istanbul(Constantinopol) under Greeks till 1453:The richest city in Europe,1 million population,a lot of monuments,science,arts,some of the best philosophers,mathematicians of the time.
Istanbul after 1453 till today under Turks:The poorest capital in Europe,no science,no progress at all.
there are still many monuments in istanbul. both from byzantium and ottomans. you know nothing and talk. come and see. istanbul is not capital of turkey, and not the poorest place of europe. its economical volume is greater than whole greece.
and how do you think turks got istanbul from byzantium? was it easy? could undeveloped primitive barbarians do that? surely no, they came with very scientific guns of that time. they had a cannon called "great turkish bombard" which needs 200 men to operate. and after we got istanbul we didn't destroy any religional or cultural thing there. even respected to orthodox people and gave guarantee that they can live their religion as they wish.
at that time ottomans were very rich too, they were always winning the wars so gaining spoils, taking taxes etc.. and after they got istanbul, istanbul got richer too. they opened new science schools, built palaces etc.. they set up an empire from north africa to vienna. don't you think it needs some development, management culture or good economy? they were the super power of their times. of course they were developed, of course they were rich. and istanbul was the most scientific, richest, cleanest city with ottomans too.
but obviously not forever. their development stoped after 17th century. they couldn't keep step with geographic expeditions, industrial revolution, colonialism etc.. they slowed down like every state did in history. actually ottoman empire had to be destroyed much before than it did. that would be better for everybody. it lived too much as a sick state. we turks, greeks or other nations under ottoman rule are mistaken about it. we had to revolt against ottomans much before. it was totally completed its life time and became a tumour to the people of this region later.
Greece before turkish occupation in 15th century:A rigorous place with lots of monuments,economical development.
yeah you were invented electricty and almost sending a rocket to the moon but we came and ruined everything. ok could be a glorious place much before than turks came to anatolia. when we came, your byzantium was having its last times, very bad economy, heavy taxes from feudal lords. that's why it was easy for turks to collect greek cities. local people didn't complain much about turks. the truth is you were not much developed when we came. you couldn't develop with ottomans either. cause after 17th century ottomans development counted back, made everything they did well to the worse.
Greece under tusrkish occupation:Backwards,primitive place,no development,no Renassaince,no industrial revolution.
true true true. biggest mistake of ottoman empire. as i say they had to be destroyed when they got weak. they used religion as a car brake on development of our region.
Greece free from turkish occupation between 1912-now:GDP increase to 28000$ per capita close to Italy(32000),Spain.
don't say before after turkish occupation. say before eu - after eu. without support of eu you would see this value only in your dreams and wouldn't be much different than us. our handicap is being such a lonely nation.
Under Ottomans:Business,commerce run by Greeks and Jews.Turks sleep and collect the taxes with the help of Albanians.
true, you are right about it. and ottomans gave economical privilege to french which also ruined the economy. all importation, no production.
kill 500000 Armenians between 1914-1922
before world war I ottomans had 21 million population. in the war 800 000 soldiers and 4 200 000 civilians dead including armenians. many turks killed by armenians too. turks never did a systemical genocide to armenians as nazis. it was a war with mutual deads. maybe more turks dead than armenians there. but noone remembers this and say turks are cruels. noone cries for us. the countries provocating and giving guns to armenians against turks and rising deads are now angels and only turks are devils?
force out 1.5 million Greeks in 1922 and kill a lot
force out 250000 Greeks from Istanbul in 1954
also tell how many turks forced and killed by greece? be at least a little objective.
invade Cyprus and force out 250000 Greek Cypriots in 1974
you know there was an organization in cyprus called "eoka". which is probably set up by people like you, who don't want to see alive turkish or english around island. they started to kill people in turkish villages and forced turkish minority to out of cyprus with various of tortures. and so turkey didn't watch this as a theatre and answered. we couldn't take support of international arena, and now we are invaders, greeks are innocents. but the fact is turks agreed kofi annan's peace plan and greeks didn't. cause only peace for people like you is non-existence of turks in the island.
have killed and forced out dozens of thousands of Kurds in the last 25 years
killing kurds? turkey is country of kurds and turks. and many other nations inside. we are brother people. if you ask kurds they will be going to say the same thing. already many of them live in istanbul, ankara, izmir. they don't want to leave from turkey. but the problem is pkk terror. kidnapping kids from families and sending them war against turkey. increasing their wealth coming from heroin money they sell to europe. they just want to control this route better for their dirty commerce, they don't want a free kurdistan either. even a great part of kurds hate pkk too. they kill teachers, students, doctors etc in villages. so that people escape and they can control there better. and after this all people say "turkey killed 30 000 kurds". turkey just kills pkk militants. damn pkk is the one killing kurds. you can't guess how much turks and kurds suffered from this. think about families of dead soldiers. and think about how much money turkey spent to stop it. there could be schools, hospitals, universities or many other things done to kurdish provinces with that money. are you that maniac to think we are psychopaths and killing kurds with that money? yes seems you are.
by the way i have nothing against greeks. history is the past. i even support their teams against other countries' or get pleased when they become succesful in international area. cause they are in our region and neighbours. but i just don't like greeks with turkish complex like you. or other people insult or blame my nation unfairly. greeks, serbs and germans could be nationalist people, but it doesn't need to being peasants who hate or insult other nations all the time.
