Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]

Just make the curry mild or keep a couple of cans of coconut milk handy and make a spicy batch for yourself and a mild batch for your Polish guests by adding the coconut milk.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]


Ha, ha, ha!! Good one Johnny.

Genealogy / What are common Polish character traits? [425]


Read this:
independent.ie/entertainment/books/the-fai-blazer-who-bought-a-polish-girl-for-a-bottle-of-scotch-29633275.html
Eamon Dunphy was a top Irish soccer player and is a household name as a sports broadcaster in Ireland, not very well liked as he's extremely forthright but he is generally honest.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]



Now, boys, I started this thread and before doing so I said this:


No lectures or scolding at Christmas. Peace and goodwill towards each other now ok?

Johnny you were absent dear so probably weren't aware of the rule so you're forgiven but you know now...

If anyone wants to discuss other aspects of Christmas they can do so elsewhere but not here in the 'Christmassy thread'. This is a place of happiness, warmth and a bit of nostalgia. Joy to the world!

Genealogy / What are common Polish character traits? [425]

Paulina I sense you're seeking a sparring partner and I really don't have the time or inclination for that. However I'll do you the courtesy of a brief response.


As far as I'm concerned I already addressed that.


You mentioned that your friends were in the UK but you spoke of what you term 'Western' men or 'Westerners'.


I get your point. Let's just say that like so many women I've done a lot of work on him to bring him up to scratch - but the raw material was there to begin with!


Warsaw, Wrocław, a few places.


Some are. I was never approached that way in Ireland but I was, more than once in Poland.


Well it's true. I remember once I was waiting to cross the road in central Warsaw and there was a guy, well over sixty I'd say, standing beside me and quite blatantly inspecting me. Now it had happened so often in the past I'd just had enough so I turned to him and said in English, 'that's right have a good old gawp, God Almighty' or something along those lines.


You use that word a lot and it's meaningless. There is no such thing, any more than there is an Easterner. People from Western Europe are of different nationalities and cultures. Are you an Easterner Paulina? or a Centraler???


Italy, Spain et al are politically less democratic and economically less stable. Would you really say that Italy was in the same category as Sweden for example? A lot of talk about East and West here but Northern and Southern Europe are two very different kettles of fish.


Use your common sense.


Of course I can understand that.


Absolutely but the country under discussion was Poland.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]


They were fairly mild comments Polly, observations made in a conversational way, not with any intention of being snide or derogatory. If you let them drift past like a gentle breeze, they will just float away. Don't whip them up into a storm. Come on now....


Harry, you old sweetie. I couldn't dream of helping myself to your Christmas treats! It's just the appearance of the crackers I like more than anything. The contents are ridiculous aren't they? It's just childhood memories, rattling them all and trying to guess what might be in them, the almighty pull and the joy or disappointment when the snap ignited or failed to ignite!

Language / "Poles" or "Polish people" - which is better to use? [200]

Well this guy calls himself a Pole (as indeed you do yourself Mr Troll who calls himself AdamPole even though the term Pole is 'disrespectful'):

mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/im-pole-pole-meet-britains-5283112

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]

Now to get things back on track here's a link to some Polish Christmas carols accompanied by some nice images of Christmas in Poland:

Does Poland have an equivalent of the Festival of Nine Lessons and Carols from Kings College, Cambridge? I'd love to hear it if there is.

Genealogy / What are common Polish character traits? [425]


Yes, you're right.


Well I'm not making it up.


My husband would say so!


Anymore? They never were.By the way note the significance of the air bunnies. No, there's no such thing as the West. It's an invention.


And there we go again.


Paulina, I have absolutely no interest in all this East West North South lark, that's your thing. My true interests are butterflies, rainbows, flowers, kittens and embroidery.

Now the day is wearing on and I must go and do something fabulous darling.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]

Or if only Chopin had written something for Christmas.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]

Polly, it doesn't have to be one or the other.

When I was a child we understood quite well that we were celebrating the birth of Jesus and we went to church on Christmas morning but Santa brought our presents. In pre-Santa days in Ireland, during my mother's childhood the presents were brought by Father Christmas or Daddy Christmas as very young children called him. The term was still used by my grandparents when I was a child. Father Christmas is quite probably derived from an old Pagan tradition. Christianity has very neatly absorbed many Pagan customs (such as decorating with greenery and lights at the mid-winter) and combined them into Christian festivals. Ireland is a great example of that. It's normal, it's natural, it's fascinating and quite beautiful.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]


You old charmer, trying to entice me into the city centre with the promise of sweetly scented dainties! I'm afraid with sweeping, scrubbing, window washing, tree buying, decorating, baking, (and praying of course) I won't be going far from home over the next few days, but all jokes aside, thank you very much for the kind gesture.

Baylis and Harding - how terribly English and upper crust. Interesting, they're so elegant. Sophisticated Poles (have you seen that awful Westwing website, such pretentious stuff) will never know the joy of those hideously gaudy, tacky crackers of my own childhood with the inferior paper hats. My mother always shook her head sorrowfully over those and recalled the amazing concoctions of her own childhood when paper hats really were party hats, beautifully decorated, remnants of Victoriana really. I used to collect up all the discarded paper hats and store them in what I called my 'treasure box' and then have a wonderful time snipping them up and making collages.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]


Not really. but the one is derived partly from the other. Father Christmas was the gift bringer of English folklore, he has white hair and a beard, wears a crown of holly and long fur trimmed robes, sometimes blue or even green, sometimes red. You'll see him on Victorian Christmas cards. Santa is an American invention loosely based on St Nicholas the gift bringer of many European traditions and he sort of got combined I suppose by the immigrants into a mixture of the two. The Santa image with the red suit etc which we know and some of us love is the Coca Cola Santa designed back in the 1930s for an advertising campaign.


Look Smurf, the Catholic church was quite clever. Saturnalia, Calends, Yule, all that was a time of merry making and as a relatively new religion they weren't going to take the chance of telling people they couldn't have a party. So simply make it a church festival and combine the two. No big deal really.

By the way you were asking about Christmas pudding. No, not Irish, another legacy of our colonial days, but sure at this stage we've made it our own, especially with the Guinness! (or the Jamesons, or Hennesseys)


Smurf, I can see I'll have to do the Irish mammy on you here - would Mammy allow that talk in the house at Christmas if she'd already put a 'rule' in place? You might have missed it, but we agreed no barbed comments and sly digs. Come on let's see if we can stick to that?

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]


Smurf, ah sure you're a lovely lad altogether. I knew you wouldn't let me down!

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]


And in Scotland, the first visitor over the threshold after midnight on New Year's Eve was ideally a tall, dark haired man, as this was said to bring good luck for the year! He was known as the First Foot. In some regions the female was also considered bad luck.


Poor child! Diabolically clever way of keeping the little ones quiet during a busy day for the adults of the house.


And we're observing that tradition on this thread, very good.


Yes, I think that prevails somewhat even today.


Interesting, a Pagan custom which survived I would say as fortune telling was very much against the Christian tradition.


Yes I believe that belief exists in other parts of Europe too.

Thank you Polly, all very interesting and here's my contribution. I found this on YouTube. It's from the Śląsk region. It's a bit 'staged' but it's nice:

youtube.com/watch?v=7LBX5iw_m6Y


Yes, yes, that's right. In the poem 'Twas The Night Before Christmas', (proper title A Visit From St Nicholas) Santa is a tiny elfin figure, which is why he can come down the chimney so easily. That was written sometime in the 1820s. He was an almost exact contemporary of Irving. I mean the author of the poem, Clement Clarke Moore, not Santa!

Genealogy / What are common Polish character traits? [425]


I never suggested that they were. They're just handy labels that people the world over use.


Well firstly they're tacky, secondly they're mildly hideous, and thirdly - unlike the other delights I mentioned, they don't actually exist!

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]


No problems there when I was a child. My father and his parents cordially detested each other and they were notoriously inhospitable to boot so there was never any question of having to go there. That's very rare for an Irish family but I blame their Cromwellian origins for that though my paternal granny was very fond of her gin and tonic.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]


Yes, they do that in Ireland too, being so small and with so much coastline you hear that even in the suburbs of Dublin; I miss that, you don't hear it in Warsaw.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]


I think Polly that we're all a combination of nature and nurture but I think that in the end it's the genes that are the deciding factor. What I find fascinating is the differences between siblings raised in the same home environment and yet often so different to each other and that's why I think genetics are the decider. Siblings have the same gene pool but a different mix of those genes to each other so despite being raised in the same home by the same parents, they can be quite different to each other in character, interests etc. You know how even in appearance some children take after the father's side and some the mother's. Off-topic response to off-topic comment but hey, it's Christmas! Thank you Moderators.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]


POLISH AND IRISH CHRISTMAS

An Irish Christmas is all about socialising. There are huge extended family gatherings and visiting of neighbours and friends. For years the returning emigrants home for the festive season lent a very special flavour to the season. Of course it's still the case that people returning for Christmas is a big thing but I think less so than in the 1980s for example when so many of the young had gone to England, Australia, USA, Canada etc. There were fewer cheap flights and they didn't make it home that often, it was a big deal coming 'home' for Christmas.

To me the Polish Christmas feels slightly sombre and sober compared to the Irish which is very high spirited, merry and filled with laughter and smiles, even in settings where there's no alcohol! The religious aspect is still important to many. Midnight mass is very well attended and again, the atmosphere there is generally a happy, joyous one with lots of beautiful carols, the singing is very important. That's another aspect of Irish Christmas, the music. Lots of talking, lots of laughter and the sound of music, that's an Irish Christmas to me!

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]


Well the Irish are fond of a drink of course but as I said:


Irish people are generally cheerful. After all I spent many Christmases in primary schools where there wasn't a drop of alcohol to be seen and we had crack in the staffroom!

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]


Husband says there was no drinking in his house before midnight but that at the stroke, the men were at the vodka bottle and it pretty much continued for the next 48 hours!

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]




And we're back! You're all at it again, not that you ever really stopped of course. You're like a little family of Jack Russells.


I was speaking figuratively, in that once midnight had passed, they would certainly have a drink,
but they weren't an especially religious family. When the children were young they were definitely taken to mass by their mother but I think once they'd all made their confirmation the parents considered they'd done their duty. There were definitely no gospel readings before Wigilia supper. I must check with him but I think that the men of the family didn't really bother about Midnight Mass but the women went.


I would say that it's common for Polish people to offer their Christmas guests/visitors a libation (lovely old fashioned word isn't it?). If I were visiting someone on the 25th I would expect to see the old glass of dessert wine being offered to the 'ladies' and a drop of the hard stuff or a bottle of beer for the men. The fact that alcohol is consumed as part of the festivities doesn't mean that people are alcoholics, though of course most extended families in Poland or Ireland have at least one bona fide alcoholic.

Anyway we won't argue about it. Let us put aside our wrangling and quarrelsome ways in deference to the season- ooh, I've come over all Victorian. Pickwick Papers, A Christmas Carol, God Bless Charles Dickens and all things Christmassy - God Bless us all, every one.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]


Yes, for me as an Irish person, it reminds me of Good Friday, to tell you the truth! No red meat, no alcohol. In Ireland no alcohol is sold on Good Friday and I remember once the local branch of Tesco had to close because although they weren't selling alcohol, the off-licence section wasn't considered to be suitably separated from the rest of the produce. I remember the Gardai outside and the general to-do and hoo ha. It's very rare to see a Garda making a fuss about anything in Ireland, it's always 'that wouldn't be anything to do with us, that's a civil matter'. Anyway they managed to block off the area with some kind of make-shift shutters or something and were open again within a couple of hours. In a truly hilarious and typically Irish fashion hotels are allowed to serve alcohol on Good Friday 'as part of a substantial meal'.


And here's a lovely video from Dublin Airport that will warm the cockles of even the hardest heart. At one point of there's a pair of really adorable little tots, I'd say they're about three years old, welcoming each other home and somewhere in the middle is a host of 'wholesome' Irish schoolgirls to delight Polly, carol singing in their lovely navy blue school uniforms:

youtube.com/watch?v=gyB8UMfVoWk



I really have to go and do something useful now, after nine o'clock and not a child in the house washed as we say in my part of the world.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]

Aw, I'm so glad someone watched it, I thought it would be dismissed as nausea inducing sentimentality.

Now if we're in the mood for some music, here's the absolutely perfect song for Wigilia. I've not heard it sung in Poland but if it isn't it should be.

What would an Irish Christmas be without 'Oh Holy Night', the staple of every school and church concert and many a staff room sing-song in my teaching years. In every Irish school there seems to be an older teacher with a beautiful soprano voice to start it off. There may be younger teachers with an equally lovely voice, but Oh Holy Night is a badge of honour and always goes to the most senior staff! (I bet they have to advertise every few years, Junior Infant teacher required, ability to sing solo in Oh Holy Night a distinct advantage, must complete minimum ten years service before doing so'.)

Anyway it may an Irish favourite but nobody sings carols like the English. My mother once paid me the great compliment of informing me that I sang hymns with 'the true Protestant hoot'! And here it is from King's College Cambridge, Christmas Eve service of the Nine Lessons and Carols, it's a really beautiful arrangement so if anyone here is musical you'll love this:

youtube.com/watch?v=rYyhLkQV6no

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]

It's about a hundred years older than that Polly, written around the mid 1800s. I imagine it was the recording industry that popularised it. It was recorded by the famous tenor Caruso sometime before 1920 which may account for its long standing popularity in Ireland as the Irish loved a good tenor and he was hugely popular with my grandfather's generation.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]


Yes my dear husband performed the honours this year. He's a very efficient carp killer and I warned him beforehand about the terrible consequences if he damaged any of my precious bathroom fixtures!


No. Bringing home the live carp and keeping it for several days in the bath tub of cold water has been common practice for a long time.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]

I've hardly had time to scratch myself today but must take a moment to wish you all a happy, healthy and peaceful Christmas. Love to everyone.

Life / All Things Christmassy in Poland [332]



Ireland saves the day again Polly! Christmas ends officially on 6 January. Decorations come down then. It's said to be bad luck to leave them up after that. It's known as Little Christmas and also Women's Christmas especially in Cork and Kerry where the men take on the housework for the day and the women often meet for an outing or lunch party. When I was a child the Three Kings did not go into the crib until 6 January as they supposedly did not arrive in Bethlehem until then. It was very annoying to a child, as they were beautiful figures so my lovely mother used to line them up on the table near the crib to show them making their journey........I was a lucky child.

Food / British food products in Poland? [334]

Bird's custard powder, Bisto, Colman's mustard immediately spring to mind. My local supermarket in Warsaw stocks HP Sauce but I'm not a fan of that. They also have Lea & Perrins Worcester Sauce which I like. They're in the International food section. The Worcester sauce is in the Japanese section!! Do you have a Carrefour in Wrocław? My husband is Polish but he loves Colman's and Bovril which we also can't get here. I also miss being able to pick up a tin of Golden Syrup and a decent sized drum of baking powder; the tiny packets here with about two spoons of baking powder drive me nuts.