Love / How is the engagement / courtship tradition in Poland? [3]

Poland is definitely more conservative and traditional than most of the West, but generally it's not as conservative as what you describe.

But at this stage of the game, you it only matters what HE is like, not what general trends are. He seems nice and courteous, so I would think he would be more respectful and traditional when it comes to dating and courtship.

In any case, it really is best to take the person as an individual, rather than trying to figure out what the country as a whole tends to be. Everyone is different. Some guys are more aggressive and less respectful and traditional, and some are more. He seems like the latter. What is his family like? How religious is he? What are some of his interests and views? What are his manners like? Etc.

Love / It seems everyone is so isolated here in Warsaw [11]


He wants free/cheap/low effort.

To the OP:

Yes, Poland is that land with those mysterious, incomprehensible creatures called "females" that just wander aimlessly around town, mewling coyly at horny men who don't have the personality, social skills, or money to get a woman to actually like them as a person and want to date them.

Sorry buddy, Roosh V lied to you.

Life / Why are Polish people such hypocrites about immigration? [36]


Again, just avoid them. Trust me, you'll be much happier when you don't force yourself to interact with people whom you hate.

Also... I wasn't aware they were moving to India en masse! But either way, my advice stands.

Life / Why are Polish people such hypocrites about immigration? [36]

Priya, in the interest of improving your personal sanity and quality of life, I suggest you refrain from going to Poland or interacting with Poles. That way, your life will be free from their terrible ways and you will be much happier. Once you have accomplished that, it truly is best to let things go and move on with one's life.

UK, Ireland / Where to find friendly Polish people in London? [16]

zetigrek, yes, there is quite a bit of variation in Caucasian race, hence differences in GENERAL phenotypes of people from various European countries. A red-headed, blue-eyed, freckled Scot looks very different from a dark-haired, dark-eyed, and olive-complexioned Italian. Let's not be obtuse and act like Europeans are one big indistinguishable homogeneous blob.

Food / Perfect Pierogi? (keen to perfect the recipe) [12]

Thank you! :)

Food / Perfect Pierogi? (keen to perfect the recipe) [12]

Merged: Mushroom & cabbage pierogi Polish recipe

Does anyone have a recipe for authentic mushroom & cabbage pierogi? Thanks.

Genealogy / Do I look Polish? (my picture) [375]


Yeah you could pass for Polish. You do seem to have that blonde hair/blue eyes Slavic look.

USA, Canada / Is there any chance that I can go right now to the US and start a life over there? [19]

You should try to apply as a foreign student to college in the US. That way, you can still experience living in the US without completely turning your life around, and if you decide you don't like day-to-day life in the US, you can go back to Poland without really losing much or wasting time.

It's harder for foreign students to get into US colleges than it is for US students, but if you do your research regarding what colleges you have the best chance with, are able to pay tuition and living expenses, and have the right grades, test scores, letters of intent etc etc etc, you may have a chance. I'd reach out to your family and friends in the US to help you with that, as well as the Polish Consulate in the US and any Polish organizations (particularly student/academic) in the US to help guide you.

Language / Polish dative case: Why do you use "mu" in this sentence instead of "go" [9]

I think so, yes. It is the dative case, and so the indirect object. I'm not a Polish linguist, I just am fluent in the language, so keep in mind that I wouldn't be able to tell you everything in necessarily in all the proper grammatical terms.

the "go" in "I don't like him..." is the object.

The way I see it from a non-grammatically-based view is that "mu" does not necessarily require the person to relate back, while "go" is either a pronoun or DOES imply that he will relate back. This probably very confusing so I'll give examples.

Daj mu ---- give him
Pokaz mu ---- show him
Zatancz mu ---- dance for him
Powiedz mu ---- tell him

Wiezmyj go ----- take him
Zapytaj go ----- ask him
Zaczep go ----- stop him (as in on the street)/ get his attention
Zachecz go ----- interest him/encourage him

As you can see, the "mu" involves something being done to "him," and this action can be completed without any reaction from "him." It is the indirect object in the sentence.

in the "go" examples, "he" MUST react to the action in order for the action to be completed. I.e. If he does not show attention, you haven't gotten his attention. If he is not encouraged, you haven't encouraged him. Even in the "ask him" example, whether or not he responds to you is not relevant, because in order for you to successful ask him, he must reaction to question - whether or not he ultimately makes the decision to A) ignore you* B) tell you he doesn't know or C) answer your question. (*He can't ignore you if he hasn't first heard your question and then made the conscious decision to ignore you).

In these examples, the "go" is the object in the sentence.

I dont know if any of this made sense, hope it did help some!

Language / Polish dative case: Why do you use "mu" in this sentence instead of "go" [9]

"Mu" refers to something being done to him. "Go" is more of a pronoun.

Powiedz mu że nie może tak mówić. --- Tell him that he can't talk that way.

Nie lubę go, bo nie lubę jak on mówi. --- I don't like him because I don't like the way he talks.

Language / Zmarła czy zdechła? What is proper to say in Polish in a case of an animal death? [12]

Let the poor badger have some dignity, if not in life, then at least in death!

Language / Polish word 'musisz' = need in English? What about 'potrzebujesz'? [11]

It depends on the context, and the two words ARE similar with subtle differences, but generally I think of "musisz" as you need to DO something like in "You need to fix your car." and "potrezebujesz" as you need something like in "You need a car." You COULD use "musisz" in the "you need a car" sense, but you can't use "potrzebujesz" in the "you to need to fix your car" sense.

Food / What Polish foods and brands do you miss when you go to other countries? [216]

the chocolate with the orange gel... don't know the specific name. It seems like the brand could Wedel. There are things called Ptiase Mleczka ("Bird's Milk"), but that's more like a marshmallowy filling covered in chocolate. They also make cookies that are similar to lady fingers with a fruit-flavored gel and covered in chocolate called Delicje.

The gingerbread with fruit filling and chocolate is called piernicki (plural diminutive of piernik, which basically means gingerbread). Don't know about the biscuits.

Kabanosy are thin smoked/jerk sausages.

Polish spices... dill? Koperek in Polish.

UK, Ireland / Single Polish women in Northampton? [5]

Probably those that overwhelmingly Catholic countries tend to have, seeing as both Poland and Italy are majority Catholic.

Genealogy / Why Polish aren't white?? [272]

Americans who think "white" only refers to "white Americans" are generally a couple tacos short of a combination plate. "White" refers to "caucasian," which.... surprise, surprise... comes from Europe. If you're a caucasian European, you're white. Probably whiter than many "white" Americans, since even many white Americans do have small percentages of African ancestry (particularly in the South). This demographic is also the most likely to be racist against African Americans. Oh, the irony.

Unfortunately, critical thinking and the ability to make connections has been a dying art in the US public school system, so I suppose it's no surprise that some Americans fail to make a connection between "caucasian Europeans born in Europe who THEN moved to the US" and "white Americans."

Although, I will say, that the WASP (White American Southern Protestant) is a cultural concept, and since it includes a race identifier, it may be the source of some of the confusion for some Americans.

Love / My Pole bf is flirting with an old friend from high school [12]


Nothing better is going to come along if you still allow "the old" (i.e. him) to be in your life. The whole thing seems a bit odd. It seems like you guys maybe have been having issues if you reacted so strongly to this conversation between the two of them. In my opinion, his texting with his HS friend is a bit odd and too flirty for my tastes, so I'd have to wonder about his character to begin with. It just doesn't seem like you and this guy are truly on the same page regarding your commitment to each other. But if you want something better, I think you have to rip off the bandaid at once, instead of letting it linger and fester and hoping it will fall off on its own and that the new guy won't notice or won't mind your current messy love life. I know it feels kind of scary because you feel like being in a "meh" relationship is better than being alone, but in my experience it's better to make a clean break of it.

Life / Cosmetic surgery in Poland... [40]

Yeah, that's a little bizarre. I'm sure you can pay in zloty - it would be beyond bizarre and illegal if you couldn't. THAT would be discrimination, because they'd be discriminating against the person him or herself. I can see how *technically* they could get away with charging a slightly higher price in a different currency because you're paying extra for the exchange rate fee and they could technically tack on a "administrative/service/convenience fee for handling different currency." That's what I'd think; I could be wrong though. Just say you'll pay in zloty.

But do keep in mind that those prices are usually estimates (at least in the US), since variables such as how much anesthesia they end up giving you, or how long the surgery *actually* lasts may vary from person to person.

Is there a European Plastic Surgery Association, or something like that you can check around with? I wish you luck and hope you figure it out and get a fair price!!

Life / Cosmetic surgery in Poland... [40]

Without seeing the examples you mentioned, it's hard to tell what is the reason for the price discrepancy.

However, the higher prices could reflect things like airport pick-up, food and board, etc. since foreign patients are less likely to have the option of a family member or friend picking them up after surgery and resting at home. Keep in mind that the doctor usually needs to see you at about a week after surgery to make sure everything is healing well. Also, you're not supposed to drive or fly or really do much of anything besides lay in bed at least for a few days after your procedure, and DEFINITELY not the day of, since you'd still be on medication. You'd have to stay somewhere during that time. Clinics that cater to an international clientele usually have facilities where you stay for those few days after your procedure, and that of course costs extra.

Life / Are Poles mentally more Eastern European or Western European? [171]


I understand that. That's my point exactly! There is a difference in competition and it being a wannabe. Several years ago, in Warsaw, in a POLISH newspaper, I read an article about some museum that they were planning on building in Warsaw. One of the people involved in this museum was quoted as saying that it would be "like the Polish Louvre!" Now, if he had said something like "It will be bigger than the Louvre and hold twice as much art!" I would have been like:



. Why? Because that's a healthy sense of competition and it denotes the attitude: "I am capable and good enough to build something that improves upon something else that has already been built" instead of..."Oh, well, maybe if I build an imitation of something that already exists, I'll be good enough."

Over history, different kings and rulers and nations have tried to compete with each other and outdo each other and to prove how wonderful they were through their achievements. And these are the things that are remembered and admired. But if even if you DO have something that is admirable, but you act like it's crap, or that it's almost as a good as something else, NO ONE WILL ADMIRE IT. You have to believe in yourself and respect yourself before others believe in you or respect you. The United States today is (still) the most powerful country and arguably the wealthiest country in the world. The US has made GREAT achievements. Today, it is reviled and loved/admired for its greatness. But it didn't start out that way! It started out with a handful of unhappy immigrants from Europe. Less than 300 years ago, it was still an unsophisticated colony of Britain, that geographically spanned only the eastern coast of North America! Think about that. 300 years ago, Poland was much bigger than it is now and was the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, with centuries of history under her belt. How did those colonists, who walked along muddy streets and lived mostly in wooden houses, while most of Europe (including Poland) studied in centuries-old stone universities, come to be the most powerful nation on earth? It certainly was NOT because they "looked up" to and compared themselves to anyone else. If anything, the US built things to compete with other nations. "Manifest Destiny" was ideal for a long time under which American society operated. It meant that they believed they were meant to do great things and they deserved great things. And then they went out and did them. Now, whether or not this "Manifest Destiny" was ethical is another question. A lot of Native American tribes suffered greatly. However, my point is that the US did not get to where it is today from the starved and measles-ridden pilgrims on the Mayflower by kow-towing to everyone else and hoping someone would think they're cool enough.

I'm not saying Poland should just give the West the finger, or anything like that. I'm just saying chill out with the West-worship, and start taking pride in some of Poland's achievements. You MUST take pride in your own work in order to be successful at anything. This is true for individuals, and for societies. Poland should just focus on being the best it can be rather than looking at its neighbor and trying to measure up, is all I'm saying! ;)


Someone earlier in this thread wrote this:


That is NOT how the comparisons I am referring to are made. We're straying from the original intent here. :) And my point remains: if Krakow is considered an artistic city in Poland, why the need to compare it to some other artistic city? After all, if it is already known, in Poland, as an artistic city... it already has that definition. So comparing it to Paris in order to illustrate how artistic it is, when it's already considered to be artistic, is redundant.


Yes, but I didn't say "Texas is like the American Poland!" Instead, I said that both places have similar characteristics that I like. The would more like saying "Krakow has a lot of art. You can see artists selling their creations on the street. Paris is like that too. I think that's why I like both cities."


I think JollyRomek's point was that if it's Poles in Poland comparing their cities to foreign cities, then it can't very well be a "point of reference" because these comparisons are made among Poles, rather than to foreigners. Which is my point, as well. And because I AM Polish, it actually bothers me because it sounds like something isn't good enough unless it's the Polish version of some "Western" counterpart.

I mean, I do not live in Poland, so I maybe I don't have a right to try to get Poles to stop comparing themselves to "The West," if it makes them feel better. But this is just how it appears to me, as an "outsider" in Poland. And this is just my emotional reaction, as a person of Polish blood who feels a connection to and pride for Poland.


Yes...


First, I am not talking like "Slavic Europe" is some sort of separate continent. I never even remotely implied it. Of course there are nice landscapes everywhere! But that does not negate the fact that different regions of the world have different landscapes that I, personally, am more drawn to some than to others. This isn't right or wrong; it's simply my preference. As I said, I "associate" Poland and Eastern Europe with this landscape, along with several other things. I was speaking of my personal feelings I had regarding a particular term. Just like you may "associate" a certain love song with your first kiss, or associate a certain color with a certain emotion. Let's not get pedantic. I'm not trying to insult you!


Yes, of course. Poland always has and is a part of Europe. And I think more and more these days with globalization the ideas of western and eastern europe are falling the wayside. It's just Europe. BUT if one is going to make those distinctions, then one can start splitting hairs. The US is the US, even though Georgia is "The South" and Pennsylvania is "The North."

Life / Are Poles mentally more Eastern European or Western European? [171]


Paulina, respectfully, in this situation, I actually understand JollyRomek's point, and - to me - it appears that you are not understanding his point, and are actually perpetuating the attitude that results in Poles comparing themselves to *The West*. Said with love. I'm not trying to insult you, truly. :)

In your response to me, you initially said that these comparisons are made in order to create a point of reference. Then, you said these comparisons are only made in Poland among Poles, and you further reiterated this latter assertion in your conversation with JollyRomek.

If these comparisons are made only in Poland among Poles, then what possible need is there for a "point of reference"?

Life / Are Poles mentally more Eastern European or Western European? [171]

Wulkan, I'm not trying to twist it against you or anything like that. I simply don't quite agree with your opinion. And that's fine. We don't have agree on everything.

What I took offense at was the implication that "Eastern European" is somehow a derogative term. I truly do not see it that way. For me, there is Europe. And then, if one insists on regimenting Europe, there is Western Europe and Eastern Europe. And, to me and in my experience and in my environment, Poland was always Eastern Europe - because of the geography and because it shared a similar Slavic culture and language with many (not all) countries in this eastern part of Europe.

I understand that you were always taught that Poland is Central Europe. And I accept that. To me, personally, the distinction of Central Europe seems a little redundant, but that's just my opinion. In my opinion, "Central Europe" sounds more bland than "Eastern Europe" or "Western Europe." But, that's just my opinion. I associate "Eastern Europe" with a certain sense of romanticism that I don't associate with Western Europe (and definitely not Central Europe) - Pan Taduesz, Potop, Ogniem i Mieczem, etc. The birch trees and grassy plains, forests, and twisting rivers. The wild landscapes, untamed by humans, save for the occasional country estate. In Germany, the landscape is very beautiful but it feels like every inch has been tended to, improved upon, and organized by humans. But in Poland, and especially the further east you go, the landscape isn't so perfectly manicured. There's an element of freedom. One isn't better or worse than the other; they're just different. The Slavic soul IS different from the Anglo-Saxon and the Romance souls. Not better or worse. Just different. Maybe, having grown up in Texas, where we are fiercely independent and highly value our freedom, natural landscapes, and wide open spaces, I am drawn to that. Perhaps that's why I feel so strongly about not calling Eastern Europe "bad."

Paulina, all of my examples have been examples that I have personally heard or read. And if you say that it's used as a point of reference - ALL of the times I've experienced this comparison has been IN Poland BY Poles to other Poles. I've heard it in real life, on the radio, on the TV, and read it in Polish magazines and newspapers that are written for a Polish audience. Furthermore, telling some foreigner that Krakow is like Paris, except Polish, isn't really accurate, is it? I've also actually heard other Americans comment on this tendency to compare, as well. Maybe it's so common that people don't even notice it. But coming from another country, where NO ONE compares themselves to another country and every Joe Schmo is proud of his roots - however impressive or unimpressive they may be - it's really quite noticeable. If it happened once or twice, it would be normal. But because I see it ALL THE TIME when I'm in Poland (and even when I'm not), it starts to take on pathological dimensions. But you know, do what you will.

Life / Are Poles mentally more Eastern European or Western European? [171]

Wulkan, first of all, let's take a deep breath and calm down. We're all mature adults here. No one is trying to hurt anyone else.

Second, I'm glad you haven't come in contact with this phenomenon. Seeing as you live in England, and not knowing how often you visit Poland, I can surmise that you perhaps may not have had much experience with this.

Unfortunately, I have come in contact with this in Poland, multiple times, and over a very great number of years. In fact, I had experienced it on this very thread!


I am curious as to how saying that "Krakow... is quickly becoming the Paris of Poland" gives someone a "better image of it"? Have you seen Paris and Krakow lately? Because I have. And they are literally NOTHING alike. I mean, yeah, they're both old, they're both in Europe, they both have old buildings and paved streets, they both have a lot of Europeans living in them, and a both have a lot of tourists... but beyond the basics of a historical city, they're quite different.

Third, I'm not saying that anyone is saying that Poland is western Europe. Saying Poland is a part of western Europe and constantly comparing Polish things to their western European or American counterparts is not the same thing, and I am not saying that it is. I am merely pointing out the fact that the comparing tends to happen a lot (at, what I would consider, pathological levels; but, I digress). Clearly, you and I disagree on the motivation behind this, but at least we agree that this DOES happen sometimes. See! We CAN agree on something! ;)

Finally, please know that I'm truly not trying to hurt or insult you. I'm only trying to express my viewpoint, engage in civilized discussion, and clarify my views - as you seem to be missing my point, and instead seem intent on making it abundantly clear that Poland is central Europe. Now, as you may have noticed, this discussion is entitled "Are Poles mentally more Eastern European or Western European?" So if you have beef with the idea that someone may not consider Poland to be central European, I suggest you take it up with the original poster. God bless!

Life / Importance of awareness of Poland's heritage and culture among Polish children abroad [24]


I definitely think people should be made aware of their history and culture. However, one must also be modern and understand that things change. I don't think it's good to be 100% stuck in the past. Respect the past and strive to understand it, and allow it to inform the present and the future, but don't allow it to control the latter two.

I am genuinely curious about this claim that somebody is claiming Poles and Slavs are "newcomers" to Europe, hence not true Europeans I've never heard this before. Who is saying this?


What? Did you mean to say those who DO control us tend to destroy us?

Life / Are Poles mentally more Eastern European or Western European? [171]


Well, yes, obviously it's very much expected... does that mean people shouldn't endeavor to change, especially if their circumstance have? Poland isn't communist anymore.

Life / Importance of awareness of Poland's heritage and culture among Polish children abroad [24]


Community is not the same thing as a ghetto. It does not force the isolation of a group. Living within walking distance to a synagogue is a religious matter rather a matter of isolating oneself. There are many conservative and reform Jews who managed and still manage to be contributing, productive members of society. There are also many orthodox Jews in the US who abide the mitzvot and are still part of the society. Staying true to their religious traditions (as long as they are not impinging on other people's rights) is NOT isolation.

Life / Importance of awareness of Poland's heritage and culture among Polish children abroad [24]


Jews lived in ghettos because they were persecuted. Also, in the past, isolation was the ONLY way to survive as a culture... and survive they did. 3000 years strong. If they didn't, Judaism would be extinct in the world today. So I guess it depends on how much you value your roots.

So to the original poster:


I would say it's important.

These days, it much easier to maintain your culture while still being a part of your host country. Jews don't live in ghettos in the US. They are a thriving and integral part of the community, yet still are able to maintain their identity.

Heritage is not that hard to maintain. If the parents know the language, they should teach it to their children, as well as teach some history and culture. Further generations won't be as "authentic" as people living in Poland, or any other country of origin, of course, but you can always maintain something.

Maybe it's easier to maintain one's heritage in the US, though, since it is a nation of immigrants where it's more or less expected that at some point, your family came from somewhere else. And so the stigma of being from somewhere else or not "fully integrating" into the mainstream culture isn't that great.

Life / Are Poles mentally more Eastern European or Western European? [171]


Thank you! It's so infuriating to go to Poland and around every corner you hear people saying "Oh, so-and-so actress is like the POLISH Marilyn Monroe!" "So-and-so singer is the POLISH Britney Spears!" "So-and-so city is the POLISH Paris!" "So-and-so other city is the POLISH Berlin!" "So-and-so museum is the POLISH Louvre!!!" "So-and-so politician is the POLISH Kennedy!" "So-and-so writer is the POLISH Arthur Miller!" "So-and-so film director is the POLISH Francis Coppola!" "So-and-so park is the POLISH Central Park!" "So-and-so bridge is the POLISH London Bridge!" "So-and-so book is the POLISH Harry Potter!"

For the love of God, have some SELF RESPECT, would you?!? It's really quite embarrassing.


I completely agree with you. Of course, you can clearly see that mentality show itself with all those "X is the Polish Y!" comments. When you have people feeling pride that Krakow is the "Polish Paris," rather than feeling pride that Krakow IS Polish and has a rich culture and history (and also has one of the oldest universities in Europe), that's when you know you've really hit the bottom of the barrel. That's when you know that these people value cheap slogans, the latest Apple gadget, and the latest overpriced fashions made in a sweatshop in Taiwan or China or wherever is cheapest these days over their own roots, culture, history, people, and most significantly: self respect. Those are the kinds of people who will sell you and the country out faster than you can blink, all so they can call themselves "western" and not have anyone contradict them.

It's sad, disgusting, and deeply, deeply pathetic.

No one ever got respect for being a wannabe.

Travel / A good 1 day trip from Warsaw [6]

Kazimierz Dolny is beautiful with a ton of history. It's definitely worth the trip. Also, ruins of the Janowiec castle are just across the river and open to tourists, and Naleczow, a very pretty and historic resort town, is nearby. Naleczow may actually be a bit closer to Warsaw than KD is.

However, note that it takes 2 hours by train from Warsaw to Pulawy, and then 45 min-hour or so by city bus from Pulawy to KD, as there isn't a train station in KD.

HOWEVER, if you take travel a bus (halobus, etc there are tons of different companies), you can go straight from Warsaw to to KD, and the whole trip should take about 2.5 hours. It's more convenient then dealing with the trains and then the city bus, and it's probably cheaper too.

Life / Are Poles mentally more Eastern European or Western European? [171]


If everyone's special, no one's special. No sure why this is something be proud of or to bring up, considering:


which effectively turned the country into a power struggle between the royal/noble families instead of looking out for its common good.

Also, someone earlier in this thread proudly proclaimed Krakow to be "the Paris of Poland!"

LOL what? Why can't Krakow just be flippin Krakow? Why does it have to be compared as a second rate version of some other (incidentally, Western) city? Why can't Krakow, a city with a rich and unique history and culture spanning 17 centuries, be admired and respected for itself, instead of being lumped together with some other, COMPLETELY different city? I can assure you that someone who wants to visit Paris for a week will NOT go to Krakow instead and be like "meh. close enough." and vice versa. That's honestly so offensive to relegate Krakow to "Polish Paris," as if being "Krakow, Poland" isn't good enough.