Posts by Ifor - page 2

Ifor

2 Oct 2013

UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

The racist attributes clearly belong to the racists not Polish and Ukranian people at large.

Blatant strawman argument. No-one has made such a claim.

There is nothing personal you decided that I was anti British without any evidence just a feeling that an Irish man criticising a British broadcast must be anti British.

I'm questioning why you choose to believe half-baked conspiracy theories rather than evidence

Why do you believe half-baked conspiracy theories rather than evidence?

In an argument with an other Irish poster you decided to call him a thick mick, you made an issue of his nationality which was uncalled for and are doing the same now.

Personalised irrelevancy. You can't show any evidence that the documentary was unfair, so you drag up this stupid rubbish.

I'm beginning to think that you may need a bit of help in understanding basic concepts.....The broadcast said one thing and a different thing happened, is that not evidence of lazy sensationalism?

No, it's the other way round. The broadcast claimed racism and far right activity to be a problem in the countries concerned and backed up these claims with evidence. You couldn't counter with evidence, so you brought in conspiracy theory nonsense and personal disputes.

You lose, I'm afraid.

And make the programme sensationalist - of course they have the right to do so. I just had a better opinion of the BBC, to be honest :)

How can you claim a programme you haven't actually watched was 'sensationalised'. You haven't watched it, so therefore you don't know.

What do you think - was he right or wrong to say such things?

Right.

I'm asking if they do get reported.
How? Google - that's BBC:

In that case, they do get reported, then. And how would you know about the ones that don't get reported?

my source was Lenka and goofy.

That's anecdotal evidence then.

When a Pole in the UK gets beaten up for being Polish he is a victim of the locals and when anybody anywhere does anything bad to a Polish person because that person is Polish then one who's done this may be called a thug.

He may, good Sir, be an unmitigated bounder, blaggard and cad, who need be taken to the gates of my club and horse-whipped without mercy for his ruffianly, uncouth behaviour and ungentlemanly conduct.

It requires your explanation.

Forsooth, this matter may be beyond the wit and wisdom of a humble gentleman such as my good self.

Ifor

2 Oct 2013

UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

Because I've seen the fragment when Sol Cambell spoke. That's enough to sensationalise it

In that case you don't know the context, which is very important. Why don't you just watch the whole bloody documentary as it interests you so much, then you can give an informed opinion.

- allowing Poland and Ukraine to host Euro 2012 was a mistake?
- we Poles are unworthy of hosting such tournaments?
- families should stay out of Poland and Ukraine, because if they don't they'll "come back in a coffin"?
- Poles and Ukrainians didn't "deserve" this prestigious tournament in their countries?

You asked me 'right' or 'wrong', you didn't ask me for a nuanced answer. Therefore, all you got was whether I (generally) agreed or disagreed.

I think non-white people should steer clear of football tournaments (in Poland and particularly Ukraine) for the foreseeable future for their own safety. It's pretty unlikely they would get killed, but there is a fair chance of their getting beaten.

And, so long as this is the case, then no, the countries concerned should not hold major international sporting events.

Ifor:
That's anecdotal evidence then.

So?

It can't be proved or disproved.

Ifor

2 Oct 2013

UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

The context is that they pointed a camera at hooligans who behaved like hooligans then asked Campbell his opinion.

Your problem with this being?

This guy is a footballer who said don't go to Poland etc. How was he qualified to make a pronouncement on either country?

He was shown footage of Asians being racially assaulted in football stadiums for no reason other than that they were Asian. You don't need either a law degree or in-depth knowledge of Eastern Europe to form an opinion on racial assaults. They are wrong, shouldn't happen, and if a country allows them to happen then the country concerned should not hold major football tournaments.

He was used as a mouthpiece for the film makers, now his opinion is that Britain is racist but that now is a worthless opinion.

Have I or anyone else expressed my opinion that his opinion is 'worthless' on this matter? This is just your own, personal, strawman argument. You are a useless poster, Barney.

Ifor

2 Oct 2013

UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

The BBC broadcast footage of hooligans doing hooligan stuff then dragged a totally unqualified figure to comment.

And you are qualified, I suppose.

He said don't go to Poland or Ukraine. That is not the makings of a balanced programme, it was a sensationalist piece of lazy journalism. Attributing such negative behaviour as typical of the countries was demonstrated for the nonsense it was. Campbell had no grounds to make those claims at all.

He wasn't talking about the population as a whole. He was talking about football fans. Hopeless, strawman argument yet again, Barney.

He had plenty of grounds. Namely racial assault, and lack of police interest and protection for the victims. Which apparently doesn't concern you at all.

There is no conspiracy, the English FA would love to have the Euros but they need to build political support. You clearly have no idea how these things work, it's not good enough to turn up and say "we invented football". As I said when I posted it was an aside.

There was a conspiracy. No there wasn't. I said it. No, I didn't. I only said it as an aside etc, etc.

What are you trying to prove? You make an accusation, then backtrack from it.

You don't know whether you are coming or going.

If you believe that Campbell is somehow an expert on Polish or Ukranian affairs can you state why you believe his opinion as broadcast by the BBC and dismiss his current opinion of Britain?

I've never stated he was an 'expert', so strawman argument (again). I've asked why you imagine yourself to be an expert, but have received no reply. Have you been to any football matches in Poland? (I've been to a couple of hundred btw). I haven't 'dismissed' his opinion.

Anyway as all you have to contribute are strawman arguments, conspiracy theories that you subsequently deny having made, and irrelevant personal arguments from months ago, I think we'll draw the conversation to a close.

Please have the last word which you clearly crave.