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Posts by Ifor  

Joined: 1 Oct 2013 / Male ♂
Last Post: 2 Oct 2013
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Posts: 34

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2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

The BBC broadcast footage of hooligans doing hooligan stuff then dragged a totally unqualified figure to comment.

And you are qualified, I suppose.

He said don't go to Poland or Ukraine. That is not the makings of a balanced programme, it was a sensationalist piece of lazy journalism. Attributing such negative behaviour as typical of the countries was demonstrated for the nonsense it was. Campbell had no grounds to make those claims at all.

He wasn't talking about the population as a whole. He was talking about football fans. Hopeless, strawman argument yet again, Barney.

He had plenty of grounds. Namely racial assault, and lack of police interest and protection for the victims. Which apparently doesn't concern you at all.

There is no conspiracy, the English FA would love to have the Euros but they need to build political support. You clearly have no idea how these things work, it's not good enough to turn up and say "we invented football". As I said when I posted it was an aside.

There was a conspiracy. No there wasn't. I said it. No, I didn't. I only said it as an aside etc, etc.

What are you trying to prove? You make an accusation, then backtrack from it.

You don't know whether you are coming or going.

If you believe that Campbell is somehow an expert on Polish or Ukranian affairs can you state why you believe his opinion as broadcast by the BBC and dismiss his current opinion of Britain?

I've never stated he was an 'expert', so strawman argument (again). I've asked why you imagine yourself to be an expert, but have received no reply. Have you been to any football matches in Poland? (I've been to a couple of hundred btw). I haven't 'dismissed' his opinion.

Anyway as all you have to contribute are strawman arguments, conspiracy theories that you subsequently deny having made, and irrelevant personal arguments from months ago, I think we'll draw the conversation to a close.

Please have the last word which you clearly crave.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

The context is that they pointed a camera at hooligans who behaved like hooligans then asked Campbell his opinion.

Your problem with this being?

This guy is a footballer who said don't go to Poland etc. How was he qualified to make a pronouncement on either country?

He was shown footage of Asians being racially assaulted in football stadiums for no reason other than that they were Asian. You don't need either a law degree or in-depth knowledge of Eastern Europe to form an opinion on racial assaults. They are wrong, shouldn't happen, and if a country allows them to happen then the country concerned should not hold major football tournaments.

He was used as a mouthpiece for the film makers, now his opinion is that Britain is racist but that now is a worthless opinion.

Have I or anyone else expressed my opinion that his opinion is 'worthless' on this matter? This is just your own, personal, strawman argument. You are a useless poster, Barney.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

Because I've seen the fragment when Sol Cambell spoke. That's enough to sensationalise it

In that case you don't know the context, which is very important. Why don't you just watch the whole bloody documentary as it interests you so much, then you can give an informed opinion.

- allowing Poland and Ukraine to host Euro 2012 was a mistake?
- we Poles are unworthy of hosting such tournaments?
- families should stay out of Poland and Ukraine, because if they don't they'll "come back in a coffin"?
- Poles and Ukrainians didn't "deserve" this prestigious tournament in their countries?

You asked me 'right' or 'wrong', you didn't ask me for a nuanced answer. Therefore, all you got was whether I (generally) agreed or disagreed.

I think non-white people should steer clear of football tournaments (in Poland and particularly Ukraine) for the foreseeable future for their own safety. It's pretty unlikely they would get killed, but there is a fair chance of their getting beaten.

And, so long as this is the case, then no, the countries concerned should not hold major international sporting events.

That's anecdotal evidence then.


It can't be proved or disproved.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

The racist attributes clearly belong to the racists not Polish and Ukranian people at large.

Blatant strawman argument. No-one has made such a claim.

There is nothing personal you decided that I was anti British without any evidence just a feeling that an Irish man criticising a British broadcast must be anti British.

I'm questioning why you choose to believe half-baked conspiracy theories rather than evidence

Why do you believe half-baked conspiracy theories rather than evidence?

In an argument with an other Irish poster you decided to call him a thick mick, you made an issue of his nationality which was uncalled for and are doing the same now.

Personalised irrelevancy. You can't show any evidence that the documentary was unfair, so you drag up this stupid rubbish.

I'm beginning to think that you may need a bit of help in understanding basic concepts.....The broadcast said one thing and a different thing happened, is that not evidence of lazy sensationalism?

No, it's the other way round. The broadcast claimed racism and far right activity to be a problem in the countries concerned and backed up these claims with evidence. You couldn't counter with evidence, so you brought in conspiracy theory nonsense and personal disputes.

You lose, I'm afraid.

And make the programme sensationalist - of course they have the right to do so. I just had a better opinion of the BBC, to be honest :)

How can you claim a programme you haven't actually watched was 'sensationalised'. You haven't watched it, so therefore you don't know.

What do you think - was he right or wrong to say such things?


I'm asking if they do get reported.
How? Google - that's BBC:

In that case, they do get reported, then. And how would you know about the ones that don't get reported?

my source was Lenka and goofy.

That's anecdotal evidence then.

When a Pole in the UK gets beaten up for being Polish he is a victim of the locals and when anybody anywhere does anything bad to a Polish person because that person is Polish then one who's done this may be called a thug.

He may, good Sir, be an unmitigated bounder, blaggard and cad, who need be taken to the gates of my club and horse-whipped without mercy for his ruffianly, uncouth behaviour and ungentlemanly conduct.

It requires your explanation.

Forsooth, this matter may be beyond the wit and wisdom of a humble gentleman such as my good self.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

Everything was wrong with his opinion, ifor...
Euro is not some league match where only some die hard fans come. Plenty of normal people went to those matches, there were huge masses of people, women, families with children in fan zones. And Sol Cambell said that families should stay out because they may come back in a coffin. You really don't see anything wrong in what he said?

Sol Campbell has a right to an opinion, and the BBC have a right to broadcast this opinion.

Whether I personally think he happens to be right or wrong is an irrelevance.

Should he have been censored?

I understood everything perfectly.

And I don't think you did, but would rather discuss something else now.

No, ifor, I just see what there is. I'm not making up articles in the British press, after all lol And I stumble into those articles only because I read this forum.

Exactly. Everyday tens of thousands of articles appear in the British press. The ones that turn up here are only a minute percentage of these articles. To understand what British people really believe, you would have to widen your reading substantially.

Ifor:I imagine probably they would report it.

I'm not asking you about your imagination. I'm asking if such incidents are reported in your media.

You have a problem with pragmatics. How would I know what attacks don't get reported?

But I don't imagine (but of course don't know) that newspapers would generally refuse to print stories about violence towards Poles.

What are you talking about? I don't read any "niezależ".

Fair enough. But when somone wants to inform me of attacks on Poles in the UK, niezależ is most often the source. And this is not a source I would trust.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

My claim is that the programme makers found evidence of severe problems at these football stadia and ascribed the problems to Poland and Ukraine

Who should they have ascribed these problems to, Then? France? Germany? Luxembourg?

and used Sol Campbell to warn visitors to stay away.

How is asking him to comment 'using' him? How could they have predicted what he would say?

The comments about the English FA were clearly an aside when I described them as a suggestion.

They were central to a thesis you have no evidence for.

You have a history of abusing Irish posters

Why bring nonsense of a personal nature into all this? I have a problem with a certain poster, or rather he has a problem with me. But this has nothing to do with what is being discussed here.

and clearly don't like the British media being criticised.

Without evidence of their having stated anything unfair, inaccurate or untrue.

Is it that difficult to believe for one second that someone else may have a different opinion?

I have already stated you are entitled to your opinion, as I am, as is Sol Campbell. Mine is an informed opinion, however, yours is not, and you are totally unable to back up your opinion with evidence.

I have clearly demonstrated the sensationalist nature of the broadcast,

Or claim to have done.

But find yourself unable to support your claim with evidence.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

I am not dismissing that programme, since, as I have mentioned already.

They asked Sol Campbell to comment on the programme, and broadcast his reaction. You may not like what he said, but why should you have a problem with this? That was his personal opinion, and not necessarily that of the BBC.

And, tbh, what was wrong with his opinion? If you are black and go to football stadiums in Poland, there is a reasonable likelihood of your being attacked. You're pretty unlikely to be killed, but this might happen.

So, please, explain to me, why do you think I have reading comprehension problems ?
I wrote "I don't understand", because I think you haven't understood what we were writing about and your comment about the British not going to Poland for economic reasons was unrelated, as I already have shown to you.

I'd still say that you are (generally) a reasonable poster. I honestly don't think what I wrote is that difficult to understand, but if you can't understand it, then that's just too bad. I could explain exactly what I meant but I think it would be rather tedious and time-consuming, so it's better just to leave it.

But I also can see how, let's say, "monotematic" your tabloids are, as far as Poles are concerned.
Tell me, do your media report about such stuff like I mentioned? You know, destroying someone's door because she's Polish, attacking a Polish shop, etc.?

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm getting the impression you are just seeing what you want to see, rather than the wider picture. There may be some unpleasant/unfair articles, but I doubt whether even the tabloids are 'monotematyczny' on Polish immigration. They tend to be more focussed on the breasts of film stars and footballers' sexual activities than the 'evil' deeds of Poles.

I imagine probably they would report it. By the way, just because you've seen something in 'niezależ', it isn't necessarily true.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

Propaganda does not have to be biased

Yes, it does. That's part of the definition of 'propaganda', which is a pejorative word.

I said that the programme was biased

But have produced no evidence whatsoever to back up your claim.

and hence a propaganda piece (which I believe it was),


the comment about needing to secure support for any English FA bid for football tournaments was an aside as I made clear.

It wasn't an 'aside'. This is the assumption on which you base your accusation of 'bias'.

The rest you made up in your mind.

What exactly did I 'make up'?

Using some ugly scenes at a match and the existence of Ultras to warn people ahead of a major tournament was the very definition of sensationalist.

What exactly do you expect a programme on football hooliganism to show? Herds of wildebeast in the Serengeti?

I pointed out that the programme suggested black and Asian football fans would be attacked, that didn't happen so it looks like the programme was indeed sensationalist.

Few black or Asian fans went (thankfully) so this is hardly any great surprise. The video I posted gives us a good reason why.

You don't think the program was biased, I didn't therefore suggest you were a British nationalist "my country right or wrong" type yet you felt free to suggest my differing opinion made me anti British.

It is your unquestioning acceptance of a half-baked conspiracy theory involving Britain that is wholly unsupported by any evidence that leads me to suspect possible anglophobic bias.

I said that the reaction you had was similar to the reaction you accuse Polish people of having.

If you can provide evidence then I'll consider it. .

If you have a problem with anyone commenting on a programme by any British broadcaster or voicing an opinion different to yours you have a major issues.

Either you can support a viewpoint with facts, or you cannot. You have completely failed to show any factual inaccuracies in the programme.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

[quote=Harry]Perhaps Barney would prefer to claim that it was partly that and partly a result of the Anti-Polish feeling in the UK he thinks exists in the UK

I think you are personalising the discussion here.

(As Barney did bringing up irrelevancies from previous discussions).

However, I believe it valid to ask Barney why he supports the theory of mysterious British plots.

It's hard to believe he'd have a similar theory about broadcasting organisations from nations other than Britain.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

[quote=Barney]Oh god not another one displaying exactly the same attributes they feel all Polish people have. There has been no evidence produced for these beliefs beyond "a bloke told me" produced here.

Polish football ultras are not the same as all Polish people.

You seem to be attempting to move the discussion away from the facts, which are that Polish football supporters groups are dominated by right wing thugs, who pose a threat to non-white people visiting Poland.

We have to ask why someone who is supposedly 'anti-racist' is not apparently not concerned by this.

The fact that the programme was made by the BBC, which contains the word 'British', provides us with a helpful clue here.

There has been no evidence produced for these beliefs

The evidence was filmed assaults on Asians during a match, Nazi saluting, interviews with fan groups.

As if further evidence were needed, I posted another video.

It is you who has failed to produce evidence for your claims that a programme exposing racism and thuggery was merely part of some nefarious British plot to blacken the name of Poland so England could get the Euros for themselves.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

But it is typical of the behaviour of Polish football ultras.

Ifor you are not quite as bad

I neither need nor require your praise.

The English made great strides in removing hooliganism from the grounds,

And did they do this by accepting they had a problem and looking for ways to solve it, or by brushing it under the carpet and claiming anyone who mentioned it was part of some nefarious anti-English plot?
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

The point of view was that Asian and Black people attending the tournament would not be safe in either country yet that turns out to be wrong
There was no political strategy just a lazy journalist making a very weak biased piece.

How is it wrong?

They are 'unsafe'.

Here is a group of Mexicans being attacked on a beach in Gdynia a few weeks ago by football fans, taken not by the BBC, but rather by the Polish police monitoring camera:

Now, would it have been a good idea had those Mexicans watched the Panorama documentary?
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

Ask yourself why England never had a championship for decades was it because they "invented" football or was it because of their fans reputation?

It was because of their reputation, something we thankfully put behind us decades ago. And something that countries such as Poland and Ukraine need to urgently address in the present century.

Should the English FA have ignored the problem and claimed anyone who mentioned it was somehow 'plotting' against them?

What about Panorama documentaries about hooliganism in England? Were they in league with others in some kind of anti-English plot?

I have not said that the Panorama programme was factually inaccurate I said the programme was a piece of propaganda that insinuated something that wasn't true.

Your logic is somewhat confused here.

'factually inaccurate' means the same as 'not true'.

Either claims made were false or else they weren't.

What do you believe?

And if the programme made false claims, then what were they?

Its the easiest thing in the world to point a camera and get the footage you want then make massive assumptions about the country that is what Panorama did.

If the people concerned hadn't done what they did then they wouldn't have had the footage.

If I pointed a camera at you, would I get footage of you committing a racial assault.

You are 'shooting the messenger here. Why, because the messenger happens to be from your least favourite country?

Can you tell me what 'assumptions' were made and why they are 'untrue'?

It is not untrue that ethnic minority fans are under threat at football stadiums in Poland, and neither is untrue to state that supporters organisations have been influenced by the far right in Poland.

You can't answer the points above, and you are doing a terrible job of defending the indefensible.

You are defending the point of view of PiS, who are in denial about the influence of the far right.

That's not a particularly nice position to find yourself in, Barney.

[quotation]Sol Campbell was used as a poster boy for that programme because he had been England captain and was Black, he was urging people to avoid the two countries.[/quote]

He was urging ethnic minorities not to go. You yourself said they should be 'extra cautious'. Why go somewhere where you need be 'extra cautious'?

Was he wrong, and if so how?

And what problem do you have with Panorama asking the opinion of a former black England football captain?
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

Either your No means that the BBC programme is not a piece of propaganda
or Barney's Yes means that it is. You both at least agree to measure the BBC programme by the same standard.

Is then a way to make an objective judgment?

Here is a succinct and user-friendly definition of the word 'propaganda':


Information, esp. of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.
The dissemination of such information as a political strategy.

It's up to Barney to demonstrate that:

the programme was biased or misleading
that it was publicising a particular cause or point of view
that this information was being disseminated as a political strategy

He's pretty far from doing so.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

Yes even though they (UK teams) have four votes they do need to build backing and there is a lot of politicking involved.
Try using the line we invented football as your hook to secure a tournament and see how far you get.

Your opinion here is frankly ridiculous, Barney. It is not being absurdly patriotic to suggest that England has a lot of prestige in the football world, and therefore has little need to organise a 'dirty tricks' campaign merely for the right to organise a football tournament.

As Poland/Ukraine had just staged a tournament, they would not be in contention again for some years.

Furthermore, the BBC is a genuinely independent organisation.

One point you seriously need to address, is that nothing in the Panorama programme was inaccurate.

I thought you were against racism, the far right and so on. So, a major broadcaster highlights this problem and you are opposed to this ?!?!

On what grounds? That the broadcaster happens to be 'British'? So, Harry has summarised you correctly, then?

I don't agree that so called "Ethnic minorities" should avoid either Poland or Ukraine they just have to be extra cautious.

Why should ethnic minority people have to be 'extra cautious'?

Now that Sol Campbell has been recognised as an unimpeachable source his insistence that Britain is a Racist place is correct is it?

He's as entitled to his opinion as much as the next man. I wouldn't be angry with any broadcaster for reporting his remarks, or state they were disseminating 'propaganda' for doing so. I'm not going to organise any anti-Sol Campbell demonstrations because of what he said.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

By portraying Britain in general and England specifically as a good place to have a tournament unlike places further east. It wasn't about having the last one moved I never suggested that, its laying the ground work for future applications. Of course that is just a suggestion,

Again, conspiracy theory on a grand scale.

Are you seriously suggesting the United Kingdom, which invented football, and has the world's richest professional league, really needs to bash countries such as Poland and Ukraine in order to host a football tournament?

If you honestly believe that, then it appears Harry has got your number.

The program asked people to stay away suggesting families would not be safe in either country.

It suggested ethnic minorities should stay away. Entirely correctly. Would you disagree with that assessment?

It was about much more than the actual matches.

In your imagination. Panorama identified a real problem. Are you seriously denying that racism and the far right are not a serious issue in football stadiums in Poland and Ukraine?
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

And how would this programme have helped them to achieve this?

The tournament had already been awarded to Poland/Ukraine. There was little or no possiblity of UEFA changing their decision at that stage.

That's a conspiracy theory on a really grand scale.

You still have yet to explain what was wrong with the programme, (which was about the influence of the far right in football stadiums in Poland and the Ukraine).

If it gave a false view, then:

(a) do you deny there is a physical threat to football supporters from ethnic minorities attending football tournaments in Poland and the Ukraine from far right thugs?


(b) do you deny that that the far right has significant influence on football supporters associations in Poland?

Points (a) and (b) are what the documentary informed its viewers of, and both points are entirely correct.

If you don't believe either point to be correct, could you please tell us why.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

I simply said that the BBC broadcast a sensationalist programme that was effectively a piece of propaganda. The reaction of posters here is very similar to the reaction they suggest is more likely to be found among Polish people

I wasn't a piece of 'propaganda'. It wasn't 'promoting or disseminating any particular ideology'. You may not have agreed with the programme, but the word you have used to describe it was entirely inaccurate.

The programme suggested that it was unsafe for people from ethnic minorities to attend football matches in Poland and Ukraine. It is extremely hard to see how this opinion was unfair. Perhaps you could tell us the reason you believe this to be the case.

Did you see the footage of Mexicans being beaten by football hooligans in Gdynia in August?
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

I'll ask again at exactly what distance from ones home does ones opinion become worthless?

I watched the programme I found it to be sensationalist and biased and indeed a piece of propaganda.

Either the programme accurately reflected fans' behaviour, or it did not. People who are familiar with the behaviour of Polish football fans can provide an informed opinion on this matter. Those who have never been to match in Poland, can't.

You are entitled to your opinion, but it isn't an informed one.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

But then we're speaking as people who live in Poland, have lived in Poland for many years and follow Polish football (well, I personally have the misfortunate of having Polonia Warszawa as my local team but there is the occasional outbreak of football in amongst the comedy of errors that is Polonia Warszawa). Barney lives in Ireland, has never lived in Poland and apparently knows bugger all about Polish football (and Polish football fans).

I'd go as far as to say I'm pretty well qualified to speak about this.

I have a press pass for my local team, and go to every match. I've even taken photos of the 'action' away from the stadium.

Barney objects to the presence of far-right thugs interrupting university lectures, yet not their presence at just about every professional football match that takes place in Poland.

It isn't pleasant, and any non-white football fan wishing to attend matches in Poland should be aware of these groups, their attitude and behaviour, for their own safety.

It's a pity the Mexican sailors in Gdynia never watched the programme, as it might have saved them from an extremely unpleasant experience.

Some Polish are indeed over sensitive. Some Brits are too. However, Poles are rather more likely to be over sensitive. One example: just look at the number of 'baddies' in Hollywood films who are British, but rarely (if ever) does one hear Brits complain about that; however, in the film Enigma the baddie is a Pole and there's endless whining about that.

The vast majority of Poles never grew up in a multi-cultural environment, and many are wholly unfamiliar with perspectives of the world that are not Polish. Therefore, some are shocked and hurt to discover that not every history book in the world portrays them as the 'noble victims' of the misdeeds of others, as they had been told at school. Given the opening of borders after communism, and the free movement of peoples within the EU, this will hopefully change.
2 Oct 2013
History / Polish hatred towards Jews... [1290]

My parents
- Learned the language
- Didn't reproduce
- Never sat on welfare

So you emerged fully formed from primeval slime through the sewage system. Figures, I suppose.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

The program was a hatchet job it was unbalanced and was indeed sensationalist propaganda.

In your opinion. Yet you make no attempt whatsoever to back up your claim with evidence.

Furthermore, you don't appear to understand the meaning of the word, 'propaganda'.
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

Would you be so kind and share your insight into...?

My insight into anti-Polish feeling?

I don't really have the time to write any kind of in-depth analysis.

However, given the massive immigration over the previous ten years from Poland, the biggest surprise is that it is not greater than it currently is.

I wonder how Poland would cope with a similar influx?

I saw it and it was crude propaganda though not quite in the same category as the Mail and its attack on a Jewish refugee of Polish extraction who happened to volunteer to fight fascism but it was propaganda none the less.

I saw it and I'd say it was pretty accurate.

If you regard it as 'propaganda', then I'd suggest you don't fully understand the meaning of this word.

What 'attack' in the Mail would you be referring to here?
2 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

Btw, I'm not commenting on the programme alone, since I haven't even seen it.

You are dismissing a programme you haven't actually seen as 'propaganda'. Presumably on the basis that it said something bad about Poland, or rather that someone informed you that it said something bad about Poland.

I don't understand how is that an answer to what we are writing about?

Reading comprehension not your strong point, I take it.

Do you live in the UK now, ifor?

No, but I am British, I lived there for thirty years, go there about twice a year, and so on. And this gives me a greater insight into what people think and feel there than someone who gets their opinions from the dross that is posted on Polish Forums, I would imagine.
1 Oct 2013
UK, Ireland / And you wonder why there is Anti-Polish feeling in the UK [187]

Really? You mean what you get from media can sometimes distort the reality and influence the way people think about a country and it's people? :O
You remember that guy who said that people should stay away from Euro 2012 or they will end up in a coffin? ;O:D

Given what happened in Gdynia a few months ago, how was the programme inaccurate?

Ifor, I don't think you've understood what we're talking about.

Or you haven't fully understood my point.

Lenka wrote once on chat that her friend living in the UK had her appartement door destroyed because she's Polish. Goofy (also in the UK) wrote that some Polish shop in his neighbourhood was attacked.

Bad things happen everywhere. But you will only know what a place is really like by actually going there and seeing for yourself.
1 Oct 2013
News / Poles start to feel arrogant and superior to Southern Europeans [83]

If there is a trait of character or a vice for Poles to reproach themselves with it's the mindless imitation of the way of thinking of others:

If Poles are copying others, then they can hardly be quick off the mark.

There's a seven hundred year gap between the events you described, and, for example, the Kielce pogrom in 1946, which featured accusations of 'blood libel'.

Witch trials were all the rage in 17th century England, so maybe they'll catch on in Poland in another four hundred years or so.
1 Oct 2013
History / Polish hatred towards Jews... [1290]

I was replying to one (longish) post, not the thread as a whole.

I don't say there isn't any antisemitism in Poland - of course there is, as well as in the other countries.

That's fair enough. There are some good Polish people, bad Polish people, and a lot somewhere in between. Same as everywhere else, I'd imagine.
1 Oct 2013
History / Polish hatred towards Jews... [1290]

If you are accusing Poles of antisemitism it's probably because you project your own rasism and xenophobia on us, the ugly feelings you don't want to recognise and acknowledge in yourself, but which are all too visible after reading some of the threads on this forum

May I take the liberty of summarising your post in a short, succinct sentence.

"We were always good and everyone else was ever so wicked."