Life / A recent visit to Poland. First time after 12 years. [19]


well, your assumptions are far from correct. I was happy to see my family, old friends, neighbors and some teachers. in case you missed it, my point was that not a whole lot has changed, and the changes that did take place were not all positive.

Life / Teenage Pregnancy in Poland [108]

omg, you are actually serious

How is birth control shirking from responsibility? I thought that is what responsible people do, actually.

It's not about personality, it's about means and being able to provide for your kids. Hardly anyone can do that when they're 16, and just because they don't want kids at 16 doesn't mean they won't want them at 30.


It's an individual's decision. No government and no society should ever tell an individual what to do with their body, or be able to decide who should or should not have kids. It's egregiously overstepping any government's mandate and no civilized country would ever back such a measure.

Life / Teenage Pregnancy in Poland [108]


because it's irreversible, or close to being so. as far as i know, it's not illegal and accessible to anyone who wants to do it now. if it's easy and cheap, and so convenient, why do you think it's not more widespread already?


well, since you'll already be giving them a responsibility test in order to decide whether they should be sterilized, why not share the results with the DMV? It may save some car accidents in the future. Maybe a future employer, too? So they don't get hired, by any chance. And while you're at it, the banks, so that they don't get a loan they might not be able to pay off. Or a potential boyfriend or girlfriend, so they know what they're getting into ahead of time... Actually, we might just give them armbands to wear at all times, so that we all know who they are!

People should be free to make mistakes in their lives. That's what life is about - learning, growing, gaining experience, and passing it on.

Life / Teenage Pregnancy in Poland [108]


I have a number of friends and coworkers who did that and there actually isn't any value judgement associated with it, otherwise they wouldn't be sharing it with anyone. But they all made that decision carefully in their 30s and 40s, after they had the kids they wanted or whatever other personal reason made sense to them. God, if i knew at 16 what I know now, it would be a whole different life for me, but it's all about the ride, right?


oh, i thought we needed medical professionals to determine who is suitable?

let's face it, if teenagers were somehow miraculously capable of such diligent introspection and such thorough analysis of their future states of mind, there would be no teenage pregnancies in the first place.

as well as no broken marriages, no career changes, no dropping out of schools. possibly no return desks in department stores. or confessionals, for that matter.

Life / A recent visit to Poland. First time after 12 years. [19]

none, as far as villages go. one of the largest towns in Upper Silesia, about 200-250,000 people. and a few smaller towns around.

Life / Teenage Pregnancy in Poland [108]


Medical professionals are people, too. They make mistakes, sometimes all too often. They have their own biases, beliefs, and agendas. They're not objective. I doubt any of them would want to bear the responsibility and the liability of authoritatively recommending the permanent disabling of one of the functions of the body of a teenager.

How about the parents? Wouldn't their word count? Would a person at 16 be strong and independent enough not to yield to the pressure of his or her family, potentially resulting in an irreversible step they may regret years later? Would every parent always give the right advice?

How about their future relationships? Wouldn't this early decision make them less desirable as spouses and life partners in the future, potentially leading to unhappiness? Shouldn't a couple decide together whether or not they are ready to and want to raise children?

Life / A recent visit to Poland. First time after 12 years. [19]

Upper Silesia in general has never been the most picturesque of regions. Nevertheless, my family has lived, worked, and died there for generations, and I've always been proud of it. It is ugly there, but there is beauty in ugliness when you understand your history and your roots, and all the struggle and hard work that went into that ugly neck of the woods... I guess I just wish things had gotten much better over the past 12 years than they did.

Life / Teenage Pregnancy in Poland [108]

People already have the option. No need to push it on teenagers.

Whatever changes a female body undergoes on the pill (and some of them positive) is nothing compared to tying the tubes.

I thought we just agreed that people at 16 are not particularly thoughtful about what they want in the future?

They're not old enough to drive, to drink, to get a regular job, or to join the military. Some of them haven't received half the education they will during their lifetime, and they have maybe 10% of their general life experience at that point. They haven't seen enough, met enough people, tried enough ideas. 16 is simply not old enough to make irrevocable decisions about something so important in your future.

Life / Teenage Pregnancy in Poland [108]

i didn't mean it wasn't safe, just drastic, unlike taking the pill. You can be on the pill for years and then stop and go back to regular cycles. With tubal ligation, there's no going back.

Life / Teenage Pregnancy in Poland [108]

And for some they're beneficial. And there are birth control methods that don't involve any hormones or surgery whatsoever, not to mention they prevent STDs, too. I would rather provide kids with education and contraception than with judgment and sterilization. You voice your disapproval equally at birth control and abortion, which is rather self-contradictory.

One consequence of having sterilization as the preferred solution would be that teenagers would avoid/postpone making that loaded decision and do nothing, and therefore be actually more likely to get pregnant than if they could simply go to a doctor or a pharmacy for contraception with ease, without being judged, and without lifelong consequences.

Teenagers have sex the world over. It's what you do when you're young. Most civilized societies figured out, more or less, that education is the key here, not surgery.

Life / Teenage Pregnancy in Poland [108]


in an ideal world. this is reality.


Really? You'd rather sterilize people to save them the all-in-all insignificant expense of buying condoms?

Why not give condoms out for free at schools then? Whatever you'd pay for medical and psychological evaluations, and for surgical staff and facilities, would buy truckloads of condoms.

You do realize in some places it's mandatory for girls to get parental consent before getting a birth control prescription? Not to mention sex education may often be outdated and inadequate, and delivered by utterly unqualified people. Wouldn't it make more sense to fix that before anyone rolls out the snipping campaign?