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Posts by exonie  

Joined: 8 Jan 2012 / Male ♂
Last Post: 18 Jan 2012
Threads: 1
Posts: 4
From: Bulgaria
Speaks Polish?: I'm learning it (beginner level)
Interests: Język polski :)

Displayed posts: 5
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exonie   
18 Jan 2012
Language / Stenka and stęka - on alleged non-existence of nasal vowels in spoke Polish [17]

i was giving /j/ as an example of a glide in general because it's better known, didn't mean it's the glide when articulating <ę> :)

hmm, didn't actually know how the Polish pronounce <n>, honestly those nasals sound the same to me..

And you are right - media and i should add - education, are killing language evolution. for the better or not.. i think that if we are to get so conscious about our language and disrupt natural evolution then we should take control of it ourselves and make it better. but instead, people oppose any changes to the language. i like Esperanto :)
exonie   
18 Jan 2012
Language / Stenka and stęka - on alleged non-existence of nasal vowels in spoke Polish [17]

I've been wondering about this myself. I'm not Polish but i'll share my thoughts nevertheless.
First of all - same/different and nasal/not nasal are two distinct questions. Obviously it could be pronounced differently whether or not it is nasal.

Often you'll be told <ę> is read, in the middle of words, like /en/ but in more detailed explanations they'll tell you that it's actually /e/ followed by something like a nasal glide. A glide is something like the /j/ sound as in the name Maya. Characteristic of glides is that they can be articulated at different places and act as something like a "bridge" to the surrounding sounds - they "glide" from one to the other. That's why <ę> before back consonants is articulated at the back /eŋ/ which is different from the articulation of <en> like /en/ at the front (alveolar). <ę> before fricatives like /s/ and /z/ does not even touch the roof of the mouth as it just glides to a consonant that doesn't touch the roof either. And finally - before alveolar plosives - /t/ and /d/ - <ę> will sound like /en/ just because it will be forced by the consonants to be articulated in the same way as <n>. In front of the labial plosives /p/ and /b/ it will sound like /em/ for the same reason. So, in some circumstances, it sounds the same as <en> or <em> but in others not. Perhaps in the past it had a more pronounced nasality than today. The language is alive and there're dialects where <ę> at the end of the word is still nasal while most other people pronounce it just /e/. I guess <ę> has lost some of its nasality, especially in certain sound configurations, but the spelling persists so we have to remember for each word if /e/ at the end of a word is written <ę> or <e> (well there're certain rules that help of course) or in other words is it <ent> or <ęt>, etc.. Perhaps in the future <ę> will lose its nasality altogether. As a comparison <ą> is more "stubborn" and is still nasal at the end of words :)

As for the question is it nasal or not - it's more a matter of classification/definition rather than actual difference in opinions about how it's articulated. I mean, probably most phoneticians will agree on the way it is articulated but it's just that they explain it in different terms. It's hard to give discrete/differentiated definitions about linguistic matters when things in linguistics usually exhibit a continuous spectrum of possibilities. Let's say it's a nasal that's in the process of losing its nasality :)
exonie   
9 Jan 2012
Language / Words with subtle differences in Polish language (or are they complete synonyms?) [8]

Thanks for the detailed response
You helped me a lot! Though i find some of the verb nuances a bit difficult to grasp. Linguists try to fit things in neat categories but the language is not at all "neat". I guess i'll need more "exposure" to the language :)

BTW, is there a dictionary that explains (at least roughly) the meanings of prefixes in Polish?
exonie   
8 Jan 2012
Language / Words with subtle differences in Polish language (or are they complete synonyms?) [8]

Could someone tell me if the following words differ in usage:

- praca/robota
- światło/światłość
- jeść/jadać/zjeść/zjadać
- biuro/gabinet
- fotka/zdjęcie
- jajo/jaje/jajko
- księga/książka
- królik/zając/truś/trusia

And if they differ, could you provide contrastive examples where one of the words could be used but not the other or explain any stylistic differences they might have (like.. old word used primarily in poems, more colloqual or formal, having certain connotations, etc).

If anyone else wonders over a different word pair post it in this thread.
exonie   
8 Jan 2012
Language / Polish pronunciation animations? [7]

Yeah, i've been searching for something like this using search terms like "palatogram" and "vocal tract configuration" but with no results :-/ i guess we'll have to do with just the articulatory descriptions given here and there. But i'm still not sure i'm doing the rz/ź, cz/ć, dż/dź sounds correctly.