Polson
3 May 2016
Food / Is brain-damaging vegan fad growing in Poland? [176]
Unfortunately, no other governments had had the guts to form such ethical laws since the nazis, pity ;)
Probably not. But I read somewhere that we eat like 7,000 animals in a lifetime. That's still 7,000 lifes spared when you're a vegetarian.
Or, if you prefer, 7,000 deaths you won't participate in. That's quite something, especially if you like animals ;)
Indeed, vegetarians/vegans don't expect cruelty to just disappear. They want to minimize it as much as possible.
As to animal testing, alternative methods exist. I'm not saying we could avoid 100% of all animal experiments, but some cruel experiments really could and should be avoided.
True. But there's something nice about humans: we have moral/ethics. We don't do just what we want. We are responsible beings (or at least we're supposed to). Responsability is the key word here I think. I'm not shocked when a lion catches and kills a antelope, but I am when I see humans treating animals like they were furniture from IKEA, that we can "produce", kill, disassemble and stock.
(Actually, furniture from IKEA may receive a better treatment than the animals we eat)
Vegans reject all animal products. The thing is: as every (mammal) female, cows don't produce milk all the time. They have milk only when they have to feed their calf. In the dairy industry, cows are inseminated every year, so they can "produce" a calf (and MILK). The separation of the cow and its calf happens ASAP after birth (which, apparently, make them scream and look for each other for days) so we can get as much milk as possible. If the calf is a male, it will only live a few months and then be slaughtered. If it's a female, it will become like its mother and have a short and exhausting life.
A cow can live about 20 years in the wild. Dairy cows in the dairy industry do not live more than 5-6 years. As soon as they "produce" less, they are transformed into minced meat for hamburgers.
Vegans are not crazy. They're actually very logical... ;)
Becoming vegetarian is actually easy. Turning vegan is a bit harder, but probably more rewarding.
Pro's and con's, I don't know, it depends. Becoming vegetarian was probably the best decision of my life (so far). I can't find any serious con. It's all good to me. The food is diverse, rich, tasty, and healthy (I eat more organic food now than when I was an omnivore). And it feels so much better to know that what you eat hasn't caused any pain.
I think vegetarians and vegans generally have a more diverse (and quality) diet than omnivorous people. They eat more fruits, vegetables, legumes, cereals. The vitamin and mineral intake is generally good. But yes, as any diet, you can miss out on some vitamins and minerals.
Vitamin B12 is a famous "problem". But it can be easily fixed.
Various studies have shown that vegetarians are healthier (and live longer apparently) than omnivorous people. Vegans do even better...
I think I read somewhere that there could be some sort of drug addiction with meat... ;)
I can share my own experience. Ever since I'm a vegetarian, I don't feel hungry all the time, and I haven't gained much weight.
I think our body adapts to what we give it (food).
One more thing: there are "famous" vegetarian/vegan bodybuilders. But to be honest, I don't know if they take steroids or any other food supplement ;)
True. But we're no lions or wolves or cats. We are humans. We can adapt, think, make the difference between good and bad, and change our habits to suit our moral/ethics. I really like wolves, but I don't expect them to do anything like that ;)
Mm, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Our meat industry (in the whole EU including Poland (very probably)) also uses all sorts of hormones, antibiotics, etc. Which is not surprising considering how important meat is in our culture. When you need to produce that much, I think hormones and antibiotics are inevitable at some point.
It's really late here. We'll keep talking tomorrow, if you want to ;)
I stated they were among the first to form animal welfare laws which groups like PETA fight for.
Unfortunately, no other governments had had the guts to form such ethical laws since the nazis, pity ;)
You don't have to be a vegetarian to put a dent into animal cruelty.
Probably not. But I read somewhere that we eat like 7,000 animals in a lifetime. That's still 7,000 lifes spared when you're a vegetarian.
Or, if you prefer, 7,000 deaths you won't participate in. That's quite something, especially if you like animals ;)
I think I'd rather have a new drug tested on a rat than a human being.
Indeed, vegetarians/vegans don't expect cruelty to just disappear. They want to minimize it as much as possible.
As to animal testing, alternative methods exist. I'm not saying we could avoid 100% of all animal experiments, but some cruel experiments really could and should be avoided.
even other animals are cruel to each other. Ever see a cat catch a mouse?
True. But there's something nice about humans: we have moral/ethics. We don't do just what we want. We are responsible beings (or at least we're supposed to). Responsability is the key word here I think. I'm not shocked when a lion catches and kills a antelope, but I am when I see humans treating animals like they were furniture from IKEA, that we can "produce", kill, disassemble and stock.
(Actually, furniture from IKEA may receive a better treatment than the animals we eat)
Also, some of the more extreme PETA types are against milking cows and many vegans are against drinking milk
Vegans reject all animal products. The thing is: as every (mammal) female, cows don't produce milk all the time. They have milk only when they have to feed their calf. In the dairy industry, cows are inseminated every year, so they can "produce" a calf (and MILK). The separation of the cow and its calf happens ASAP after birth (which, apparently, make them scream and look for each other for days) so we can get as much milk as possible. If the calf is a male, it will only live a few months and then be slaughtered. If it's a female, it will become like its mother and have a short and exhausting life.
A cow can live about 20 years in the wild. Dairy cows in the dairy industry do not live more than 5-6 years. As soon as they "produce" less, they are transformed into minced meat for hamburgers.
Vegans are not crazy. They're actually very logical... ;)
What are the pro's and con's though of being a vegan or even vegetarian?
Becoming vegetarian is actually easy. Turning vegan is a bit harder, but probably more rewarding.
Pro's and con's, I don't know, it depends. Becoming vegetarian was probably the best decision of my life (so far). I can't find any serious con. It's all good to me. The food is diverse, rich, tasty, and healthy (I eat more organic food now than when I was an omnivore). And it feels so much better to know that what you eat hasn't caused any pain.
It looks like missing out on vitamins and minerals, especially b12, are the biggest concerns.
I think vegetarians and vegans generally have a more diverse (and quality) diet than omnivorous people. They eat more fruits, vegetables, legumes, cereals. The vitamin and mineral intake is generally good. But yes, as any diet, you can miss out on some vitamins and minerals.
Vitamin B12 is a famous "problem". But it can be easily fixed.
Various studies have shown that vegetarians are healthier (and live longer apparently) than omnivorous people. Vegans do even better...
If I gave up eating meat
for even a week, I'd probably eat like pasta, potatoes, rice, etc. and probably gain weight thanks to carbs and still feel hungry all the time.
for even a week, I'd probably eat like pasta, potatoes, rice, etc. and probably gain weight thanks to carbs and still feel hungry all the time.
I think I read somewhere that there could be some sort of drug addiction with meat... ;)
I can share my own experience. Ever since I'm a vegetarian, I don't feel hungry all the time, and I haven't gained much weight.
I think our body adapts to what we give it (food).
One more thing: there are "famous" vegetarian/vegan bodybuilders. But to be honest, I don't know if they take steroids or any other food supplement ;)
Animals eat each other too - it's part of nature.
True. But we're no lions or wolves or cats. We are humans. We can adapt, think, make the difference between good and bad, and change our habits to suit our moral/ethics. I really like wolves, but I don't expect them to do anything like that ;)
Poland already has such wonderful food that isn't treated with hormones, antibiotics, and all sorts of other garbage like the food in N. America.
Mm, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Our meat industry (in the whole EU including Poland (very probably)) also uses all sorts of hormones, antibiotics, etc. Which is not surprising considering how important meat is in our culture. When you need to produce that much, I think hormones and antibiotics are inevitable at some point.
It's really late here. We'll keep talking tomorrow, if you want to ;)