News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


I think many of them just don't like Jews, at all. They realise it happened but think that the number of Jewish deaths has been greatly inflated and the Holocaust is now just used as an industry for Jewish organisations to make money [that part is partially true], so they deny it every happened just to **** off the Jews.

Perhaps some extreme conspiracy theorists do believe it was a hoax, but not many I think.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Haha true. England, Russia and the USA all think they won the war. So you will get a different version depending on the country you live in.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

@Lyzko

5 years in prison for saying something factually incorrect. Really?

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


As is 5 years in Israel for Holocaust denial.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

One thing I found to be very telling was when some Jewish reporter tweeted [just after the outrage broke out] that with this law, Poland has managed to unite almost all of the Israeli government.

Funny how the left and right of the Israeli government are normally at each other's throat, yet when a law is brought in that they believe could hinder extracting money to Jewish organisations, they are able to unite.

Po polsku / Nocna zmiana nudnooo [427]


Hehe myslalem o tym, ale ja w Londynie. Troche daleko.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

PiS chairman Jaroslaw Kaczynski has stated that there is no way Poland will be paying compensation for the crimes committed by Nazi Germany.

fronda.pl/a/kaczynski-polska-nie-zaplaci-zydom-podatku-od-niemieckich-zbrodni%2C106460.html

I like that PiS are not dancing around the issue. They can see the outrage broke out only because the law has thrown a spanner in the works to squeeze compensation out of Poland for the Holocaust. Now Kaczynski, when referring to the issue, flat out says there will be no payments, even though that isn't what the outrage is 'officially' about. It's about money and it's in the open now, even being publicly mentioned by the PiS chairman. I like that.

In the meantime, it seems Israel is still throwing its toys out of the pram. Knesset is working on recalling ambassador Azari as a form of protest and I honestly don't think Poland should care if they do.

tvp.info/35980398/komisja-knesetu-pracuje-nad-odwolaniem-ambasador-anny-azari-cel-wywrzec-presje-na-polske

Po polsku / Nocna zmiana nudnooo [427]

A to ty mieszkasz w UK. Nawet nie zauwazylem. A gdzie dokladnie?

UK, Ireland / Living in a Polish/Gypsy community in Poland. People don't like me there. [25]


I don't think it's just 'people like you.' Many Polish people, particularly patriotic ones, don't trust gypsies, Arabs, Jews and other communities stereotypically known for sticking together, swindling others just so they can be better off and generally having little to no respect for those who aren't part of their community and culture.

Gypsies for instance are often considered a group who don't assimilate particularly well. They have also been known to steal. I think rather than disliking you, it's more a distrust.

Po polsku / Nocna zmiana nudnooo [427]


No tak. W sumie nazywasz sie wredotka, wiec moze to znak ostrzegawczy.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

By the way, in reference to a previous discussion we were having on general Anders, I have attached a screenshot from his book 'Bez ostatniego rozdziału.'

It appears [as I mentioned before], depending on how you read it, that there were two Jews who were very keen to form separate armys or separate divisions in the army, including an only Jewish one.

The plan one would assume, once the army/s were put together by Anders and he managed to get his men out of Russia, would be for them to desert and sod off to Palestine. Anders didn't allow for a Jewish only division to the army, as he didn't feel it would be fair to separate his men.

[edit] Ok it appears, despite the screenshot being less than 100kb, for some reason it doesn't show. This forum really needs some damn sorting out. It's so hard to do the most basic tasks, like even post a screenshot from your computer.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Yeah but they're not really remaining neutral, are they? Merkel responded to the question by stating that Germans were responsible for the Holocaust. That is what Poland's law is getting at too. The very fact she isn't criticising the law means she doesn't have a problem with it. Believe me, if she did, she would give her opinion on the issue. The reason Israel and the Jewish lobby in the USA is upset with the law, is because they want to narrative to be that Germany and Poland together were responsible for the Holocaust. So her and her foreign minister basically saying the Germans are the ones responsible, is taking a side in the argument, by putting the blame squarely on her country.

By the way why are you pretending to be Jewish and calling people goyim just to wind them up?

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Whatever America expects, Poland backtracking on this now would basically be political suicide domestically.

Unless their plan is to get the constitutional tribunal, to whom the president sent the law for 'checking over' after he signed it, to say that it isn't in keeping with the constitution. This way the president can send it back for alterations to be made and keep the USA v[and their besties Israel] happy. Although I think this deceptive way of basically doing what the USA wants would be too see-through to the electoral base. What's done is done and I think they're just going to ride it out and hope that after some time people stop talking about it and they can move on.

Very interesting that Germany are not joining in the 'Holocaust law' criticism onslaught. First the foreign minister and now the the Chancellor both basically saying 'it was Germany's fault,' rather than criticising Poland.

reuters.com/article/us-israel-poland-germany/merkel-dodges-question-on-polands-new-holocaust-law-idUSKBN1FU105

I find it funny that she said she doesn't want to interfere in Poland's issues. Hah, you mean what the German run EU has been doing for ages now?

I wonder if this [sort of] 'supportive' stance to Poland is meant to soften them up for other things?

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Now speaking of Jewish exploitation - An Israeli jeep flipped over and crushed a young Palestinian. It looks as though the young man's family later got a letter demanding compensation for damage to the jeep. Unbelievable.

aljazeera.com/news/2018/02/israel-demands-payment-jeep-killed-palestinian-180203140156676.html

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Well I don't think they realised Daniel's presence would lead to that at first. It could be they assumed he was just a go-between guy for Poland and Israel, to help create a better relationship and some business ties. I doubt they ever had any intention of handing over cash. In fact, who knows if this law wasn't created as a partial defence mechanism against any attempt to extract money from Poland? It could be they started to smell a rat with Daniels and Israel trying to get so cosy with them and reacted. Or it was a law they planned to make from the beginning [since they got in to power].


It's probably a law that should have been passed, at the very least, by the end of the Soviet occupation of Poland. Unfortunately we haven't had a government [including 05-07 PiS] who had the common sense to do it. Singer's words at a World Jewish Congress meeting in 1996 ['They're gonna hear from us until Poland freezes over again. If Poland does not satisfy Jewish claims it will be publicly attacked and humiliated'] should have rung alarm bells and a law like this should have been drawn up immediately, so no Jewish organisation could ever place blame on the Polish nation as a whole, in order to extract compensation. It's more difficult to demand money from a nation who was also a victim, with some bad applies in it, than one that basically took part in the Holocaust.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Another plausible sounding theory. The key and most intriguing question is who exactly sent him and what exactly his mission is.

Prediction - sent by American Jewish lobby and the main aim is to extract as much money from Poland as possible. S.447 is supposed to help with that. Many people think the Israeli outrage over the Polish law trying to 'alter the past' or 'deny the Holocaust' is just a tool for the American Jewish lobby to get their money. It's harder to get Poland to pay up if they were also victims and this law frightened the organisation into believing Poland was trying to relieve themselves of any responsibility. Of course the USA and Israel are so closely linked, that they money [if they ever got it - I hope they don't] would probably end up in the pockets of various different Jewish organisations in the USA and Israel. Of course none or very little would likely go to families of victims.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Yeah, unless those successes are by PiS.


Yep, and I'm sure a lot of folks do. It's just, TVN is a very bad one.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


The thing that annoys me about TVN is that they take an event that has happened and then tell their audience that something completely different happened.


Duda vetoing legislation? Are you referring to the veto from half a year ago that they did cover?

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

The only thing that annoys me about TVP is the almost daily 'look how well PiS is going in the ratings' and 'TVP info was the most watched news channel again.' Aside for the shameful self promotion, the news is usually more or less accurate.

TVN on the other hand, I get the impression they just make up as they go along and could spin anything, even a rabbit eating a carrot, in to how PiS is evil.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Well if you don't like being lied to, that rules TVN out.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


I suppose your friends and family watch TVN?

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Yes the main component, that is that you can't say there were Polish death camps. To be honest I'm not even sure it is the main component. I'm pretty sure it isn't even written in the law, but this law would prevent people from using that term, among other things.

He didn't however accept that Poland did not assist the Nazi Germans in carrying out the Holocaust, a false belief that this law is also aiming to fight. That's the point, they want to be able to put some of the blame on Poland as a whole, even if they accept the camps were German.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]

Hmmmm. I didn't see the full interview because I make a point of avoiding TVN24 whenever possible, but it seems his only positive comment was about that it is true the camps were German [something that is obvious]. He said nothing about accepting the IPN law or that the Polish state did not collaborate with Germany.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


When did he say that? I know he said something quite similar a while ago, about how the children in Israel need to be taught the truth that how the camps were German, but also that there was Polish collaboration with the Germans. Are you sure this is not just that statement and you have noticed it late?

After saying that he wanted to come to Poland and show proof of how the Polish people murdered Jews, so Poland told him to F off and the visit didn't happen.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]



I have heard a specific reason for this 'ceiling on recruitment of Jews' as you call it. At one stage he was being advised to take only Jews in to his army. The advisor was of course Jewish and the reason for advising him to take Jews, was so they could get the heck out of where they were, and then eventually make off to Palestine. He decided it wouldn't be fair to take just Jewish recruits [or a majority of Jews] and perhaps decided to limit the amount he did take. I never heard of this 5% cap you speak of though.


You didn't know about this? I thought it was common knowledge. It was last year in November I think, or whenever the ceremony with Holocaust survivors and representatives of the Israeli and Polish governments took place in Torun.

Type in 'PiS szabasowa kolacja' in to Google images and you will see it.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


You've named one person. This does not mean that others didn't desert the army without permission. The fact that General Anders gave instructions not to pursue them, shows good will on his side and how much of a decent guy he was.

@delph

Just to make another comment on this whole Daniels and other Israeli representatives swarming around PiS issue. Here's my theory. In my opinion, the shake up/reconstruction, in their minds, was going to be good for Jews and good for Israel. Beata Szydlo is too Polish, too patriotic and too Catholic [and has a son who is a Catholic pries too]. She's like a good patriotic Polish mother, who cares about her country. Morawiecki, in their mind, was an international man from the banking industry, easier to communicate with [since they don't speak Polish], has a Jewish aunt [that they read way too much in to] etc. They thought they could talk him in to doing more things they wanted. This is probably one of the reasons Beata Szydlo wasn't invited to this now famous meal that many PiS politicians attended [wearing yarmulkes], even though she was still the PM at the time. Morawiecki was invited though, along with some others from PiS.

I also think they expected Duda to be far more Jew-friendly too, given that his wife has a Jewish background. I think they underestimated the Catholicism, patriotism and Poland-first attitude of the government, and both Morawiecki and Duda being for this IPN anti-defamation law has surprised Daniels and co a lot. I hope it's a sign of things to come and a message to them that they won't be able to wrap the PiS politicians around their little finger, not that I would expect them to stop trying.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


Yep that's absolutely true. Anders was a good man. Even when they deserted his army [punishment for desertion would be death] Anders just decided to leave it and let them go, rather than chasing it up and punishing the for it.

Po polsku / Nocna zmiana nudnooo [427]


A szkoda. Bo juz sie przygotowywalem do zaprzyjaznienia sie z toba.

Po polsku / Nocna zmiana nudnooo [427]

Normalnie jest opcja 'attach files' i potem mozna wybrac z komputera jakies fotki. Jesli na telefonie tu jestes to nie mam pojecia. Moze byc inaczej.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1538]


You, linking to a wprawo piece delph? I didn't expect that.

As for the natemat piece, I was hoping there would be more inside information on who he might be and what other connections he really has, but I suppose that would require some hard investigative research. They have pretty much just gone through a timeline of events since he appeared in Poland - what ceremonies/events he has attended, who he has spoken with, who he seems to be spending a lot of time with, who he has attacked etc. As for him being raised in Britain and then joining the Israeli army for some time, this stuff can even be found on his website - he doesn't hide it. jonnydaniels.com/who_we_are

As you mentioned though, there is interestingly nothing on his website about any connection to Poland - yet he keeps mentioning that he is Polish. I suppose many Jews have got a Polish background, so it isn't impossible.

I think the left and right's uncertainty about him is there for different reasons. The left basically don't like him for mingling with PiS and the right. The right feel he has more of an agenda than he is showing in public and don't trust him.


Are you drawing comparisons between Hitler and PiS [or even Hitler and Trump for that matter?]. Do you believe Poland would really be a better place if it was still run by PO? There's no blame politics in Poland [as Doug suggested], just normal patriotism and protecting the country from false anti-Polish propaganda, whether from abroad or domestic.