piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
before ww2 not ww1.
hey you yourself claimed that before the WWI Poles were majority !
before ww2 not ww1.
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Before ww2, yes, before ww1, no.
The point is that it doesn't matter what way you look at the census, Poles were majority there before the WWII and that is the point.
Before ww2, yes, before ww1, no.
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Lithuanians hate Poles? [156]
I don't see why it couldn't be written.
So I understand that you could print Brzozovski instead, right ?
I don't see why it couldn't be written.
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
And what census is 100% right? If you would use 1921, then it is obvious it was "fixed", Lithuania and Poland were battling over that region in League of Nations, so the more you have your people there, the better is your claim.
Of course they had majority. Lithuanian teachers, priests imprisoned, simple lithuanian folk oppressed. What do you expect?
That would have mean that census had been falsified outright. I cannot agree with your claim. For one you have no prove to the contrary and why would they lie only in case of Lithuania ?If they (as you claim) made from 35% into-60% and from 25% or more into 3% what stop there ?
And what census is 100% right? If you would use 1921, then it is obvious it was "fixed", Lithuania and Poland were battling over that region in League of Nations, so the more you have your people there, the better is your claim.
fact that before the war Poles constituted unquestionable majority in the Wilno area.
Of course they had majority. Lithuanian teachers, priests imprisoned, simple lithuanian folk oppressed. What do you expect?
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Strong polish minority near Kaunas? Max 5%, i wouldn't give more.
Strong polish minority near Kaunas? Max 5%, i wouldn't give more.
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Lithuanians hate Poles? [156]
When independence was declared, it was common to lithuanize surnames, but still people had choice (my neighbor experienced that), few years later, no one continued that practice. If your surname is russian, it will stay the same, except for lithuanian letters.
I was just judging on the basis of the regular Lithuanian surnames (which have been in many instances just artificially Lithuanised)
When independence was declared, it was common to lithuanize surnames, but still people had choice (my neighbor experienced that), few years later, no one continued that practice. If your surname is russian, it will stay the same, except for lithuanian letters.
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Vilnius city had majority of jews (>50%) before ww1, however surrounding lands (80% of population lived NOT in cities) had more lithuanians than poles. After Zeligowski afair, number of lithuanians started to diminish due to oppression, polonisation, colonization, mass migration and other factors. No wonder lithuanians contituted minority at the start of ww2.
That area had strong lithuanian majority, so wonder there.
Even if the census was alerted in favour of Poles (which I doubt as there is no evidence to support that claim)it couldn't have been alerted too much.Lets go to the extreme and assume for the sake of the discussion that it was 10%. Still it gives 50% of Poles in the Wilno area.
Vilnius city had majority of jews (>50%) before ww1, however surrounding lands (80% of population lived NOT in cities) had more lithuanians than poles. After Zeligowski afair, number of lithuanians started to diminish due to oppression, polonisation, colonization, mass migration and other factors. No wonder lithuanians contituted minority at the start of ww2.
in Kovno that do not bother with numbers or percentages
That area had strong lithuanian majority, so wonder there.
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Lithuanians hate Poles? [156]
No one forces you to be Brazaukas, you can be Brzozovski (w is not in lithuanian aphabet). Lithuanian suffixes are not a must. I have plenty of neighbors who have their surnames ending -ski, -in, -ko and other.
No one forces you to be Brazaukas, you can be Brzozovski (w is not in lithuanian aphabet). Lithuanian suffixes are not a must. I have plenty of neighbors who have their surnames ending -ski, -in, -ko and other.
piktoonis
9 Jan 2012
History / Lithuanians hate Poles? [156]
Well, lithuanian exam has 2 parts: grammar test and interpretation. You don't have to know every literature book. Many poles have difficulties writing in lithuanian, part of them hardly speaks lithuanian. It is enough to listen to Tomasevski, his speech is far from perfect.
Fluency in given language shouldn't be seen as the ability to pass Matura exam from this language, which require additional knowledge (for example, of full spectrum of national literature) and skills, not only competence in writing and speaking in Polish/Lithuanian.
Well, lithuanian exam has 2 parts: grammar test and interpretation. You don't have to know every literature book. Many poles have difficulties writing in lithuanian, part of them hardly speaks lithuanian. It is enough to listen to Tomasevski, his speech is far from perfect.
piktoonis
9 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Not every pole is lying, only you. Did you look in to my linked material?
Not every pole is lying, only you. Did you look in to my linked material?
piktoonis
9 Jan 2012
History / Lithuanians hate Poles? [156]
Once i find a book written not by lithuanians or poles, i would post its name. You could do the same.
So i should understand this babbling as "lithuanian"?
No you prove your 25/% :DDD
Once i find a book written not by lithuanians or poles, i would post its name. You could do the same.
piktoonis: What does letuwin mean?lituwa
So i should understand this babbling as "lithuanian"?
piktoonis
9 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
I already asked him at least twice. His answer was: i know, you must find out. In short: nothing is violated, so no need for EU to interfere. ironside knows only one truth: the one that suits him and his fantasies.
Ironside, look at this: zum.de/whkmla/region/russia/xgovvilna.html, looks like third party source. Although i am sure you will start crying that it is biased :D
I already asked him at least twice. His answer was: i know, you must find out. In short: nothing is violated, so no need for EU to interfere. ironside knows only one truth: the one that suits him and his fantasies.
Ironside, look at this: zum.de/whkmla/region/russia/xgovvilna.html, looks like third party source. Although i am sure you will start crying that it is biased :D
piktoonis
9 Jan 2012
History / Lithuanians hate Poles? [156]
Prove those 3%, then babble. If you are so all knowing, why aren't you polish PM?
Describing your life, aren't you Ironside? What does letuwin mean?
instead of setting herself on grabbing the land that had about 3% of Lithuanian.
Prove those 3%, then babble. If you are so all knowing, why aren't you polish PM?
maybe you should keep you advices for yourself boozy, have you been drinking while typing? Typical letuwin rubbish cheap booze driven !
Describing your life, aren't you Ironside? What does letuwin mean?
piktoonis
9 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Denial? You are the one who use same sources that were agreed to biased when all that "discrimination" crap started, yet you use them again. Can you prove that lithuanians constituted only 6% and the rest were poles? From what i read, lithuanians were at least 25%, poles 30%, the rest were jews and belarussians. I won't bother writing the names of books, because you would start screaming that those are biased and writen by nationalists xD
You can't even write my nickname correctly, maybe you should go to school and learn a bit more.
I see you are clutching on straw as expected. No point in discussion with you.Denial and denial and there is some more denial !
Denial? You are the one who use same sources that were agreed to biased when all that "discrimination" crap started, yet you use them again. Can you prove that lithuanians constituted only 6% and the rest were poles? From what i read, lithuanians were at least 25%, poles 30%, the rest were jews and belarussians. I won't bother writing the names of books, because you would start screaming that those are biased and writen by nationalists xD
And here that dude, pictoonis
You can't even write my nickname correctly, maybe you should go to school and learn a bit more.
piktoonis
9 Jan 2012
History / Lithuanians hate Poles? [156]
He could have left those territories to Lithuania and have a friend instead of enemy. That would have benefited the whole region.
Yeah, yeah, keep babbling.
And what is the true history? History made by you?
Maybe you should go out for a bit, talk with people, see that there is world around you, not only propaganda you believe so much. Or maybe you just need a girlfriend... xDD
I truly believe Piłsudski did everything he could to prevent
He could have left those territories to Lithuania and have a friend instead of enemy. That would have benefited the whole region.
refuse to honour an agreement with Poland (from 1994).
Yeah, yeah, keep babbling.
hat would have require general change of their myths and fiction they call history.
And what is the true history? History made by you?
judging by the example of pictoonis I doubt that, he is cheeky, ignorant, lazy, stubborn and last but least he likes himself this way.
Maybe you should go out for a bit, talk with people, see that there is world around you, not only propaganda you believe so much. Or maybe you just need a girlfriend... xDD
piktoonis
9 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Nothing in article 13.
Article 14 has smth to say about use of surnames in minority language, but also states that this must be agreed in other treaties, which i know none of.
Hm, not sure about article 15. Maybe you could point me a problem?
Article 20. Poland clearly violates it. Lithuanian minority has severe lack of books, schools underfunded, no new educational books were approved for at least a year. Lithuania had to devote 300k lt to fund those schools, otherwise they would be closed.
:DD Then maybe you should use communist Poland history and claim that 1945 elections were the most democratic?
Look up, near article 20.
Article 13, 14, 15 and 20.
Nothing in article 13.
Article 14 has smth to say about use of surnames in minority language, but also states that this must be agreed in other treaties, which i know none of.
Hm, not sure about article 15. Maybe you could point me a problem?
Article 20. Poland clearly violates it. Lithuanian minority has severe lack of books, schools underfunded, no new educational books were approved for at least a year. Lithuania had to devote 300k lt to fund those schools, otherwise they would be closed.
:DD Then maybe you should use communist Poland history and claim that 1945 elections were the most democratic?
nobody deny them right to study in their own language
Look up, near article 20.
piktoonis
8 Jan 2012
History / Lithuanians hate Poles? [156]
Well, before all that "discrimination" crap started, most lithuanians were sympathetic or neutral towards poles. After Tomasevski and Sikorski show, approval went down. Say thanks to those guys.
I wish the Lithuanians were more pro-Polish :/
Well, before all that "discrimination" crap started, most lithuanians were sympathetic or neutral towards poles. After Tomasevski and Sikorski show, approval went down. Say thanks to those guys.
piktoonis
8 Jan 2012
History / Lithuanians hate Poles? [156]
Not all are fluent in lithuanian language. If they are fluent, why should they get easier exams? Thing is, they used to learn all subjects except lithuanian language in polish, while in Poland it is otherwise.
That's their choice and loss.
Not all are fluent in lithuanian language. If they are fluent, why should they get easier exams? Thing is, they used to learn all subjects except lithuanian language in polish, while in Poland it is otherwise.
piktoonis
8 Jan 2012
History / Lithuanians hate Poles? [156]
And how many would go to those courses? I guess very few
Maybe language courses for older adults would be more appropriate instead of the proposed reform?
And how many would go to those courses? I guess very few
piktoonis
8 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Ah, yes, take half sentence and make it the way it suits you. If you are so all knowing then tell us, not bask in your ignorance.
And your posts are very informative, right?
thats sums you up - either you don't know or you are faking your ignorance.It doesn't stop you from denying everything I post with the amazing cheek and firmness for somebody who - don't know.
Ah, yes, take half sentence and make it the way it suits you. If you are so all knowing then tell us, not bask in your ignorance.
IF you have a point post that , not that excuse of a post.
And your posts are very informative, right?
piktoonis
8 Jan 2012
History / Lithuanians hate Poles? [156]
And what do you think? We communicate in written form not in verbal :D
Actually, delphiandomine has point. Are there many people in Poland who refuse to learn polish and yet they live in Poland?
Can you read?
And what do you think? We communicate in written form not in verbal :D
Actually, delphiandomine has point. Are there many people in Poland who refuse to learn polish and yet they live in Poland?
piktoonis
7 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Oh, misread that one. Still throwing insults is your feat.
Well, i don't know, maybe there is nothing violated...
Lets see, one of articles in the treaty says that each country will deal with it's internal matters itself, without any influence from other country. Political pressure from Poland, demands, threats looks like intervention to other countries courtyard, or maybe i am wrong... Enlighten us oh the wisest Ironside
hat ? its wasn't addressed to you. Nice to see that you wont miss an opportunity to spout your insults one more time.
Oh, misread that one. Still throwing insults is your feat.
No, I said you tell me.
Well, i don't know, maybe there is nothing violated...
Really? Any prove of above or just more lies?By the way your state is violating at least an agreement with Poland from 1994.Do what you so the best (being stupid) and Poland will poke you with the boot.
Lets see, one of articles in the treaty says that each country will deal with it's internal matters itself, without any influence from other country. Political pressure from Poland, demands, threats looks like intervention to other countries courtyard, or maybe i am wrong... Enlighten us oh the wisest Ironside
piktoonis
6 Jan 2012
History / Lithuanians hate Poles? [156]
And which history books are not biased?
And what political party has highest influence in Vilnius region? As far as i know it is your beloved AWPL. Ask Tomaszewski where is land that poles can't get back.
To mods: This thread is intentionally created to cause hatred, please close it.
They have problems with their history books, I understand that all history books are biased in some ways but their books should be called fiction because thats what they are.
And which history books are not biased?
In Lithuania property reclaimed 90% of owners (or their progeny )and only 15% Polish owners
And what political party has highest influence in Vilnius region? As far as i know it is your beloved AWPL. Ask Tomaszewski where is land that poles can't get back.
To mods: This thread is intentionally created to cause hatred, please close it.
piktoonis
6 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Don't hide behind "facts". Your almost every comment is full of hate.
Insults and only insults. Do you have any real proof of nationalities in those regions. 1931 census doesn't count.
Then maybe you should tell us all why EU doesn't step in? Did you read said treaty? I read it all and couldn't find any article that was violated, yet Poland violated at least one (poke it's nose in Lithuania's internal matters)
What does my father have to do with you spreading hatred and lies?
You tell me in what way facts can be full of hate ? I'm all ears here!
Don't hide behind "facts". Your almost every comment is full of hate.
Do not discus with me , go and discus with facts !What a dick!
Insults and only insults. Do you have any real proof of nationalities in those regions. 1931 census doesn't count.
that for me to know and for you to find out. It is easy to be some kind arbiter here and judge all my quotes and links, time for you to do some homework.You find out why the EU did;t step in, and while you are on it find out about Lithuanian-Polish agreement from 1994 ( which Lithuania as usual do not respect),
Then maybe you should tell us all why EU doesn't step in? Did you read said treaty? I read it all and couldn't find any article that was violated, yet Poland violated at least one (poke it's nose in Lithuania's internal matters)
By the way was your father around much when you were growing up?
What does my father have to do with you spreading hatred and lies?
piktoonis
6 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
I wonder, if stated facts are true, then why didn't EU step in?
there you go kurierwilenski.lt/porownanie-sytuacji-polakow-na-litwie-i-litwinow-w-polsce/
I wonder, if stated facts are true, then why didn't EU step in?
piktoonis
6 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Same old song, still full of hate towards lithuanians.
Nothing new, when out of ideas, start insulting others and falsify history.
don't you be smartie here, they do not have the same rights.
Same old song, still full of hate towards lithuanians.
since when the truth is a smear campaign ? The point here is that Lithuania after WWI wanted those territories where Lithuanian ethnicity was almost non existent. Your history books and you are taking nonsense and rubbish and you think that you making some points here ?
Nothing new, when out of ideas, start insulting others and falsify history.
piktoonis
3 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
I looked in to that division and was composed of people from various eastern region you call Kresy. However before Suwalki treaty it suffered heavy casualties and many replacements came from Poland. So it was Lithuanian-Belarusian only on paper. Interesting fact, that some who where from Vilnius district and found out that they were going against Lithuania, they deserted. Any other information is scarce and misleading.
The only cooperation i know is transit rights through territory that Lithuania gained after Lithuania-Soviet peace treaty. No direct military action or any support against Poland. Speaking of sneaky, Poland showed that no one can best her there.
No one is stopping. They already have them.
Maybe if you stopped your smear campaigns, everyone would be happy?
the key is a place of birth.
I looked in to that division and was composed of people from various eastern region you call Kresy. However before Suwalki treaty it suffered heavy casualties and many replacements came from Poland. So it was Lithuanian-Belarusian only on paper. Interesting fact, that some who where from Vilnius district and found out that they were going against Lithuania, they deserted. Any other information is scarce and misleading.
I don't know what you are following but definitely it is not logic. Lithuania was cooperating with Soviets its worse than formal alliance its sneaky.
The only cooperation i know is transit rights through territory that Lithuania gained after Lithuania-Soviet peace treaty. No direct military action or any support against Poland. Speaking of sneaky, Poland showed that no one can best her there.
What is stopping Lithuania from granting to Poles the same rights Lithuanian have in Poland already?
No one is stopping. They already have them.
What are you doing here ? In this thread ?
Maybe if you stopped your smear campaigns, everyone would be happy?
piktoonis
3 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
I don't have the names, do you have them? From what i found it had mostly poles. So naming it Lithuanian-belarusian is for propaganda only.
Did Lithuania sign military alliance with Soviet Russia and attacked Poland? Following your logic, then Poland got what it deserved at the begining of ww2.
Only Russia and Poland claim that Lithuania violates minority rights. if it were true, EU would have intervened, yet we heard nothing. You can say what you want, but Poland is
far from perfect in granting rights for minorities.
Of course, how could Poland be wrong :D
Really ? Do you have anything to prove your claim, I mean the list of soldiers from said division and their place of birth. That would be easy to verify.
I don't have the names, do you have them? From what i found it had mostly poles. So naming it Lithuanian-belarusian is for propaganda only.
Lithuania was in concert with the Red Army which Poland was fighting. You deserved whatever was coming, you choose the side !
Did Lithuania sign military alliance with Soviet Russia and attacked Poland? Following your logic, then Poland got what it deserved at the begining of ww2.
What Russia has to do with this ?Lithuanian minority in Poland has certain rights granted to them by Poland. On the other hand Polish minority in Lithuania doesn't enjoy the same right.What the EU has to do with that ? Do you have to be told or ordered to do the right thing?
Only Russia and Poland claim that Lithuania violates minority rights. if it were true, EU would have intervened, yet we heard nothing. You can say what you want, but Poland is
far from perfect in granting rights for minorities.
Nope that was and is a speciality of the western powers.
Of course, how could Poland be wrong :D
piktoonis
3 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Locals, right... it was polish division renamed to be "locals", that was used to back stab Lithuania.
Because you are repeating the same what Russia's and Poland's foreign ministries say, while EU finds no problems.
Most of the division had been locals as well, they have been supported by uncontested majority of population there.
Locals, right... it was polish division renamed to be "locals", that was used to back stab Lithuania.
Why ?because I do not agree with you ?
Because you are repeating the same what Russia's and Poland's foreign ministries say, while EU finds no problems.