piktoonis
20 Mar 2012
piktoonis
30 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
It is not interwar era. No polish leader would be dumb enough to try to change borders, because it would cause a lot of undesirable effects and destabilize whole region. In short, Poland would have nothing to gain, only to lose.
We have a whole arsenal of measures which could be used.
It is not interwar era. No polish leader would be dumb enough to try to change borders, because it would cause a lot of undesirable effects and destabilize whole region. In short, Poland would have nothing to gain, only to lose.
piktoonis
30 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Or will ruin Poland's prestige. Vilnius will stay in Lithuania, of that i am certain.
Or will ruin Poland's prestige. Vilnius will stay in Lithuania, of that i am certain.
piktoonis
30 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
And then they wonder why there are so many who dislikes poles...
Poland needs a strong leader to show Lithuanians their place like in 1938.We should close the border with them to teach them a lesson.
And then they wonder why there are so many who dislikes poles...
piktoonis
29 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
That's because there weren't anything major. A window broken here and there, someone got beaten. But that happens all the time everywhere. Those signs and monuments were something new.
xDDD
never heard of that - yes there were news that some idiots painted Lithuanian monuments with spray paint - but never heard of any personal attacks - and you know some (like most) Polish media are rather anti-nationalistic and we would have heard about it
That's because there weren't anything major. A window broken here and there, someone got beaten. But that happens all the time everywhere. Those signs and monuments were something new.
is not that they are lying trough their teeth, they are just living in a different dimension.
xDDD
piktoonis
29 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
It happens all the time, many years before this "discrimination" crap. Usually it was windows of lithuanian schools or culture buildings. Now polish radicals took more offensive stance.
Lithuanians thought so too. Before this crap, my stance was friendly, but after reading comments from Sikorski, Tomasevski or people like you, it is not so good anymore. As always, only lithuanians are to blame, nothing new from ironside.
When? How many times? Which places?
After all that hassle with Lithuanians ! All that are fruits of your policy.
It happens all the time, many years before this "discrimination" crap. Usually it was windows of lithuanian schools or culture buildings. Now polish radicals took more offensive stance.
You seem to be not able to grasp a simple fact that people in Poland regarded Lithuania and Lithuanians as friends. That has changed due to your actions.
Lithuanians thought so too. Before this crap, my stance was friendly, but after reading comments from Sikorski, Tomasevski or people like you, it is not so good anymore. As always, only lithuanians are to blame, nothing new from ironside.
Yes I have.
When? How many times? Which places?
piktoonis
29 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
I don't get it. Lithuania issues education law that is present in Poland for 10 years. All the fuss was only election show. If you still don't understand, then you are simply brainwashed. Have you been to Lithuania, talked with people living there? Or is your information come from Wilenskij Kurier?
Lithuanian signs, monuments vandalized, people afraid to speak lithuanian due to constant harassment. Enough?
You keep saying that, but will this happen? xD
I don't get it. Lithuania issues education law that is present in Poland for 10 years. All the fuss was only election show. If you still don't understand, then you are simply brainwashed. Have you been to Lithuania, talked with people living there? Or is your information come from Wilenskij Kurier?
Any examples ?
Lithuanian signs, monuments vandalized, people afraid to speak lithuanian due to constant harassment. Enough?
Don't be saying then that you haven't been warned !
You keep saying that, but will this happen? xD
piktoonis
29 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Know a country where racial or nationalistic attacks are absent? Poland is definitely not an exception. As i said before, if there were some standards violated, EU would have stepped immediately. So stop crying, nothing will come of that.
Know a country where racial or nationalistic attacks are absent? Poland is definitely not an exception. As i said before, if there were some standards violated, EU would have stepped immediately. So stop crying, nothing will come of that.
piktoonis
29 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Anyone who is not in AWPL
I wasn't beaten, but still encounter was unpleasant. And yes, they tried to beat me because i spoke in lithuanian and didn't share cigaretes.
Says who?
Anyone who is not in AWPL
Have you been beaten up senseless for speaking Lithuanian ? I don't think so.
I wasn't beaten, but still encounter was unpleasant. And yes, they tried to beat me because i spoke in lithuanian and didn't share cigaretes.
piktoonis
29 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
They have rights, they want privileges. Simply put, they want too much. Are you so narrowminded? Elections in Poland ended, your politicians don't care about poles in Lithuania anymore
Maybe you should show me how xD
I am not sitting in this forum every free minute, i have better things to do.
I live near the lake, where in summer are a lot of people. I was attacked twice by drunk teenagers, who were speaking polish. Should we now shout that lithuanians are in danger?
The same goes for Lithuania if they would grant all rights (call it privileges if you like) to Polish minority, there would be no demands.
They have rights, they want privileges. Simply put, they want too much. Are you so narrowminded? Elections in Poland ended, your politicians don't care about poles in Lithuania anymore
Stop meddling about and start behaving like a grow-up!
Maybe you should show me how xD
A cat got your tongue or what? Another fact for you to deny.
I am not sitting in this forum every free minute, i have better things to do.
A sixteen years old boy have been brutally beaten up by a group of men. He and his friends have been attacked because they were speaking Polish.
I live near the lake, where in summer are a lot of people. I was attacked twice by drunk teenagers, who were speaking polish. Should we now shout that lithuanians are in danger?
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
But that is direct violation of Lithuania-Poland good neighborhood treaty. What if Germany start throwing threats and demands to Poland because "german minority is discriminated"? No doubt Poland would be furious. All that fuss about polish minority in Lithuania is because polish minority lost some privileges and local politicians decided to get cheap fame at the cost of whole minority. Same is with Poland's politicians.
Nowadays are not 30' of the XX century. Having large minorities in your country is only natural that there will be interventions and possibly repercussion of your internal policy - don't be so touchy! Somebody could assume that you have something to hide!
But that is direct violation of Lithuania-Poland good neighborhood treaty. What if Germany start throwing threats and demands to Poland because "german minority is discriminated"? No doubt Poland would be furious. All that fuss about polish minority in Lithuania is because polish minority lost some privileges and local politicians decided to get cheap fame at the cost of whole minority. Same is with Poland's politicians.
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Showed on the news, wrote in newspaper and net was full of comments, one of my friend's work is near by, so he shared impressions. One episode in the news: journalist comes near a couple of children who hold a poster written in polish. He asks them what are they protesting against. They answer that they were offered opportunity to visit Vilnius, but now they are here, although don't know why.
Showed on the news, wrote in newspaper and net was full of comments, one of my friend's work is near by, so he shared impressions. One episode in the news: journalist comes near a couple of children who hold a poster written in polish. He asks them what are they protesting against. They answer that they were offered opportunity to visit Vilnius, but now they are here, although don't know why.
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Yes, some make waves. But it is mostly nationalists or politicians like Tomasevski. But stick has two ends. His allies are now abandoning him, because he does nothing but causes hatred. Every country has it's internal problems, so there is no need to intervene in to neighbors backyard. It only makes worse.
There was a project to create a state with Belarus, but politicians had disagreements, then came soviets and all ended.
Also, did you know that when AWPL made protest in september, children were brought and used for propaganda purposes. Most of them even didn't know why they came there.
Yes, some make waves. But it is mostly nationalists or politicians like Tomasevski. But stick has two ends. His allies are now abandoning him, because he does nothing but causes hatred. Every country has it's internal problems, so there is no need to intervene in to neighbors backyard. It only makes worse.
The interesting thing is that Vilnius/Wilno/Вiльня was also claimed as part of an independent Belarus in 1918.Belarusians could have argued that they were a majority/plurality in the area surrounding the city - according to the Russian census from 1897, they were 56,1% of population in Vilna Governorate.
There was a project to create a state with Belarus, but politicians had disagreements, then came soviets and all ended.
Also, did you know that when AWPL made protest in september, children were brought and used for propaganda purposes. Most of them even didn't know why they came there.
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Look, we can argue about who was majority for whole eternity. I use my books, you use yours. How it was really, i doubt we will ever know for sure. Those times were dark and history was written by those who controlled the land. Fact is, Vilnius is now in Lithuania. As for "discrimination", it is only used when elections are happening. Just look how it got silent, once elections ended in Poland. Apart from Sikorski, nobody gives a damn.
Look, we can argue about who was majority for whole eternity. I use my books, you use yours. How it was really, i doubt we will ever know for sure. Those times were dark and history was written by those who controlled the land. Fact is, Vilnius is now in Lithuania. As for "discrimination", it is only used when elections are happening. Just look how it got silent, once elections ended in Poland. Apart from Sikorski, nobody gives a damn.
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
before ww2 not ww1.
hey you yourself claimed that before the WWI Poles were majority !
before ww2 not ww1.
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Before ww2, yes, before ww1, no.
The point is that it doesn't matter what way you look at the census, Poles were majority there before the WWII and that is the point.
Before ww2, yes, before ww1, no.
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
And what census is 100% right? If you would use 1921, then it is obvious it was "fixed", Lithuania and Poland were battling over that region in League of Nations, so the more you have your people there, the better is your claim.
Of course they had majority. Lithuanian teachers, priests imprisoned, simple lithuanian folk oppressed. What do you expect?
That would have mean that census had been falsified outright. I cannot agree with your claim. For one you have no prove to the contrary and why would they lie only in case of Lithuania ?If they (as you claim) made from 35% into-60% and from 25% or more into 3% what stop there ?
And what census is 100% right? If you would use 1921, then it is obvious it was "fixed", Lithuania and Poland were battling over that region in League of Nations, so the more you have your people there, the better is your claim.
fact that before the war Poles constituted unquestionable majority in the Wilno area.
Of course they had majority. Lithuanian teachers, priests imprisoned, simple lithuanian folk oppressed. What do you expect?
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Strong polish minority near Kaunas? Max 5%, i wouldn't give more.
Strong polish minority near Kaunas? Max 5%, i wouldn't give more.
piktoonis
10 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Vilnius city had majority of jews (>50%) before ww1, however surrounding lands (80% of population lived NOT in cities) had more lithuanians than poles. After Zeligowski afair, number of lithuanians started to diminish due to oppression, polonisation, colonization, mass migration and other factors. No wonder lithuanians contituted minority at the start of ww2.
That area had strong lithuanian majority, so wonder there.
Even if the census was alerted in favour of Poles (which I doubt as there is no evidence to support that claim)it couldn't have been alerted too much.Lets go to the extreme and assume for the sake of the discussion that it was 10%. Still it gives 50% of Poles in the Wilno area.
Vilnius city had majority of jews (>50%) before ww1, however surrounding lands (80% of population lived NOT in cities) had more lithuanians than poles. After Zeligowski afair, number of lithuanians started to diminish due to oppression, polonisation, colonization, mass migration and other factors. No wonder lithuanians contituted minority at the start of ww2.
in Kovno that do not bother with numbers or percentages
That area had strong lithuanian majority, so wonder there.
piktoonis
9 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Not every pole is lying, only you. Did you look in to my linked material?
Not every pole is lying, only you. Did you look in to my linked material?
piktoonis
9 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
I already asked him at least twice. His answer was: i know, you must find out. In short: nothing is violated, so no need for EU to interfere. ironside knows only one truth: the one that suits him and his fantasies.
Ironside, look at this: zum.de/whkmla/region/russia/xgovvilna.html, looks like third party source. Although i am sure you will start crying that it is biased :D
I already asked him at least twice. His answer was: i know, you must find out. In short: nothing is violated, so no need for EU to interfere. ironside knows only one truth: the one that suits him and his fantasies.
Ironside, look at this: zum.de/whkmla/region/russia/xgovvilna.html, looks like third party source. Although i am sure you will start crying that it is biased :D
piktoonis
9 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Denial? You are the one who use same sources that were agreed to biased when all that "discrimination" crap started, yet you use them again. Can you prove that lithuanians constituted only 6% and the rest were poles? From what i read, lithuanians were at least 25%, poles 30%, the rest were jews and belarussians. I won't bother writing the names of books, because you would start screaming that those are biased and writen by nationalists xD
You can't even write my nickname correctly, maybe you should go to school and learn a bit more.
I see you are clutching on straw as expected. No point in discussion with you.Denial and denial and there is some more denial !
Denial? You are the one who use same sources that were agreed to biased when all that "discrimination" crap started, yet you use them again. Can you prove that lithuanians constituted only 6% and the rest were poles? From what i read, lithuanians were at least 25%, poles 30%, the rest were jews and belarussians. I won't bother writing the names of books, because you would start screaming that those are biased and writen by nationalists xD
And here that dude, pictoonis
You can't even write my nickname correctly, maybe you should go to school and learn a bit more.
piktoonis
9 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Nothing in article 13.
Article 14 has smth to say about use of surnames in minority language, but also states that this must be agreed in other treaties, which i know none of.
Hm, not sure about article 15. Maybe you could point me a problem?
Article 20. Poland clearly violates it. Lithuanian minority has severe lack of books, schools underfunded, no new educational books were approved for at least a year. Lithuania had to devote 300k lt to fund those schools, otherwise they would be closed.
:DD Then maybe you should use communist Poland history and claim that 1945 elections were the most democratic?
Look up, near article 20.
Article 13, 14, 15 and 20.
Nothing in article 13.
Article 14 has smth to say about use of surnames in minority language, but also states that this must be agreed in other treaties, which i know none of.
Hm, not sure about article 15. Maybe you could point me a problem?
Article 20. Poland clearly violates it. Lithuanian minority has severe lack of books, schools underfunded, no new educational books were approved for at least a year. Lithuania had to devote 300k lt to fund those schools, otherwise they would be closed.
:DD Then maybe you should use communist Poland history and claim that 1945 elections were the most democratic?
nobody deny them right to study in their own language
Look up, near article 20.
piktoonis
8 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Ah, yes, take half sentence and make it the way it suits you. If you are so all knowing then tell us, not bask in your ignorance.
And your posts are very informative, right?
thats sums you up - either you don't know or you are faking your ignorance.It doesn't stop you from denying everything I post with the amazing cheek and firmness for somebody who - don't know.
Ah, yes, take half sentence and make it the way it suits you. If you are so all knowing then tell us, not bask in your ignorance.
IF you have a point post that , not that excuse of a post.
And your posts are very informative, right?
piktoonis
7 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Oh, misread that one. Still throwing insults is your feat.
Well, i don't know, maybe there is nothing violated...
Lets see, one of articles in the treaty says that each country will deal with it's internal matters itself, without any influence from other country. Political pressure from Poland, demands, threats looks like intervention to other countries courtyard, or maybe i am wrong... Enlighten us oh the wisest Ironside
hat ? its wasn't addressed to you. Nice to see that you wont miss an opportunity to spout your insults one more time.
Oh, misread that one. Still throwing insults is your feat.
No, I said you tell me.
Well, i don't know, maybe there is nothing violated...
Really? Any prove of above or just more lies?By the way your state is violating at least an agreement with Poland from 1994.Do what you so the best (being stupid) and Poland will poke you with the boot.
Lets see, one of articles in the treaty says that each country will deal with it's internal matters itself, without any influence from other country. Political pressure from Poland, demands, threats looks like intervention to other countries courtyard, or maybe i am wrong... Enlighten us oh the wisest Ironside
piktoonis
6 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Don't hide behind "facts". Your almost every comment is full of hate.
Insults and only insults. Do you have any real proof of nationalities in those regions. 1931 census doesn't count.
Then maybe you should tell us all why EU doesn't step in? Did you read said treaty? I read it all and couldn't find any article that was violated, yet Poland violated at least one (poke it's nose in Lithuania's internal matters)
What does my father have to do with you spreading hatred and lies?
You tell me in what way facts can be full of hate ? I'm all ears here!
Don't hide behind "facts". Your almost every comment is full of hate.
Do not discus with me , go and discus with facts !What a dick!
Insults and only insults. Do you have any real proof of nationalities in those regions. 1931 census doesn't count.
that for me to know and for you to find out. It is easy to be some kind arbiter here and judge all my quotes and links, time for you to do some homework.You find out why the EU did;t step in, and while you are on it find out about Lithuanian-Polish agreement from 1994 ( which Lithuania as usual do not respect),
Then maybe you should tell us all why EU doesn't step in? Did you read said treaty? I read it all and couldn't find any article that was violated, yet Poland violated at least one (poke it's nose in Lithuania's internal matters)
By the way was your father around much when you were growing up?
What does my father have to do with you spreading hatred and lies?
piktoonis
6 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
I wonder, if stated facts are true, then why didn't EU step in?
there you go kurierwilenski.lt/porownanie-sytuacji-polakow-na-litwie-i-litwinow-w-polsce/
I wonder, if stated facts are true, then why didn't EU step in?
piktoonis
6 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
Same old song, still full of hate towards lithuanians.
Nothing new, when out of ideas, start insulting others and falsify history.
don't you be smartie here, they do not have the same rights.
Same old song, still full of hate towards lithuanians.
since when the truth is a smear campaign ? The point here is that Lithuania after WWI wanted those territories where Lithuanian ethnicity was almost non existent. Your history books and you are taking nonsense and rubbish and you think that you making some points here ?
Nothing new, when out of ideas, start insulting others and falsify history.
piktoonis
3 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
I looked in to that division and was composed of people from various eastern region you call Kresy. However before Suwalki treaty it suffered heavy casualties and many replacements came from Poland. So it was Lithuanian-Belarusian only on paper. Interesting fact, that some who where from Vilnius district and found out that they were going against Lithuania, they deserted. Any other information is scarce and misleading.
The only cooperation i know is transit rights through territory that Lithuania gained after Lithuania-Soviet peace treaty. No direct military action or any support against Poland. Speaking of sneaky, Poland showed that no one can best her there.
No one is stopping. They already have them.
Maybe if you stopped your smear campaigns, everyone would be happy?
the key is a place of birth.
I looked in to that division and was composed of people from various eastern region you call Kresy. However before Suwalki treaty it suffered heavy casualties and many replacements came from Poland. So it was Lithuanian-Belarusian only on paper. Interesting fact, that some who where from Vilnius district and found out that they were going against Lithuania, they deserted. Any other information is scarce and misleading.
I don't know what you are following but definitely it is not logic. Lithuania was cooperating with Soviets its worse than formal alliance its sneaky.
The only cooperation i know is transit rights through territory that Lithuania gained after Lithuania-Soviet peace treaty. No direct military action or any support against Poland. Speaking of sneaky, Poland showed that no one can best her there.
What is stopping Lithuania from granting to Poles the same rights Lithuanian have in Poland already?
No one is stopping. They already have them.
What are you doing here ? In this thread ?
Maybe if you stopped your smear campaigns, everyone would be happy?
piktoonis
3 Jan 2012
History / Mother tongue in Poland - acccording to 1931 census. [174]
I don't have the names, do you have them? From what i found it had mostly poles. So naming it Lithuanian-belarusian is for propaganda only.
Did Lithuania sign military alliance with Soviet Russia and attacked Poland? Following your logic, then Poland got what it deserved at the begining of ww2.
Only Russia and Poland claim that Lithuania violates minority rights. if it were true, EU would have intervened, yet we heard nothing. You can say what you want, but Poland is
far from perfect in granting rights for minorities.
Of course, how could Poland be wrong :D
Really ? Do you have anything to prove your claim, I mean the list of soldiers from said division and their place of birth. That would be easy to verify.
I don't have the names, do you have them? From what i found it had mostly poles. So naming it Lithuanian-belarusian is for propaganda only.
Lithuania was in concert with the Red Army which Poland was fighting. You deserved whatever was coming, you choose the side !
Did Lithuania sign military alliance with Soviet Russia and attacked Poland? Following your logic, then Poland got what it deserved at the begining of ww2.
What Russia has to do with this ?Lithuanian minority in Poland has certain rights granted to them by Poland. On the other hand Polish minority in Lithuania doesn't enjoy the same right.What the EU has to do with that ? Do you have to be told or ordered to do the right thing?
Only Russia and Poland claim that Lithuania violates minority rights. if it were true, EU would have intervened, yet we heard nothing. You can say what you want, but Poland is
far from perfect in granting rights for minorities.
Nope that was and is a speciality of the western powers.
Of course, how could Poland be wrong :D