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Polish historical myths - to break or not to break them? [257]
Monia:You have just answered yourself , they didn`t need a back armour , because the wings attached protected them from back cutting
Nice try, but no. Hussars were the elite force, professionals, they had enough money to buy or fashion any weapon and armour currently available. Or they went to pancerni, a.k.a. kozacy a.k.a. zaporożcy. A wooden pole is no match to a metal rod, price difference laughable if you consider an armour plate, szabla, koncerz, pistols, and, last but not least, a hussar horse.
They didn't need the back armour, because they were hardly ever pursued, Monia...
Monia:You should read some historical books about Tatars fighting methods , they were using lassos , in fact .
They did, but not against hussars. Against hussars their only possible engagement methods were to shoot an avalanche of arrows from distance and flee, or to stand fast en masse against the hussar charge and hope to just drown them with the sheer weight of numbers.
The weight difference solves the issue for me, even if we would imagine a Tartar having enough gall and time to lasso a hussar. Seen how the cowboys lassoed cattle? Usually the lasso is tied to the saddle. Loop goes over the cows neck, the horse is prompted to turn around and pull in the other direction - or the risk is that it topples over, as a running cow is about as heavy as a mounted cowboy. And it's running madly. Now imagine a small man on a small horse trying to halt a big man in heavy armour, securely seated on a heavy horse.
Tartars used a different kind of lasso anyway. It was a longish pole with a loop at the end. Easier to catch the objective, more difficult to keep hold of it.
The only scenario I can imagine is Tartars pursuing hussar fugitives, exhausted, disarmed, possibly wounded, after an unsuccessful battle. Now tell me the elite force, the proudest formation of the whole Res Publica habitually bears on its back this symbol of cowardice. OhKey, we are going to charge those half-size mongrels, better have some fancy way to avoid being caught by them after they beat the holy crap out of us. How about a wooden stick with feathers on it.
I am guessing this interpretation is by some contemporary western experts on cavalry. Those who ridiculed the 'impossible' effectiveness of kopia and effectiveness of an actual charge, and imagined both a Tartar and a hussar as just a foreign rajtar in a fancy dress.
gumishu:pulling from the back is I guess considerably more effective in dismounting any rider then pushing from the front - in case of pushing from the front the body automatically reacts to oppose, a reaction which is not present in puling from behind
Pure physics says you are wrong. But you have a point - while thrusting a kopia against a target a hussar is ready to take the impact and to act against it, and if suddenly pulled from behind he might be unsaddled easier. Still, this doesn't fit the reality of a hussar-Tartar encounter - how come there's a cavorting Tartar behind a hussar, still with his lasso, and undisturbed enough to use it.
everything can happen in the course of, of course, but it's not any reason for the whole army to take serious measures against it.
gumishu:there is also a difference in where the force is applied - lassoe can catch the upper part of the body (including the head only which is very dangerous) - in all I believe lassoing is a very effective way of dismounting (and consequently harming) a rider of any kind (especially pulling from behind) and thus very dangerous
First thing is you need to contemplate using a lasso at all. A hussar regiment was not a herd of cattle, and they had projectile weapons too, and firearms as well, and were eager to charge. Cant' see a Tartar czambuł circling a bewildered hussars at close range and picking them one by one with lassoes.
Anyway, I can't really see how the wings protected against this hypothetical lasso. After the loop has fallen low enough, I just pull it and don't bother if I got a a hussar with wings or wingless.
