Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

Antek, if you want to post something, you need to start making more sense.

do you mean that your four computers should offset three other households' lack of such a basic tool? so if you have one SUV per village, do you count it as five regular cars? if your neighbor goes on a two-week vacation, is it the same as if he went away for one week, and you went away for the other? I guess you could say your four computers and your vet's SUV double your national durable goods index.

you can deny it all you want, but apparently most of your fellow countrypeeps don't feel like they're rolling in it...

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

wow, 4 computers per household? awesome. I'm totally floored, Z, you're so smart! This totally proves that the Statistical Office data is completely wrong!

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

you're not making any sense, Antek. are you asking about the methodology of the surveys? have a look, it's a statistically validated random-sampling survey, it's all explained there. or are you trying to say they faked all the thousands of questionnaires?

it's your own government that collected and published the data, not the CIA, or some other American imperialistic conspiracy to make you feel bad...

the cover page also says they welcome suggestions, so go ahead, give them a call.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


I guess you need to take it up with your central statistical office. the data was from 2009, published in 2011:

stat.gov.pl/cps/rde/xbcr/gus/PUBL_wz_dochody_i_warunki_zycia-rap_2009.pdf

that included samples from all generations, all types of incomes (workers, self-employed, pensioners, etc.), towns of all sizes, rural areas, households of 1 to 6+, degree of urbanization, educational background, all regions, so I'd say it's pretty representative

and since the data was anonymous, like the census, I don't see what it has to do with taxes, and why would it benefit the respondents to grossly underestimate their means, and why it would be such a wide-spread, nationwide phenomenon that everyone lies?

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


most people did say just that, to your own statisticians. The surveys didn't ask, Hey, average Pole, what's your GDP, or PPP? They asked, Do you feel like you can afford to live on your income, and an overwhelming majority said no.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

ok, who cares, there's been a whole generation that grew up since Poland has been "freed" and there's been little progress...

now, interestingly enough, the Polish national bureau of statistics publishes their findings about the living conditions both in Polish and in English.

here's what you can read if you care to scroll to Table 32 - Self-Evaluation of the Households Financial Conditions

- 51.9% of households cannot cover unexpected expenses of 680PLN from their own resources

- 15.7% make ends meet with great difficulty, 20.1% with difficulty, 34.3% with some difficulty

- 60.4% declares no fiancial possibility of going away for one week of family vacation

- 18.8% cannot afford to have a meal with meat or fish every day

- 26.4% cannot keep home adequately warm

- 38.5% cannot buy quality clothing

in addition, there are still people who do not have running water at home, flushing toilets, baths or showers.

just over 50% of households have a dvd, and just under 60% have a computer or a car

about 25% have difficulty with accessing banking or postal services

22% cannot afford leisure activities that involve spending money (cinemas, concerts)

19% cannot spend a small amount of money on themselves without consequences

14% cannot afford to replace worn-out clothing

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]

well, I'm happy to discuss what's key or not, or what's the significance of the car sales, or cemetery plot sales, or mosquito bite indexes, but what does it have to do with the topic?

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


true. so is the "Lipstick Indicator."

but one, car sales are not intended to tell you anything about the wealth of the population, unlike the PPP, e.g., and two, it has nothing to do with the cost of the cars: a new, top of the line $90K cadillac is counted as one, just like a $12K kia.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


LMAO!!! since when is the model of your car an economic indicator? How about we compare toasters? 'cause I have a pretty nice one, with a setting for large bagels... Our mower is kinda crappy, though, so I hope we're not comparing those...

how about the percentage of income spent on food?
how about the number of dwellings per 1,000 people?
purchasing power parity?
percentage of population living under national poverty line?

Nah, let's just go by the car preferences of vets. Because I would really hate to see your car observations fade into statistical insignificance...

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


lol, all over the place!

who cares about cars? what's the Polish people's obsession about cars? Anyone we meet from Poland always wants to know what cars we have.

A car is not a status symbol anywhere (well, I guess in Poland it is). Our receptionist drives a BMW (and no, she does not have a wealthy husband, or parents, she lives by herself). Our CFO drives an old beat-up chevy, and he's making multiple times what she is. Our landscape guy drives a $60K truck. We bought a brand-new Chrysler right after high-school. Now we have cars that are less flashy but more efficient, even though we could afford something much bigger. How exactly does it matter?

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


dope, you make so little sense, it's heartbreaking...

ok, so some criminals smuggle cigarettes across the border. make up your mind, is it entrepreneurship or criminal activity? apparently you think it's a great way to make extra money. I think it's criminal at worst, and embarrassing at the very, very generous best.

I'm not looking down on people who try to make extra money, dope. I'm saying that spending all your weekends on a questionable activity for the kind of money that most people would consider quite modest speaks to the fact that Poles are not wealthy, and the situation where you need to be that "enterprising" to get a just little bit of extra disposable income is quite telling about the lack of opportunities of making a comfortable living in Poland. And by comfortable, I mean above satisfying the basic needs of housing, clothing, food, medical care, schooling and transportation.


and how is that relevant?


Yes. so i gather a doctor can't make decent money working at a state hospital or clinic in Poland. The fact that they need to work essentially two jobs actually goes against your point. And it's not that people are "willing" to go to see their doctor in their private practice, it's that they don't have a choice, because it takes weeks or months to see a specialist at a state hospital. So you literally have to be retired or unemployed to spend hours waiting in lines at the state clinic. This is pretty grotesque, and very far from what people would normally consider a comfortable standard of living.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


how about having a job that pays decent money so you don't have to sacrifice 8 days a month to make an extra $650?

Not sure what side businesses doctors in Poland tend to have... Not sure if I want to know, either.

You can't tell me or any reasonable person that wasting 8 days on a pretty embarrassing activity for $650 is worth it, unless you're really desperate.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


you need to make the correction for any country, unreported income is not a Polish invention.

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


that's what the Indians said about glass beads...

really, it's not business, though. it's a crude means for people to eke out their income by sacrificing weekends and time off from their day jobs, which pay insufficient wages, in order to make ends meet.

if someone didn't know one thing about Poland, and simply assumed it's just a European country of average wealth, this one post would convince them it's not. also the post about whether wealth can measured based on what car you drive. or the contents of your fridge...

Life / Who is poor in Poland? [720]


LOL, dope, are you for real? Are you saying that people in Poland are rich in reality because they can sell cigarettes or vodka to Germans?

Are you seriously not seeing anything wrong with that picture?

Off-Topic / How do Polish people operate? what makes them tick? [103]


c'mon, that's Havok's quote...

Off-Topic / How do Polish people operate? what makes them tick? [103]


haha!

Off-Topic / How do Polish people operate? what makes them tick? [103]

Hallelujah! Praise god for Z-Darius and PF because otherwise 400 million Americans would still be living in ignorance... And just in time, too, since the world is ending tomorrow!

You know nothing about this country, except what you hear in the media. You are the one who keeps popping the Blue Pill...

Feel free to keep repeating the sound bites about invading countries, media brainwashing, oil, blah blah blah, I honestly don't give a crap what someone like you thinks. The fact is that there are so many diverse people, and opinions, and lifestyles, and viewpoints, and ideas, and convictions, that all your trite generalizations can never be true, and you won't even scratch the surface of the diversity of this country until you have lived here for a while (and not in a "Little Poland").

Off-Topic / How do Polish people operate? what makes them tick? [103]


This has to be today's record of packing as much BS into two sentences as possible, and I don't think anyone could reasonably dignify this with a response.

I will, however, point out the template behind your typical response, which can be paraphrased into "Even though I don't understand what you guys are saying, you're saying something critical about Poland so I'm going to respond with, America sucks, too."

And not that there are no reasons to criticize America, but the stuff that you invariably come up with is never insightful, never accurate, just the same stuff, repeated over and over, without any reflection or concern for truth.

Off-Topic / How do Polish people operate? what makes them tick? [103]


You have it backwards. You won't find Americans playing the victim card.

"What is rather odder is that praising Poland can go down badly too. A mild remark about the variety and excellence of the country's media or the growing strength of its private sector can be taken as being insensitive to poverty, unemployment and the inadequacy of public services, let alone the country's historical tragedies."

You won't find that in America, either.

Off-Topic / How do Polish people operate? what makes them tick? [103]


or we can say something that doesn't offer consolation but let's them see the reality in a proper perspective. Poles have historically had the mindset of a victim nation, with the Partitions, and the two world wars, it keeps coming up over and over again, both in Polish foreign relations as well as the attitudes of regular people. Is it fair that Germans witness the struggle of Polish immigrants from the comfort of their high standard of living while the Poles are busy cleaning rooms or plucking strawberries? No. But if the martyr-pose of Polish people causes them to resent all richer nations, and particularly Poles who have moved there and are somehow not at the bottom of the society (which you can see evidenced on this form every hour of every day), then rather than being offered kind words, they should be slapped into reality.

Off-Topic / How do Polish people operate? what makes them tick? [103]

POLAND is a country that foreigners criticise at their peril. Even the mildest mention of habitual unpunctuality, brusque telephone manners or bad roads can prompt a lengthy and emotional review of the outside world's insensitive and ignorant attitude to the country's tragic history.

(2006)

economist/node/6875791

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Life / IS Poland in danger of becoming the next multi cultural sink hole? [201]

ok, let me ask you about Russians in the UK then. Are they welcome there? Is their culture treated as equal by the locals?

Life / IS Poland in danger of becoming the next multi cultural sink hole? [201]

how many of those do you have in Poland?

what would you say about Poles going to live in the UK? is it enrichment or contamination?

Life / IS Poland in danger of becoming the next multi cultural sink hole? [201]

So if foreigners, when they come to Poland, "contaminate" the Polish culture, does it mean that Polish people going to live abroad "contaminate" the British culture, or the Irish culture, the French culture or whatever other culture?

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


take away their cars!

and make sure you have laws that forbid running with scissors...

want some helmets?

USA, Canada / Do many Polish people in America hate Americans? [592]

Polish people complain about everything and everybody. They complain about America, they complain about the UK, France, Russia, Ukraine, Lithuania, and the rest of the Europe. Look at all the other threads - whine, whine, whine... Even the threads that start on a positive note (Polish accomplishments) end up in a b*tch session about other nations. I don't think there's a topic they wouldn't complain about. You take away their potato, they b*tch; give them a potato, they b*tch some more that it's too small and not like the one they had before. They complain about their own country and their government (that they voted for), they leave, and they set up "Little Polands" all over the place, stick together, and b*tch that nothing's like it was back in Poland. The average Pole is chronically unhappy, stubborn, argumentative and continuously whining.

Perhaps it's time to realize that other nations are not going to adjust to Polish mentality, so something's gotta give. I'd say if someone doesn't like it here, they're free to leave. So far, more people are coming in than leaving. Something tells me this is not the worst place to live.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]

ok. get to the point. what is this supposed to show? that the people shouldn't have the right to bear arms because the government can confiscate them? maybe in a totalitarian country, but not here.


maybe I finally got the answer to why gun control is necessary in Poland - because people are irresponsible and cannot be trusted.

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


well, you brought them up. all I'm trying to find out is why people think that liberalizing gun ownership in Poland is a bad idea. apparently, people are more interested in criticizing the US, as always, and fantasizing about the most impressive response to getting mugged, absent a gun or a klonica

Law / Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun? [918]


the national guard is not exactly a state military, because it is administered by the federal government and the power of a governor to issue orders is limited.


so what, Poles are not? if it works for Czechs, why wouldn't it work for Poles?