Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [616]


Maybe we should redefine the meaning of the word "root"???

Germany too has alot of kebab shops and turkish culture...doesn't mean german culture has turkish "roots"! ;)


PS:


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish_language

Belonging to the roots of Poland? Don't think so....;)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [616]


But the child has the genetic heritage of both, it is not fully jewish. If it grows up as Pole it will never be part of the jewish roots of Poland.


Fully agree, all historians say similiar.
That's why it was possible for Jews across Europe to NOT have any significant impact on the genetic pool of their host countries. As I say again - DNA influence goes BOTH ways!

It is really a curious way of thinking to believe intermingling of Jews with the native people has only consequences for the non-jews! ;)


There is not much difference in the first place as there are only 3 big tribes (Celtics, Germanics and Slavs) in the first place.
Celtics and Germanics intermingled and mixed for millennia, the same there where Germanics and Slavs meet and mix - but all are european natives, Jews were not!...


I can use the word "mixing" instead if you like this one better?

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


With good reason!

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [616]


Where is your logic jonni?
You spoke of adultery...breaking of rules of the society...yes it happened. But as you say it it sounds as if only the christians are left with the aftermath, not the Jews...that is just not logical..always both parts "dilute" their gene pool (if they make kids that is).

And the law still stands, a tiny minority suffers much more from diluting of their genes than the majority.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [616]


Well...it goes both ways jonni.
Who do you think dilutes it's genepool more? The overwhelming majority or a tiny minority???
Easy math here...not the tiny minority will imprint itself on the majority but to the contrary, they will become assimilated into the majority (if they don't isolate themself).


Well, if that one is rarely existent in a society (besides some exotic restaurants) can you then still speak of "important part of the roots and heritage"?

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [616]


Points to thread topic

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [616]


Well, till now no DNA tests on european populations found a significant "jewish gene" in them, so we can scratch that theory too! ;)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [616]

You are losing me here Plastic,
You just talked about jewish traditions as the core of being jewish, not genetics!

And didn't JoeP say that the eastern Jews ARE actually from the East (Khazars) and not from the ME in the first place???

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [616]


The topic was about genetics, ja?

If you point at culture and food and traditions then there is even less reason to say that most of the Poles (or Germans for that matter) have jewish heritage today...

That would also mean that all those jewish kids who grew up as non-jews to save them from the Nazis are still lost to the jewish tribe..

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [616]


Well, their funny interpretions aside...if two different parts get a child together it will always have both sides in their heritage, if they like that fact or not! ;)

Another common fact is that always the smaller group assimilates into the bigger group (besides examples if the smaller group has and uses means to totally over come the majority in some way OR the smaller group isolates itself from the majority)

The Jews paid a high price all their time in Europe for not assimilating...

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [616]


But that would then only be "half-jews", wouldn't they? ;)

The race laws work here also...there are always big discussions between the rabbis, even today "who is a jew"? Intermarriage with non-Jews seen as biggest danger to world jewry!

Fact is, had the Jews intermingled with the native Europeans that much they would had stopped to be Jews.

judaism.about.com/od/interfaithfamilies/a/intermarr_jew_2.htm


It wasn't for nothing that even after many centuries of living side by side, even experiencing times of nearly full assimilation, accepted integration, Hitler was able to pluck most of them out of the native Germans at the first try...

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [616]


There were always exceptions of the rule (what only shows the rule). Of course the situation changed after WWII but then there weren't that many Jews to intermarry with left...

After all IF the Jews had integrated into the christian majority in that way as it would need to seed their genes that much there wouldn't had been a jewish culture to speak of for centuries anymore.

They needed their isolation to survive as culture...

And on the other hand, the other foreign, wandering culture in Europe are the Zigeuner (Sinti and Roma), next one will say the most Europeans have actually Zigeuner roots??? ;)

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [616]

There was a topic some times back telling the same about Germany....

According to some people 90 percent of Europe MUST be some kind of jewish....really astounding if you look at such a tiny people repeatedly kicked out and harassed over the centuries.

And totally crap too, especially as most Jews prefered to keep "pure" to keep their religion and heritage alive and lived mostly voluntarily in their sthetls/ghettoes most of the time anyhow!

After all a Jew is only a Jew if his mother is jewish, right? And I doubt there were many christian women ready to convert to Judaism before...at least not in such huge piles as it would had been necessary.

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


"Betriebswirtschaftslehre" = business administration
(Yes, it is that mind numbing as it sounds)


The demand is extremely rising! And seeing how new that whole concept is it is no wonder it is not efficient....yet!
Give it another 25 years though...


I always find that thinking funny as for example Germany was always big on welfare and beaureucracy and still managed to be a highly efficient and successful society and economy!

Not to talk about the scandinavian countries as another example, all are alot more regulated
than the US - but nobody would call them less successful or a "sh*ithole"!

Remind me again, where did the biggest economic crisis of the modern times stem from?
Regulated Europe or unregulated US/UK???
Ever visited the new tent cities outside of big american cities with those millions of newly homeless people in them in the States recently???

The same as the nearly "communist" EU (only in your head though mind you) is taking over the lead as more successfull economy than the US despite all that "meddling" and "coddling" of their citizens....how come???;)

lesser, your EU-phobia is starting to cloud your brain!


Well...it will make the future students in the EU more mobile and hence better suited to adapt to the new and bigger markets...they will profit from it in the end.

The whole of Europe will be open to them to study and to search for work, much more possibilities for them.


I really doubt that stopping to talk about it will do a thing against the pollution...
Behaving like the three apes...you know: Not seeing/Not hearing/Not telling is a first class ticket into the catastrophe!

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


Without now billions of earth-polluting humans she would still be quite able to do so...but we aren't leaving anywhere soon, quite to the contrary our number will only rise till we find a way to pollute other planets.

Hence the ABSOLUTE NEED for green tech to stop at least the polluting at home...
(You don't have a spare planet somewhere?)

(And in Germany at least green-tech becomes more and more an important economical factor which makes for more and more employment - a win/win situation)

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


Green-tech scientists are working on that!


Are you an accountant per chance Eurola? ;)

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


Well...without clean-tech there won't be many more generations (or do you have a second, "fresh", planet hidden somewhere) ?

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


I don't think so Eurola...green technology is a necessity, not only a trend, and will only grow as it has only just begun. The demand is rising enormously.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_technology

But who needs millions of lawyers and accountants??? ;)

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]

*nods*

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


Yeah...the "to many lawyers and accountants"-syndrome! :(

Some years back alot of young Germans wanted to study BWL...only because it was fashion with the Yuppie-generation who wanted nothing more then to earn alot of money and driving big cars very quick.

I wonder where they are now..

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


There a alot of professions which don't need a degree or an official grade as in creative jobs for example.
Especially there where the knowledge, the skills etc can't be streamlined, measured exactly, where the development is that quick that the students know more than the teachers ...it still needs alot of hard study to become that good that one can actually live from it.

I would even say that especially in those fields you must'n stop learning and keep always on your toes...but if one likes that field, learning is actually fun and not only a duty! :)

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


What's wrong with paying the bill with a job you actually like because you could chose it for yourself thanks to your education? ;)

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


I don't count Pisa fully if I'm honest...look at those Länder who are the worst...it's those with the most arab/turkish immigrant kids as in Berlin for example.

PS: There was another study in the mean time
pisa.ipn.uni-kiel.de/Zusfsg_PISA2006_national.pdf


The first PISA study was a shock though....but Germany reacted and now it looks much better!


That is true though...but actually I fail to see the disadvantage.
Not everybody belongs into a gymnasium/university...

How much worth is a high grade if EVERYBODY gets one???

They are the smarties and the dumbies....if both can get easily a bachelor how much worth
is this bachelor?

And what about the US practice to suffer sport students who are only "working" in the sport teams of the Uni and still get their grades??? ;)

That is impossible in Germany!

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]

Nope...I don't think so...chosing your job just for money doesn't make you happy!

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


For me personally? Being able to do what I like and earning more than only the most necessary.
Therefore having a modest living standard and still having fun at and with my work.

I think there is not much worse than to spend your whole week in a job you hate for some scraps!
That's why hard work in school and uni is so important, then you get to choose...or else you have to take the leftovers...if you are lucky!

And once you like what you do for a living life is good (or at least will never be THAT bad)! ;)

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


Hauptschule is mainly for those who don't plan to go to the Gymnasium later anyhow..
When you later change your outlook you have to work harder.

And no, not only a "bunch of well off kids" goes to the Gymnasium (it is free you know) ;)
They decide after your notes if you get a place....


Pisa has more to do with the quality of teaching than the potential of the pupils...now Saxony in the East is better than former western primus Bavaria, the chancellor of Germany is from eastern Background...neither can show off especially rich families or great, old, far reaching connections!


The grades in german universities will in the course of the Bologna process streamlined and now also called Bachelor and Masters.

And yes, a Bachelor is much easier to get....in Germany a grade count not much below a Master.
There are alot of protests.....as Germany for centuries prided itself on their hard to get higher grades especially the Meister certificate which counts alot here (and which you can only get after a good education with a successful grade, lots of experiences in several firms and then a tough exam at the Handelskammer.

What is the US' equivalent?

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


Well in Germany you get support too when you don't come from a rich house, BAFÖG and Stipendium. I believe it's easier for a poor German to get a first class education than for a poor Ami.

More people go to Gymnasium and later study then ever before....and no, the Universities don't just "churn out papers".
They all have to work for it!

The new EU-university reform will lead to a streamlining of universities across the EU, meaning that you can get your degree in one country and get accepted with it later in the whole of Europe...how is that for mobility and chances!

ec.europa.eu/education/higher-education/doc1290_en.htm

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


You are joking, ja? ;)

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


We left monarchy behind too btw..

Nowadays you can go to school, study and work your ass off for your success totally independent from your heritage as schools are open for all.

(Don't mind, "my mom get's welfare/my pop is an alki" is often heard by some as a kind of apology to neglect school, hang around with drug dealers and point to everybody else for them having no job - well, for others it's an additional motivation to not end like their parents, that's the freedom of choice you have in a capitalist society.)

History / Life in communism vs democracy in Poland [234]


Zimbabwe is an even more extreme example...once white Rhodesia was called the granary of Africa, producing so much that they could export and live well.

Then they started "revolution", killing/expelling the white farmers, stealing their farms, giving them to black people....now they are starving and dying!

Those hungry kids on the photo are most probably "post-capitalism" Zimbabweans...