Genealogy / Polish and Russian DNA? [52]

I just love these constant attempts to deny any link to Humanity, by claiming to be only realted to such-and-so, or someone was not (whatever ethnicity s/he actaully was) - Poles are realted to Eskimos, Bushmen, Aborigionese and Germans - but much, much closer to Germans - and, as some of you wisely pointed out, more than once, there are mixtures.

Ethnogeographic: I like that word.
Don't loose sight of other factors that make one Polish, or Russian, like religion, language, culture, et c.
But, to be blunt, there's a reason for the Biblical admonition agianst pride: it makes one foolish.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [682]

Ay, de mi ! All this to say we are upset at the loss of so many.
Why the accident - don't know .
Is Putin a devious and maybe evil plotter ? Of course! But one who wanted a bigger hand in Poland, not conspiracy theories !
Caucacus, I read up on some of the history ( by one of the Dumases ) and quite well understand .
Do I agree with terrorists? No.
Say we find this was an accident: could Russia have avoided it ? Yes!
Should Poland be wary? Of course!
But not trusting Russia won't bring back the dead. And if the plane had crashed elsewhere, where the Russians could never at all be blamed, would you still blame them?

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [682]

I'm only going to say: I saw the news last night, and just heard more today; my condolances to Poland and her people.

Language / What are the Polish words of Mongol origin? [14]

I prefer professional linguist, in this case, Kenneth Katzner, "Languges of the World", et c. and J. Nemeth, Phd, translator for Tibor Halasi-Kun, "Turkish Grammar" - along with the work of several renouned historians, anthropologists, et c.

The western Mongols are called Kalmyk.
All officially labled Tatars are part of the group kown as Kipchak Turks -all descndants of the Golden Horde are Kipchaks. Osmali Turkish is not the same as modern Turkish, as you noted, much of the language is outdated in Turkey.

Anyway, the question is not Tatar, but Mongol.

Language / What are the Polish words of Mongol origin? [14]

Sorry, your claim has no merrit. The language in the present to a group of people labled by others as Tatars is not proof of the language of people who called themselves Tatars about a thousad years ago, in what is probably now Chinese Central Asia - in fact, your arguement could be used to make you 'English', if you also spoke English, natively.

There are modern people called Avars, for example, yet they have nothing to do with the ancient Avars who invaded Europe.
What I'm saying is, stick to the known and proven facts, and, more to the point, the subject.
I'm glad to learn about Tatar words in Polish, but I asked about Mongol words.

Language / What are the Polish words of Mongol origin? [14]

Thanks -but it's Altaic, only -no proven relation to Uralic - and has been considered seperate since the last quarter of the 20th c. - and there is no exclusive evidence that the same people have always been called Tatars -'Tatar' was appenged to all Mongol hordes, not Mongol to the Tatars - So, whether the Kipchak -Turks or some unknown group of Altaic people was originally meant is not known.

This is like the 'Macedonian' arguement, one which ancient Greek scholars, or at least one, would find laughable - since they knew none Greeks had been Hellenized, and would know that the Slavic Macedonians are just that.

Also true, in the sence of not knowing how to file them, linguisticly, are the Ancient Avars.
Ditto the Veneti and Antes -until they were clearly part of the Slavic peoples, we don't know for sure whether they spoke anything esle - there is really no evidence there-to.

What we do know of the Tatars, is they clearly were not Mongols, proper, but their enimies.

Life / COMBATING "POLACK" JOKES [460]

"All In The Family" was supposed[to make the 'Silent' (later 'moral') majority type of 'conservative' look bad, but, in fact, it does make the other characters look bad -despite "Archie's" jerk -... behavior. But that was the only show I know of which made those sort of jokes - I don't say others didn't exist, but perhaps they were not as popular as some of you seem to think.

There was the 'official [dumb] Polish Joke book', ditto Italian, btw, but I do not know how well it actually sold.
'B.C.' comics made fun of Polish jokes, encluding some 'American' jokes, as, I think, 'The Wizard Of Id' -'Hägar the Horrible' did a Burgundian joke, instead. I can't remember for sure, but it seems maybe MAD magazine was guilty early on, but they also panned 'All In The Family'. 'Playboy' may have been guilty.

Life / COMBATING "POLACK" JOKES [460]

One does not need to be Jewish, to not like such jokes; there are plenty of Jewish Jokes by Jewish comedians/writers, and some of them are funny even to those of us not from that background - many jokes are universal -there are also jokes like tat from 'The Two Ronniess' -about a man trying to get insurance against becoming Jewish -only because he seems to already be Jewish, or at least a Yiddish speaking person with Ashkenazi characteristics -which are more eastern european than Jewish, btw.

It's not funny, if you sound like this certain obnoxious kid I saw on the bus, who was making awful remarks about how fat some woman was-he didn't seem to know her from Adam - and other rude reamrks about fellow passangers.

You can be Witty or you can be vulgar, but you can't be both.

USA, Canada / Are you a US citizen? Test for Americans. [67]

By now, I don't know if Osama Bin Laden is even alive. Yes, I know about Haiti, and a number of other places, though I might not know them all, Guatanamo : now, everyone knows that was never true - which is pure logic ... on the otherhand, I ain't average, and can't say what the average person might know - just some of them. Again, logic, and knowlege of human nature must be aplied, to know that, and then you'd know that many people believe, rather than know - and often, they believe what they deside is true. All together, then, it does not matter what news they see/read/hear.

UK, Ireland / No job unless you're Polish [201]

All I can say is, I got one job (through a temp agency ) because I speak some Spanish; in another case, I was sent back, because I'm not nearly fluint in Spanish. Sometimes, you do run into reverse discrimination, capitalism nonwithstanding.

Life / COMBATING "POLACK" JOKES [460]

a further note : Czeslaw Milosz made the simple note about Polish jokes : like the Irish and Italians ( and 'redneck's, i.e Rustics ) were uneducated peasants - The Germans were also 'funny sounding ' and had differnet cultures - but tended to be educated, Swedes and Norwegians hard working and in places like Wisconcin - far from the East coast - Chinese were so different, unfortunately, that they were more than just teased.

For the thin skinned, this is just an explaination - or, rather, a more complete one.

Genealogy / Why anyone would think I'm from Poland? Ethnic iD, and perception. [25]

Tevek, that is part of why I posted : such mistakes can be funny; I think the person actually asked if were from Poland - I was about 19, so hardly likely to have been permitted to just up and go to Berkeley - maybe she thought I was a student - but I wasn't dressed like the average European student I'd seen around that time - the turtle neck was my father's originally, and not even in style - sort of a pseudo faux late beatnik bit; Darun, I'd never heard of redheaded Gypsies, even black haired ones are uncommon here, I didn't say they don't exist - more to the point, I never assumed my style of dress at the time was anything like that used by local Gypsies, or any photos I'd seen of Gypsies in any reputable book or magazine. I'm easily tanned, in forearms and face, and haven't completely faded since 1980 - but, except when I was on certain medications, have never been that [emphasised] tanned ; there is someone who thinks I'd fit in in another part of the world where Indo-Iranian people do use henna regularly, but then he thought an Afghan woman had a 'typical Jewish nose ' - so, I discard his judgement. - this also goes to show that physical types cover a lot of ground, so to speak - I might add, I once knew three Hungarians and each was different - so you never can tell !

Life / COMBATING "POLACK" JOKES [460]

HMM : Did it ever occur to you two flamers how silly you both seem?

Genealogy / Why anyone would think I'm from Poland? Ethnic iD, and perception. [25]

Gee, Gypsy's one thing I've not been mistaken for - nor had I heard of redheaded Gypsies :)
* I did assume everyone knew what henna does to hair, besides smell !

Life / COMBATING "POLACK" JOKES [460]

someone early on gave the correct reason why there are (anti) Polish jokes, and until recently, one might note, there have been Irish and Italian jokes. Personally, I've not heard nor seen any Polish jokes in years. I can say that, for all that, I have also not seen 'Kiss Me I'm Polish " t-shirts, which to me is commendable of the Polish people - if such disgusting displays of 'superior desireability' is even the choice of those claiming to be so worthy of kissing.

Insulting others, especially in a rude and vulgar (dead common) manner, is not a sign of ones better nature. Insults do hurt, but insulting back only makes one look bad. 'Water of a ducks back ', when possible, is the best responce.

Language / Polish and Hungarian, how similar? [53]

I saw reference to aromanian in omniglot ; I did not know ruthenian had it's own dialect, probably what Barrows meant. In the 19th c. Wallachian would be considered correct. Anyway, Pauli can use Slovak, Ruthenian or Aromanian.

Language / Polish and Hungarian, how similar? [53]

A, yes, people on the border would tend to understand each other - easier to get along, servive and trade - as well as deal with the law, bureaucracy, nobility, et c. When writing about the Romany of that region, during the mid 19th c., George Barrows used the term Wallachian for what looked more like Hungarian with a good mix of Polish, though tthis may have refered to the dialect of the local Gypsies, used, if so, along with their native Romany. The spelling was rather attrocious : not Polish, German, magyar or Russian, but all of the above plus maybe French ....

Language / Etymology of pan /pani [18]

there are words, from the Indo -European roots, mostly, which are common in all slavic languages; there are of course regional varients, partly because of the three ancient branches - venedi, sclaveni and antes - which can not be proven to be all Slavic per se; Gothic and Scyhtian seem to have universal enfluence on the slvavs, but, as an example, the Bulgar Slavs had Bulgar/Hun enfluence, Khazar enfluence, probably Cuman - then, Thracian, Vlach, Greek, Macedonian, Illyrian , Latin, more Turkish, et c. - while the Poles, Sorbians, Czechs, Slovaks, Kasubians, and ? Selesians - fell under different enfluences, having moved into former Germanic regions, and being in contact with the Franks and others.

Language / Polish and Hungarian, how similar? [53]

Magyar, i.e. Hungarian, has a handful of barrowed Slavic words, both Slavic and Magyar have barrowed Germanic (Gothic, Norse, in Russian, Ukrainian, et c. and modern German ) Iranian ( from Scuthian and Sarmatian ) words, as well as barroings from French. Both countries had their turns being Emperial. Beyond this, however, unless a minor language is shared by all three countries (Selesian? ) Magyar - which, strictly speaking is not Asiatic, but Uralic with Turkish loan words. - And, of course, there's Yiddish. - Oh, and of course there are Latin, Greek and some Hebrew barrowungs in all three.

Language / Etymology of pan /pani [18]

Well, thanks to all who replied, that explains why the common Slavic form isn't used; alas, for my own purposes, that the essencial meaning dosn't change.