Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

First time poster, short time reader.

I've been in Poland nearly three years now, have been studying Polish even longer, and, in short, to answer the OP's thread title, "No, they don't."

I would bet that 99% of all posters on this sight who say they speak it well, are not even in the vicinity of intermediate. I say this through experience, not a hunch.

I've met several of those "I am like...intermediate" types, but in reality, they can't string together 1 decent sentence with even decent grammar.

Back to 99%..... 99% of all expats in Poland completely disregard grammar, string together random words with clusters of infinitive forms of verbs because they don't know how to conjugate them, all the while leaving nearly every declension out and paying no attention to gender. If you are saying things like, "Mam starszy ojciec niz ty...." and "Kupiles ta ksiazka?" " or "Ja Bede Wziac ta torba do praca", you do NOT speak Polish.

And the Poles are partly at fault for this false sense of accomplishment expats have. For Polish people, 1 sentence in even decent grammar is an enormous accomplishment. Why? Because chances are, they've never heard a foreigner speak even avg. Polish. It's just an accepted thing in Poland that foreigners "don't get Polish".

Polish is in a class of its own. You don't come to Poland, study a bit, and learn the language through osmosis, much like any other European language. Polish is on a completely different level of difficulty, which is why nobody comes here and learns it. It's generally too frustrating, too challenging and time consuming, not to mention useless as a bag of sand in the desert outside of Poland's borders.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

Szwed, when I say "learn", i mean really learn it, like to a good level of proficiency. not thank you, please, beer, and cheers.

and Szwed, I am from the USA, and not once in my life have I ever needed Polish for any reason whatsoever in America. Also, those 11 million you mention, they live in just a few concentrated areas, mainly Pennsylvania, NYC and Chicago, with a couple more communities in the Michigan/Minnesota areas. In America, Polish is useless.

Also, unless you land yourself a job in a factory surrounded by Poles who happen to not speak any English, it's just as useless in the UK. No business owner in the UK would require,or even expect an Englishman to speak Polish so that he can hire him for a job. They came to England, they should speak English. Simples.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

wow, what a bunch of BS going on here.

the part about advertising for people that speak Polish, in order to get Polish people, entirely believable.

NorthbyNorth, just cut the crap. 3 months and you're almost fluent? I don't even know how to comment on this. Hahaha, and for what it's worth, saying you speak the language fluently without using any declensions is like saying "I speak English, but don't use any articles or verb tenses." Come on. Nearly every sentence in Polish involves a declension, meaning you are messing it up nearly every time, not to mention whatever other mistakes you make. You sir are a prime example of expats running their mouth about how they are "almost fluent", when in reality, if you were to say be a guest on the Kuba Wojewodzki Show, not only would you not comprehend what the man was asking you, but your responses would leave everyone with their mouth hanging open wondering what the heck you just said. Polish is easier than French??? What in the world are you talking about. I guess if you are learning a language with complete disregard to grammar than sure, it would seem easier, only when you speak, nobody knows what the hell you are saying.

delphiandomine, again.....you're talking crap. blasphemy. Polish is a major European language??? what??? go to any western European country and see how many people you meet speak Polish, excluding Polish people. i simply can't believe what I'm reading on this forum.

and Cadbury??? you are out of your mind if you think a job requirement for someone coming to Poland to manage a group of people in Cadbury is they must speak Polish. THIS NEVER HAPPENS. PEOPLE DO NOT STUDY POLISH, and if they do, they sure as hell don't achieve a level high enough to run business in Poland all in Polish. I can tell you this, yet again, from experience. I teach on a regular basis these hot shot executives who get imported from all over the world, places like France, Germany, Korea, Japan, USA, England, Ireland, etc.....and they are given high paying jobs to manage Polish people, and they come to my school to improve their English, not Polish. Occasionally, a brave soul attempts to learn Polish but EVERY time, they drop out saying it's too difficult. Or, they continue to plug along and after a year, two years, they still can't string a decent sentence together. I could live here for another 20 years and I would bet everything I own that I would never meet a single transplant to LG, Hewlett Packard, Siemens, Google, Toyota....you name the major company, and the only people speaking Polish at that company......the Poles.

NorthbyNorth, I'd love to sit down with you and hear your Polish. I'd bet my right arm you're not even at a B2 level regarding vocab, and grammar, well, an obvious ZERO level.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

surely not on purpose. just calling a spade a spade. this forum is full of lots of exaggerations, false statements and misleading information.


for the most part, this is a nothing statement. according to Wikipedia, Poland has the 8th largest population in Europe, within it's borders. More are scattered across the rest of the continent, which, according to your research, raises it to #5. If Poland's population was twice the size, it wouldn't make any difference. It comes down to mainly economics, and for most people, they simply don't see any reason to learn Polish because:

a) who wants to move to Poland? it's an ex-communist country (just 20 short years ago) with an economy and quality of living far below any western European country, not to mention an abysmal health care system, awful weather, grossly overpriced real estate, food, clothing, cars and basically anything that comes from outside it's borders like international food, appliances, etc. Basically, in Poland, if it's not Made In Poland, it's a ripoff.

b) nobody outside Poland speaks Polish. years and years of studying to finally, [i]maybe[i], learn a language that is essentially useless.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


this is, yet again, a nothing statement, but if anything, maybe you shouldn't have chosen a POLISH guy, born in POLAND, who speaks POLISH. part of me wants to send this cat an IM, letting him know that in Szczecin, he'll be lucky to earn 1500 a month as a "Informatyk". enjoy your packet soups and bread, my friend.

for what it's worth, Poland's economy has jumped because of foreign investment, along with it's recent induction to the EU. basically, lots of industrialized nations are starting to set up shop here for the same reason every other industrialized nation goes to poorer countries....cheap labor. the people working for say Hewlett Packard in Poland are being paid 15% of what they would earn in America. in addition, if this continues to happen, regarding language, far more Poles will study English rather than transplants coming here for a 1-3 year stint learning Polish.


again, what point are you making saying Ukrainians and Lithuanians are coming to Poland looking for work? have you been to either of these countries? have a look around and you will quickly realize why people are fleeing. it's obvious that people of poorer countries want to move to richer or simply safer ones.


honestly, when is somebody going to present to me at least a decent argument??? first of all, many Poles, or people with Polish ancestry live in the aforementioned countries. secondly, the languages are all in the same language family, sound similar, and share many common words. A native Polish speaker can turn on a Czech or Slovak television channel and understand 70% of what is being said because of the similarities.


including myself, and i never said there weren't. but it still doesn't make the language any more useful. there are millions of Italians and people from Spanish speaking countries living in America, and do Americans need either of those languages? not unless you're an interpreter or an elementary school teacher in Florida or California somewhere in a Spanish speaking community.


again, I'm American, I know just how "useful" or potentially useful Polish is in America. excluding isolated parts of Chicago, Brooklyn, NYC, and some parts of Pennsylvania/Minnesota/Michigan, you will not hear Polish, and if you did, what would be the point or reason for you to understand it in the first place. so you can turn to your friend and say, "i know what they just said"........?

i will continue to study Polish because I live here, have a Polish fiance along with her family, and my kids are going to speak it, so i need to know it. but, when i'm back in the states, excluding in my own home, i am positive that i will have no use for Polish, along with any other language besides English.

it's really simple.....go to rich countries and walk the streets, and then ask people what language they would like to be fluent in if they could choose, and see how many people say, "I want to learn Polish" over all the others. better yet, TELL them they should consider Polish, and try and convince them of precisely why.

i've grown tired of this thread and re-stating the obvious over and over, sorry to say, but after living in Poland for three years, studying the language even longer, and teaching thousands of people from all over the world and hearing what they have to say, I'm quite savvy on what it means to live in Poland and speak Polish vs. living somewhere else.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


always happy to be of service.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


this, if anything, proves my point.

do you know why Americans do not see the value in learning a foreign language? because it simply isn't a necessity. if you had an MBA and a nice paying job in a major city in America, would you then spend the next 3-5 years taking classes in the evening for ....oh, I don't know.......a Chemistry degree? no. of course not. why do people not do that? because it's a waste of time and money.

you said Europeans realise the value in speaking other languages. let's concentrate on the word "value", because value is exactly what we're talking about, in every sense of the word. Europeans learn foreign languages because it's a necessity to communicate with anybody else outside their country's borders, and secondly, and often times more importantly, because without English, they can't get a job. here in Poland, if you're a post grad, 25 years old, and you apply for basically any job, if you cannot speak English, don't even bother applying. this is literally "value". you want a good job? speak English. which, as a result, makes it beneficial for one to go to class at night to learn it, pay money, spend the time, so on and so forth. Europe MUST learn languages. not because they think "it's a good thing to know, people should speak other languages...." but because they simply have to.


i would LOVE for you to fill me in on some examples of people in America getting nowhere because they can't speak Polish/Spanish/Italian. please enlighten me with all your vast experience on this particular matter.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

food for thought:

vistawide.com/languages/us_languages2.htm

if you still think Polish is of any use in America, see "0.7%"

another thing worth noting: of this 0.7%, the majority of them speak English, often times better than they speak Polish, most certainly those that were raised in the USA.


i most certainly "find language learning to be a valuable intellectual exercise", after all, I moved to Poland didn't I?.......I study Polish all the time. My points have been not whether or not I think language learning is good or bad, but specifically the usefulness of Polish outside Poland in general, along with it's usefulness in America. this is how the conversation got started.

Language / Polish words difficult to translate into English [66]

it doesn't make sense to look for the english equivalent of certain words because in some countries they simply don't have certain types of buildings, or food, or anything else for that matter, so naturally they cannot have a word for something that doesn't exist in their country. common sense.

how can you say there is no translation in english for "kurwa"? it's f@ck, only in English, we have many more forms of "f@ck", like with an ing, ed, etc. Like usual, Polish has one word when English has several, all with slightly different meanings, but Polish simplifies it all to one word. A million examples of this in Polish. Anyway, back to Kurwa and F@ck:

na przyklad:

"F@ck, I woke up, f@ckin' took a shower, had a f@ckin' cup of coffee, f@ckin' drove to work, then came the f@ck back..."....so on and so forth.

i've yet to come across a word in Polish that didn't have an English translation, excluding of course things that don't exist in English speaking countries but exist in Poland.

Language / Polish words difficult to translate into English [66]


my dictionary says "kindness" or "friendliness".


sure there are other words/variations, but I can say the same thing about english. no different.

Language / Polish words difficult to translate into English [66]


this certainly can be true.

regarding "pogodnie", i always found it strange to hear Polish people say, "we had weather", but apparently in Polish, to say you "have weather" is enough to indicate "good weather", so pogodnie i guess would mean something along those lines.

i have a question:

how do you say, "it fits you" when talking about say a shirt or something, as in "the shirt is the right size".....?

people tell me, "ta koszula pasuje ci" but this seems to be more like, "that shirt suits you" as in it is a good shirt that matches you in some way, but not specifically related to size.

furthermore, what about basically anything else when you want to say that something is the right size for something else, like "that square peg doesn't fit into a round hole"....?

Language / Polish words difficult to translate into English [66]

frd, if you go back to the original post about "kurwa", you will see the example sentence that is given by the poster, using the word over and over. for all those instances in his example, "fuck" is the direct translation, every time, which I demonstrated by re-writing it with "fuck".

for instances where "kurwa" is just thrown into a sentence just to be vulgar, to make it sound stronger, etc., which was the example the poster gave, "fuck" is the translation.

when did i say "polish is different"?

Language / Polish words difficult to translate into English [66]

ok, let's go back, if it's even worth it. i'm sure our private little tiff is boring others.

Polish has one form of "kurwa", as far as I know. that is "kurwa". no "kurwa'ego", "kurwach", etc. etc.

jebac, pierdolic.....these are different words, not different forms of kurwa.

English has fuck, fucking, fucked, etc. More forms of the same word.

i was misleading when i wrote "different variations/meanings". what i meant by that is there are different ways of swearing that may be comparable to "fuck" or "kurwa" in both languages.

kumasz?

another thing worth noting is that variations of swears in English very often involve 2 or more words, whereas in polish, there is often times a prefix added to the word or of course a completely different word. for example:

if you take "fuck", you can say fuck off, get the fuck out, fuck up, fuck all, fucked over, fuck me, fuckin' A, etc. etc. They're spun off the same core swear word but have completely different meanings.

i'm far from fluent in Polish and could certainly learn a lot from people such as yourself frd, but i seem to be on the right track regarding this.

USA, Canada / Where to buy Polish food in New Jersey? [157]

don't forget Europa in Jersey City, right on Jersey Avenue.

Language / Collection of learning resources for learning the Polish language [129]

i didn't read through the entire thread, but I have a question:

anyone know of good exercise books? i really enjoy exercise books, but they just don't seem to have them for polish, at least not that I can find. basically, I'm looking for something like a Murphy's book for learning Polish.

i spend so much time in the classroom teaching along with tramming, busing, walking, etc., that I have limited opportunities to speak polish, so having an exercise book where I can at least improve my vocabulary grammar would be ideal, plus, I enjoy it.

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]

1. Nothing is convenient in Poland

2. Overpriced

3. The country's mentality is still stuck in the communist era

4. Customer Service is non-existent

5. The only good food in Poland is Polish food

6. The country's language is painfully difficult compared to nearly every other language in the world making assimilation frustrating and for many, futile.

7. Lektors on TV

8. Public transport is downright filthy and inefficient

9. Polish weather is crap. 4 months of sun and warmth, 8 months of gray, cold, wind and wet.

10. The complete lack of business sense

i could go on forever.

History / Polish hatred towards Jews... [1290]


that old gag. out of curiosity, where are you from dear lad?

it will never cease to amaze me how much the world loves to talk about the Americans' poor English, especially the Brits. why is it that people never mention Irish or Scottish English? You think those dialects are flawless?

The last Irish guy I spoke to said to me, "I am in Poland 4 months now". not kidding.

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]


are you suggesting that in every country, the only good food that can be had is the national food?


I've never been to the UK. Regardless, Polish public transport is as I stated.


I've been here 3 years and I'm sharing with you things I don't like ("hate" is a bit strong) about Poland, which is what the OP had asked for. Every country has it's flaws. I could write a list for my own country, but that would be off topic.

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]

Getting back to food, another problem with their international food attempts is they don't follow simple rules. they do it to themselves.

Pizza should have TOMATO SAUCE, not ketchup. mozzarella cheese, not the rubbery crap trying to imitate mozzarella cheese. and please, please, hold the corn. pizza was NEVER meant to have corn.

Sushi should NOT have Philadelphia Cream Cheese or mayonnaise. the only time I have ever seen that is in Poland, and trust me, the Japanese do not use either of those ingredients in their sushi.

I was recently in Pizza Hut and decided to order pasta in an alfredo sauce. absolutely disgusting. i can personally guarantee you that if you were to go to a Pizza Hut in America and order the same dish, it would be a completely different meal, and rather tasty.

poles try to "polish" everything in the restaurants, which not only kills the food's authenticity, but the taste as well. this is not a money issue, it's a mentality issue. when they start wising up to this, the tourism will reflect it.

i can only speak for my own country, but the misconceptions Poles have about America is absolutely baffling. their only exposure they have to Americano is what they see and get in Poland, which is this twisted, jaded view filled with half-assed attempts and failed imitations. my students still are amazed when I tell them Coke/Pepsi/Mountain Dew are crap in Poland, but delicious in America. "You mean they taste different???? How??!!!"

on and on and on.

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]


uhhmmm.....not really. At the very least, the entire country of America knows this. in America, I have never seen ketchup put on pizza. ever.

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]


I never said it was poland's fault. And for what it's worth, I was an avid Mt. Dew drinker in America, drank a can of the stuff nearly every day, and I can attest that Mt. Dew in Poland is basically not Mt. Dew, it's something completely different. Again, this has nothing to do with fault, it has to do with fact, but this is getting off of the original point i was making.


it's Poland's preference. Poland makes a conscious decision to use ketchup instead of tomato sauce, cream cheese in their sushi, etc. because they think it's what will sell. If the Poles are buying it, then hey, it's a good business decision, but for tourists/expats, they consider things like sauce-less pizza with corn on it and cheese that resembles something like rubber from a car tire, as gross. That's all I'm saying.


Never, but I've had the next best thing: Italian immigrants in the NY area. Imported Italian ingredients, real meats and cheeses, absolutely delicious, sold to me by a guy with a thick Italian accent.

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]

woooooooow. well, i guess some people are more patriotic than others.

let's go step by step here, because these replies are just off the wall.

comparing transportation in america vs. poland is laughable, and because you tied this comment in with relative convenience of a country, i'll approach this response like this: literally everybody in america, in their late teenage years, gets their driver's license and a car to drive. EVERYBODY drives in america. if you live in a major city, plenty of public transport, but again, many people even in the cities own cars. what could be more convenient than having your own car with big parking lots in every place you want to drive to? if you prefer to stand in the cold waiting for a filthy smelly tram or take those dreadful polish trains, prosze bardzo.

prices......YES, other countries in this world are different. enough said.

customer service: i can't believe you would even suggest that polish customer service is quality, and your example essentially is a worthless statement.

english menus??? wow, you are really starting to make some assumptions here, and you know what they say about assuming......
regardless, the fact of the matter is.....the only good food in Poland is Polish food, whatever the reason for it may be.......and it's a reason for a tourist/expat to complain about the restaurants. when you go to an Italian restaurant, you don't want to eat crappy Italian food. This is the point that is being made.

man, it's exhausting commenting on all these silly responses from you, they're so incredibly myopic that it's actually irritating to read, but I'll go on.....

I can't learn the language? Again, an assumption. Have you ever spoken to me in Polish? Fact of the matter is, you have no idea what my level of Polish is, and for what it's worth, it's most likely leaps and bounds beyond 99% of the other posters on this forum. With that said, I still reserve the right to say that Polish is a royal pain in the ass to learn, and this would fall perfectly into the criteria of this thread. Why is that so difficult to see.

Lekors.....UUUHH....again, what a non-statement you made. Listen up everybody, turn on your TV, get to a movie other than a Polish one, and tell me if there's a Lektor. What? There is? Ok. Let's move on.....

Public transport again.......and of course, yet again, a wrongful assumption from you, my dear. I have been living in Poland for 3 years, and STILL do not own a car. That's right. My horse is left foot/right foot, trams, buses, trains....you name it, I've ridden on it to get to work/friends/family/etc. I know what polish public transport is like, I don't need to try to convince anyone of it otherwise.

weather......are you even attempting to suggest that Polish weather is not total crap? Your basing this argument on an unseasonably warm November? I'm almost embarrassed for you at this point.

and as for business sense........not worth it, it's way off topic, and again, your evidence of this is not only inaccurate, but not applicable. even if it were true that most cars on the roads in poland were new, it has nothing to do with the country's business sense. honestly.

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]

Uuuuuuuuchhhh! just awful, people. you can't argue with blind patriotism. the same crap i see in America. I struggle to have conversation with most of the general population there as well for the same reason.....blind patriotism. arguing with this mentality is futile.

let me guess Delphian, you walk around saying how unhealthy america is and that we all eat at fast food joints, yet at the same time, you visit your mom on the weekend and she fries you up a foot long kielbasa with some greasy pierogi on the side. Oh, then it's time for cake. Sorry for the assumption, but it's my 1st to your several ;)

for those of you waving your polish flags, convinced it's great here and that my complaints about your country are false or inaccurate, misguided, "just another American with that typical attitude", then be my guest, go on thinking that way. after all, it's people like you in the population in Poland that keep the country going. as for the mass exodus of poles to other countries once Poland became part of the EU along with the open border policy now, along with the 4-5 million Poles living in America (imagine how many Poles would be there if America didn't require VISA's....), ask them what they think of good ole' Poland.

i didn't want this to turn into a comparison war, but as an American, it's always the inevitable responses one will get from Poles because they automatically assume you're saying outright, "America is better than Poland in every way," and take every criticism of their precious Poland to mean just that. But, in Poland's defense, for every ultra-patriot i meet here, i meet another Pole who can tell it like it is and speak honestly about their country.

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]


no, it's the norm.


why is america unhealthy. why.

other questions: how long have you lived in Poland? why are you here? what's your occupation?

Life / 3 reasons why you hate Poland. [1049]

Delphin, by your blatant disregard for my questions in my last post which you conveniently skipped past and commented on another post immediately following mine, until you respond, I can only assume that the information I asked for would lessen the credibility of your posts and be in some way self incriminating. you did nothing but challenge, quite directly, every other post of mine before that, but after a direct challenge, you have, thus far, balked on it.

still patiently waiting......

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]

KLove,

I'd say those are some good observations.

Someone once said to me, a native Polish/fluent English speaker, "in order to speak English, you need to know "this" much in order to say "this" much (putting her hands shoulder width apart, and then moving them in just a little bit indicating the second "this") but to speak Polish, one needs to know "THIS" much in order to say "this" much," putting her hands at full wing span apart and then moving them to only about 8 inches apart to indicate the 2nd "this".

My experience was much the same. My first year learning Polish was mainly learning cases/structure, and after 1 year, I could barely say anything but I knew how to use cases rather well. By year 2, fluency started to build, but it's still, for me, a slow process even now, but at least faster than in the beginning.

Saying Polish is "basic" is tempting for many native English speakers. I understand how it can seem offensive to Poles, but at times, it's hard to resist saying it. Time after time, an English speaker studying Polish goes to the dictionary over and over finding a different English word being translated to the same word in Polish. Along with that, English is not only larger than Polish (sheer number of words), it's larger than any language by far which again gives one the impression that Polish simply isn't as sophisticated of a language as English.

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]

in all honesty, how many americans do you know that have lived in poland for 20 years.

Life / Do expats living in Poland speak Polish? [233]


it's no different with polish people. i routinely hear how polish people speak with incorrect grammar, do not decline words properly, mess up verb conjugations, etc. etc.

if i had a nickel for every time i have heard, "don't worry, polish grammar is difficult even for polish people."

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]

for all the fist pumping Poles and expat Polish sympathizers out there, consider this:

i routinely here Polish people say, "it's bull$hit that America won't let us go to america without a VISA! they let the czech rep. go, Germany, so many other countries......we have troops in the middle east fighting their stupid war! we deserve VISA rights!"

and i'd say 15% of the time, I hear,"they can't open up the borders for Poland, way too many Poles would leave. there already are millions of Poles living in America, many of them illegal."

with more and more 20 somethings speaking English in Poland, along with the job market getting more and more competitive, a move to America for many Poles just graduating college is not an irrational thought. look at what happened when Poland joined the EU.....how many educated doctors left, skilled laborers, fluent English speakers left for England, Ireland, Scotland, etc.

have any of you ever considered that the Polish government doesn't WANT the borders to open in America for Polish citizens? Poland has about 40 million people with a very high concentration of old retired communist era people sitting at home watching Polsat and collecting government checks. if so much as 1 million Poles between the ages of 18 and 35 left for America.....about 2% of the country.....it would be devastating to Poland's economy and the well being of it's citizens. The recent boom in Polish economy is due to a lot of foreign investment fueled by cheap labor and educated citizens. If the cheap educated labor takes a dive, so does Poland. Also, don't forget: industrialized countries can hire from outside the country to fill spots if need be, but who comes to Poland from the West to work for a Polish company after finishing college so they can sit in a 35sq. meter apt. and make 2000zl a month, or 700 USD. For those that do come from other countries, it's on a short term contractual basis, anywhere between 1 and 3 years, and they're getting paid the same salary they were making when they left their home country, not to mention hooked up with an apt. or house, company car, etc.. Google, Toyota, 3M, Hewlitt Packard......I have taught students from all these companies, I know what is going on.

I teach all age groups in Poland and it's interesting how different age groups tend to think quite similarly about their country. For the most part, beyond around 30 years old, they mostly say they will not leave Poland, or at least THINK they won't. BUT, the younger generations, most certainly the 15-25 year old age group....many of them routinely talk about how the only thing that holds them back from leaving Poland is family, and if they had an opportunity to work in Germany, France, England....and often times the USA, they'd do it.

USA, Canada / REFUSED A HOLIDAY VISA TO THE U.S CAUSE IM POLISH [323]


you're right. if you're living in America illegally, have no benefits or rights, it's "not all that".................?