History / Restoration of Poland's Monarchy? [40]


Those in favour of such a thing would have to make an argument that the present system is not fit for purpose then they would have to make an argument as to why it was a good idea to treat people differently by opting for such an undemocratic thing.

News / GERMANS WANT TO GERMANIZE KOPERNIK (COPERNICUS)! OUTRAGE! [1016]


I just picked your quote as an example of the absolute nonsense typed on this thread, it's just self evidently bollox as is the crap about feudalism, anti Russia racism, mixing up the renaissance and the enlightenment and a whole catalogue of similar bollox.

The poster above (AiK) asking about the German underachievers in occupied Poland was correct there is a supercilious if not outright racist overtone to the debate.

Classifieds / D&D Group for Expats in Warsaw needs one more player... [69]

What's the problem?.....he likes doing his stuff........seriously what is it?

News / Nigel Farage voice of reason for Poland and EU? [79]

Well he has interesting backing.
hopenothate.org.uk/blog/insider/farage-s-helping-red-hand-3762#.U3hrBW6lxLw.twitter@matthopenothate

News / The US sends troops to Poland for drills [83]


This is true and widely reported, the mockery of democracy in Kiev was as convincing as the mockery of the referendum in Crimea.

Can ALL posters get back on topic please.

UK, Ireland / Poland thanks Irish people for 10 years of kindness [11]


That's really nice, made me smile inside

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]

Paulina, I never watch RT, Iranian TV or any other obviously questionable news sources. I gathered my information from mainstream Irish, British and frequently Spanish sources, they are all reporting the nature of the coup and the nature of those who fought the police. They have also pointed out that the police did shoot unarmed people. The reporting has been in the main even handed though with a sharp western bias. The BBC broadcast a report a few nights ago about the nature of the opposition

youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5SBo0akeDMY

I just have a problem with coups and neo nazis. What happened was a coup there can be no doubt about that, the message sent was that your vote, your opinion, is worthless.

The oligarchs who funded this coup have been rewarded with positions of power no one elected them, the people thrown out of power in the last election were just as guilty of theft as the present president. The looser as ever is the Ukrainian people.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


The Cuban thing I think is out dated though has a beautiful symmetry about it. I don't believe anyone wants to see a partition of the country, the coup leaders did make it easy for Putin to do what he did and the Russian speakers do have a point. They elected the president and the losers removed him that would make anyone doubt democracy.

Russia was born there making the place have at least some emotional significance for Russians and I believe that these events are more than just strategy, for the Russians they are existential.

Shawn

Again we are largely in agreement, it's a pity that the agreement between the pres and the opposition to hold early elections was rejected. The average Ukrainian just wants the issue settled by a fair election, the people thrown out at the last election were given a chance but they messed up. This latest guy also messed up, the words and actions of the current crowd don't look good.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]

Partially true Shawn, I do have a problem with political parties that are neo nazi especially when they have gathered some power.

The information above was lifted from mainstream British and Irish media, it is being reported but ignored. The EU's reaction to the elections in Austria and also Hungary when far right parties were elected was very different. These guys are being portrayed as our guys the great democrats bravely struggling for clean politics but they are rotten to the core.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]

It's not propaganda, Neo-Nazis are in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education the right sector and justice parties control these ministries, the oligarchs who funded the coup have been appointed governors in the East.

These political parties are anti Semitic russophobes and openly fascist.
One of the founding members of the svodoba party Andriy Parubiy helped found the social national party of Ukraine.

These guys are in charge of the army, police, justice and secret police. Their behaviour in Western Ukraine is frightening especially if you are a Russian speaker. It takes a special form of fascist to make Putin look good. I can't blame him for taking decisive action against this bunch of fascists.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


Yes In similar circumstances the (converse) circumstances you attempt to outline are not the same. The Ukraine contains large amounts of Russian speakers and Russian ethnic people.

The air lifts and European "peace keepers" entering African Countries to protect their people would be comparable.

Edit


I think I'll pass on that

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


Why would I? I'm a democrat and dont support undemocratic partitions as stated above.

The six counties seceded from the rest of the country and petitioned the English King to be readmitted to the UK. That was a deeply undemocratic division of the country. No I dont support an undemocratic militaristic division of my country.


Now you are being silly....again. You keep inventing ridiculous scenarios to make a non point.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


There are too many seems and appears there Harry.

I do not believe that the Crimea should leave Ukraine I don't support secession in my own country or in Serbia (Kosovo) so why should I support it in the Ukraine?

The point is that there in nothing that the Russians did that any other country faced with a similar situation would not have done.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]

Making a statement of fact is not supporting anyone and is particluarly pointless when the fact is not disputed. That is what you did above and why I described it as a non point.

Yes winning an election does not give you a blank canvass it doesnt give the loosers ot that election a blank canvass to overthrow the government either. Harry what is your point?

At no point have I voiced support for any Kleptocracy or taken a political position for contrary reasons. That is in your mind, would you like to link to the quotes you clearly think I made? Again harry you are arguing with something I didnt say, that is decidedly unhealthy.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


The history of the Crimea is common knowledge and a non point similar to advising a thirsty man to drink water.

You refer to an opinion poll, well the last major poll in Ukraine elected someone the Fascists didn't like; someone the EU was happy to deal with and someone who faced street protests after he chose the package that was cheaper and more favourable to the Ukraine.

Its a bit cheeky to bring up the constitution in defence of actions and proposed actions by leaders of a coup which was led by neo nazi parties. Parties with members displaying the "88" symbol and who blame the Jewish/Russians on their own problems, that makes them fascist neo nazis. Feel free to support them if you wish they have no mandate but you know better don't you?

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


why should I, the point is that Russian speakers were being targeted but feel free to make as many non points as you like.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]

"You call it a coup, in the democratic world we call it a revolution of dignity,"
In the real democratic world it's a coup, the man was elected and the losers forced him from power. Of course a man who owes his job to an illegal regime will say what they want to hear and he duly obliged.

I can't get enough of foreign politicians standing in Kiev lecturing the people of Ukraine that outside countries shouldn't interfere, they do it without a hint of irony.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


Yes, there is no excuse for being a nazi. Certainly be as right wing or libertarian as you like but don't discriminate.

Gumishu, the only way to remove a Ukranian president is to have a 2/3 majority of all MPs in a free vote. That vote was not free and the 2/3 majority was not met. The facts are real it doesn't matter how much of a crook he is, he was democratically elected and removed in a coup. His party were the largest indicating that the people threw out the previous corrupt lot, the ones in the Orange revolution who did nothing except make themselves richer but they had to wait for an election. The street protests came only after he rejected the unfair terms offered by Europe, you cannot have financial policy dictated on the street.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


The first thing they did was remove the right to have any minority language as an official language in the same session as the vote to remove Yanukovych. The guy who brought the motion forward also called for Russian ethnic people to be deported he is a right wing nut job one of the "Jews are responsible" crowd. These events were widely reported but you must have missed them.

4 eigner there is no point posting the internet here, I'm well aware of the events described it still doesn't give them a mandate.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


No one is threatening the Ukranian speakers in the Crimea, the fascists in Kiev removed the language rights of the majority there and some called for deportation of Russian speakers.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


Winning an election doesn't give you a blank card to do whatever you want. Any government must bring as many people with it as possible including people who didn't vote for it. Of course if an election or referendum is fought on a particular issue the majority view must prevail.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]

I'm a democrat, if the right wing nut jobs had stood for election and won then there would still be a problem however they could argue legitimacy. But they didn't stand for election they have no mandate.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


That's not what happened, a western backed fascist coup in Kiev installed an illegal, mish mash of thugs in positions of influence. The defence ministry is now under the control of a neo nazi who believes that all Ukraine's problems come from Jewish/Russian bankers. Russia simply moved to defend its ethnic minority. There is no country on earth that wouldn't have behaved in a similar way.

The territorial integrity of the country is for all the people of the country to decide no matter what their language or their ethnicity is the, last time they were asked they chose a government not favourable to NATO.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


The US is not obliged to protect Ukraine in any way. Interfering in Ukrainian internal affairs was hardly keeping your word.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]


Because people are jumping up and down screaming that Russia is interfering in Ukraine, nothing has happened threatening its borders.

News / Is this the first clear and open signal that Poland makes preparations for war with Russia? [163]

Its Palestinian land

There is nothing in any reassurances or guarantees that support a coup; recognising an illegal government that includes fascist anti semites is no guarantee of Ukrainian neutrality.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

Yes religion has been used to destroy things but just discounting it is irrational.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]


That's right, I have no belief at all but I despise those who seem to have picked opposition to a God as some sort of life statement.

My problem here apart from hanging my head at those relying on a wiki, is that there is no real attempt to explain what is supposed to be glaringly obvious. There is almost no link between Christianity and Judaism this phrase was never used until recently and the phrase changes meaning depending upon who is using it.

I'm afraid that it's not good enough to state that it describes the foundations of Christianity because that event marked a break with Judaism in such a fundamental way that the sects have totally different theologies. There was no meeting of minds at any point in the history of Christianity. "It" being obvious and clear is also at odds with those who use the same phrase to mean a European tradition of rule of law,democracy and tolerance (which is false). It may be uncomfortable to ask for meaning but is Zimmy's meaning the same as Sz's?

Which is the correct meaning or can this phrase ever mean anything more than a wiki soundbite?

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]


It means to accelerate the acquisition of other peoples lands.

Biblical Protestant ideas came as a real surprise to me as well the literal truth of scripture is all because they consider the Bible to be the direct word of god, now if God was talking to an other faith that presents a problem. The literal truth cannot be interpreted that's what Catholics do so a link to Judaism must be made. At the extreme end of the spectrum you have all sorts of sects claiming to be the lost tribe of Israel.

News / Don't let Poland become like my country, France. [630]

Yes prejudice could be a reason but it doesn't explain why the phrase was only used recently when prejudice was still very much present.

The Judeo/Christian phrase started to be used when European colonialism was cranking into gear. In the case of the Catholic colonial powers there was no theological or societal problem they just did it, they were saving souls. Protestant powers by their nature needed a justification for colonialism, they were not Catholic and therefore not despotic (freakily enough they though of themselves as democratic)They were on a mission from God to liberate the soul and mind unlike the Catholics who just wanted conversions.

Biblical Protestantism also needed a link to Jewish scripture otherwise there would be a detachment from God. Put these things together and you have a reason to invent this Judeo/Christian idea, It kind of kills two birds with one stone.