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Posts by Paulina  

Joined: 31 Jan 2008 / Female ♀
Warnings: 2 - OQ
Last Post: 2 hrs ago
Threads: 16
Posts: 4,406
From: Poland
Speaks Polish?: yes

Displayed posts: 4422 / page 142 of 148
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Paulina   
20 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

Learn from mother of friend ask her details ask her about her opinion.

My mom isn't from Kielce and she wasn't born yet at that time :)
As I wrote before, mother of my university professor witnessed what happened. He told us during the classes what she saw (of course, he should be teaching us instead but I'm glad he told us about this).

check Yad Vashem stories like this

I watched a documentary not so long ago on TVN about a Jew living in Israel who wanted to get his Polish citizenship back and he said that he was saved by a Polish family somewhere near Jedwabne, I think.

and for God sake START THINKING.

I am :)

Ender, do you live in Poland?
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

scale, premeditation, and soviet state apparatus

But the denial machanism is the same. People don't want to be viewed as monsters.

on the other hand if we assume than some polish elements did it ......

It is known that Poles did this, even if we assume that it was inspired in any way by the communist authorities or the Soviets. It was carried out by inhabitants of Kielce. Even some policemen were arrested for doing nothing to stop the killing.

there was criminal or deranged element demoralised by war

Probably, but I'm afraid not only.

and a few victims.

Eh... 37 innocent people isn't "a few victims".

I don't feel responsible for that at all.

And you don't have to, I think. We (me and you) didn't do this. It happened over half of a century ago.
But we have to face the fact that it happened (and that there was anti-semitism in Poland). I think Jews want us to admit that, and that it was wrong, that killing those people was a horrible crime and it shouldn't happen again. I know I would like to hear that from Russians about the Katyń massacre.
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

I don't think the comparison is right, you should know it yourself...

Why not? Both for Poles and Russians it's difficult to come to terms with what happened and both nations have a communist past (and it was 50 years of propaganda for Poles nad 70 years for Russians).

It may be different in this way that Polish officers were killed by a selected group of people and it was done due to a secret order of Stalin. And the Jews were killed by ordinary Poles, people from the same city :/
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

kiss the ass would be appropriate now...

You know, Ironside, I know a Russian who is a member of Memoriał
( pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoria%C5%82_%28stowarzyszenie%29 )
and dug the bones of Polish officers killed by NKVD, created a blog about Katyń where he puts information and evidence concerning the massacre and is discussing it with Russians and trying to convince them on the internet that NKVD did it. And you know how some Russians call this? Kissing the ass of Poles :)

The same is with one Russian woman from Moscow and I've learned a lot from her (but probably not enough).

I'm not kissing anyone's ass. I just try to explain some things and find out something for myself too.
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

"yes, it was us. We did it and we are deeply ashamed of it that we have done so."

But I didn't kill anyone :P
;)

(I've learned this from Russians ;D)

So, maybe it should be like this: "yes, it was the Poles. Poles did it and we are deeply ashamed of it that are compatriots have done so."

Paulina (just wondering if this version would be acceptable ;))
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

That it was them who committed the Pogrom in Kielce. Besides you and a few others on here, the usual suspects all deny it.

Well, for most normal people in Poland it's pretty obvious that Poles did it, I think. And there is a memorial plaque at 7 Planty Street and a monument nearby (not very impressive though, I must admit :/) uncovered during an aniversary of the pogrom (it was transmitted live by Polish TV) and on this occasion there was a concert in an open-air theater of Jewish kantors from Israel which I attended with my mom (there were a lot of people, whole families with children) so I guess we're getting there slowly...

And admitting that one's history might not be as glorious as one always has thought it was, is the first step to accepting that it was just that, which in turn means coming to terms with it, which in turn means letting the past go and move forward instead of remaining in the past.

I agree.
But after 50 years of hibernation facing the truth is painful and we're probably still in the stage of digesting it all...
It's not pleasant to know that your compatriots killed their neighbours out of some irrational prejudices, so people try to rationalise it or blame it on somebody else or deny it.

And, I think, some Poles are afraid to admit what was done in the past because they think that also present-day Poles will be labeled as some monsters who have anti-semitism in their genes.

I can see sometimes the same fear in some Russians blaming the Nazis for the Katyń massacre. It seems they don't believe that Russians could do such a thing. And probably they don't want to.

I've noticed the same about Turks denying Armenian genocide. They don't want to be viewed by the world as monsters.
Of course, people who deny such things or try to blame it on others choose the wrong way, they just make the world believe they didn't change. But it's sometimes difficult to explain this to them :)

Well, I guess the best way is to educate people in a calm and not agressive manner.
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

One day the Poles will admit

Admit what?

and then the road lies open for acceptance.

What acceptance?
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

Well, it was a period of widespread violence against Jews with of course the culmination in the Kielce incident. Most of them in Eastern Poland, however, there was violence in Western Poland too and in Krakow, which doesn't really lie in Eastern Poland.

Yes, Kraków is in the South and was in the Austrian partition. Well, as I wrote - it's just a theory ;) Maybe Russian partition had some influence, maybe it was because it was the poorest partition and least developed, I don't know.

It's not like, of course, Russians invented anti-semitism and it came from Russia to Poland :)

Paulina, ender is an anti semite, not covertly but openly. He even proclaimed himself to be proud of it. I mean stupid is as stupid does, but to be actually proud of it, takes the biscuit :)

I was just curious if by writing "Kosher Zeitung" he meant "Gazeta Wyborcza" :) Because I gave a link to an article in gazeta.pl and this newspaper is called by people with radical right-wing views (those who are anti-semites at least) as "Jewish", "communist", "anti-Polish" and stuff like that ;)

I said nothing like that, and it didn't.

I meant that there were pogroms before and Jews were killed.

Easy Terran was saying that the Poles were only puppets in Ruskie's hands.

What do you mean by that? A crowd of ordinary people killed the Jews. The police did almost nothing to stop this. Do you have any evidence to prove it wasn't the case?

Important date, important meating (July, Nurymberg... do I have to draw a picture here???)

And what about other pogroms in history of Poland? How would you explain them?
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
Food / Nalewki, anyone? [11]

my grandma still makes orzechówke...

Wow, I never tried that, I think. Does it taste... good? ;)
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
Food / Nalewki, anyone? [11]

Anyone on PF make their own?

No, but my mom did from aronia (chokeberries?) or something like that.
And I bought my dad "Wielka księga nalewek" with recipes as a birthday present so maybe we'll try making some :)
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

For those interested - I found this:
niniwa2.cba.pl/lato_sasiedzkich_pogromow.htm

Next, place - why Kielce not other town left in good state ? Where the independent forces were strongest at the time, where national movement were strong as well ? ?

Well, there's this theory that anti-semitism grew stronger because of the Russian partition and Kielce was in Russia during the partitions. But I don't know if that was really the case... One would have to check in which regions of Poland pogroms were most common, I guess.
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

WHO was Polish ?

Those who did the killing.

Ask why in the pre-war Poland with so many Jews and tension, nothing like that ever happened ?

Um... But it happened...
historia.gazeta.pl/historia/1,99553,6653228,Pogromy_Zydow_w_Polsce.html

Secondly, timing of that event was nicely set to make Poles look like German accomplices in the eyes of the world.

Again, it's just another theory, no proof. The communist authorities claimed that the pogrom was inspired by the anticommunist underground, a provocation done by the government in exile and carried out by the soldiers of Anders wearing false NKVD uniforms LOL Do you buy that? ;D

Next, place - why Kielce not other town left in good state ? Where the independent forces were strongest at the time, where national movement were strong as well ? ?

Maybe in poor regions prejudices thrive more easily? I don't know.

They tought me Katyń was done by Germans.

I had my history classes in the 90's. I think 20 years was enough to discover the truth, as with Katyń.

I would be careful with mongrels like MG (Мабович Ґольда)

I would be careful with calling people mongrels...
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

and that differs from the fact - how?

In the way that you are taught about this at history classes in school? :D
;)

Was she Jewish ?

No, she wasn't.

I-S ( well, I don't know enough about it yet, I have some reasonable and sensible doubts about it)

What doubts? The only doubts could consider whether the pogrom was inspired in some way by the communist authorities or/and the Soviets but that's just a theory and I think it's a wishful thinking and, still, communist authorities were Polish, not from Mars. It was carried out by Poles. I wish it wasn't, but it was...
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

But then again, the Kielce pogrom was originally meant as an example of incident - direct consequences and later reverberations - it was an illustration, unfortunately there were some that didn't understand this and now we're talking the whole godgiven time about Kielce.

Well, I'm used to this ;)
Even for some Poles in other parts of Poland Kielce have this stigma of anti-semitism because of the pogrom in 1946.

I'm sure that you were present at the time of the invent and knew some who did it!

Ironside, it's a historic fact, you know? Do you even live in Poland? o_O
Mother of my university professor was a witness of what happened at that time.
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

myth A: the Jews were commies, a myth that apparently still lives today, remarkably;
(...)
myth D: Jews welcomed the Soviets (especially a popular myth in Eastern Poland - only partly true but represented as whole nations of Jews were welcoming the Russian troops) and:
myth E: the most remarkable myth of all: Jews helped round up Poles for the slaughter.

MareGaea, you're so sure that in those myths there's no grain of truth?
Of course, I'm not saying that all Jews were communists, but considering the discrimination of Jews, they had their reasons to become communists, to welcome the Soviets and take revenge on Poles.

I'm sure communist idealogy could appeal to some Jews as it promoted, at least in theory, equality of all people. Race, nationality - it wasn't important for communists.

It also appealed more to peasants and workers than, for example, nobility.
The Soviets defeated the Nazis who wanted to kill all the Jews so it would be natural to welcome the Soviets. Some Poles welcomed them too, at the beginning.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Jews helped round up Poles for the slaughter". You mean NKVD? Well, I've seen some Russian graphs which show that Jews consisted a large group in NKVD, maybe even a majority (I don't remember) only at the beginning, in the early years of NKVD. Later it consisted mainly of Russians. I don't know any figures but I've also read that it's a myth that Polish SB consisted mainly of Jews.

You prove exactly that it was indeed Poles who performed the Kielce pogrom.

Of course Poles did it. Who else? Martians? ;) It's a proven fact and I don't think you need Easy_Terran to prove you this.

You do know that with this statement you actually admit that Poles parttook in the killing of Jews in Kielce, do you?

I think that, surprisingly, he did that consciously ;)

Well it didn't come from Poland, and i've never heard that stuff in Poland.

The pogrom in Kielce was sparked off by a rumor that a boy was kidnapped by Jews and held in a cellar in order to be used in a ritual killing.

But that's the only case I've heard about as far as this "blood libel" is concerned. I guess it's more of the medieval times. I don't know if it was popular in the 20th century.

No one is trying to convince you of anything, we know better than to try and change the morons mind, pointing out the facts, that’s what that is.

The fact is that pogrom in Kielce was carried out by Poles. There's no doubt about it. I was born and live in Kielce so I know better than any of you LOL
Paulina   
12 Aug 2010
Life / Things we enjoyed as kids in Poland [140]

You Polish kids probably know this Dutch cartoon as well:

Wait a minute, I remember that cartoon! :)

And I remember also some newer cartoon about a vampire duck who ate carrots, I think o_O and had a teleporting castle ;D
Edit:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_Duckula
Paulina   
12 Aug 2010
Life / Things we enjoyed as kids in Poland [140]

but the music is from he-man... my bro had lots of figures from He-Man.

He-man... ;D "Na moc Posępnego Czerepu, mocy przybywaj!!!" My God, I still remember this ;D

"Sąsiedzi" is also Czech :)
Paulina   
12 Aug 2010
Life / Things we enjoyed as kids in Poland [140]

how about these:

Oh I remember that game! I love ir. A wolf have to catch all eggs! Is it this one?!

Wow, I remember this! That was fun to play! :D

I remember all of it, except for water and juice saturator and those Koto compilations...
OMG, so many memories :D

What was the name of that cartoon about a boy who draw everything with a magic pencil???

"Zaczarowany ołówek"! I liked it very much :)

This game reminds me of that cartoon:
maxandthemagicmarker.com

Yes we had, at least when I was a kid I watched it every Sunday afternoon :)

We also had Reksio, although we called it Rexje or Rexio, but that's just a minor difference in spelling.

Wow, I didn't know about that :O
:)

"Krecik" rules! ;)
Paulina   
11 Aug 2010
Life / Things we enjoyed as kids in Poland [140]

I remember a srewdriver also but don't know what it was used for...

It was used to adjust those red-black stripes on the screen so you could play a game xD I'm not sure how it worked ;) Some kind of magic, I guess :P
Paulina   
11 Aug 2010
Life / Things we enjoyed as kids in Poland [140]

My and my brother's first computer! :D
Bought for money from my First Communion ;D

My bro had a cassete player. I remember when we were loading the games and that red-black stripped screen ;) And I was only 3-6 years old.

I was older then ;) We had to adjust the game by turning a little screwdriver in a hole - that was a pain ;O
Paulina   
11 Aug 2010
Life / Things we enjoyed as kids in Poland [140]

Oh i forgot to add to my list Vibovit vanilla taste. It was a vitamin diet supplement for kids. It was a powder for melting in water... but me and my bro like it more... raw. We were eating this powder dry and the whole box at once... it always drove our mom nuts! ;D

All kids did that, including me and my brother :)

Did you have cola in plastic bags for 50 gr in your schools?

I think there was something like that...

"Śnieżka" is an ice cream:
mlodelata.pl/eksponat/976/lody_sniezka
Paulina   
11 Aug 2010
Life / Things we enjoyed as kids in Poland [140]

- Polonia1 cartoons

Watched them too ;)

- kartki z kolorowych notesów (kolekcjonowaliśmy je i się wymienialiśmy, ja chyba miałam ze 100 różnych z Króla Lwa ;)

Collected them too ;)

- obgryzanie ptasiego mleczka (i still do it... shame on me)

I still do it too ;D

- klocki Lego

Loved them :) But that was some time later...

... well it seems I have nothing really polish in my childhood (maybe besides Flips)

You didn't watch "Reksio", "Miś Uszatek", "Bolek i Lolek", etc. when you were a kid?

Pgtx, that's all I found on lody Bambino:
Paulina   
11 Aug 2010
Life / Things we enjoyed as kids in Poland [140]

i think you can still buy it...

You're right! It's called "Przysmak świętokrzyski" o_O Didn't know that! ;D
fotoforum.gazeta.pl/zdjecie/517894,2,11,przysmak-swietokrzyski.html
przysmakswietokrzyski.pl/przysmak-swietokrzyski

But I didn't see it anywhere in stores, I think :/

prazynki also, but i remember 1st potatoes chips... but not in the commies times anymore :)

Hmm, something rings a bell... Tylko nie wiem, w którym kościele ;)

it's still in stores :)

Yeah, but is it the same thing? I have one in my refrigerator, so I'll find out soon ;)))
Paulina   
11 Aug 2010
Life / Things we enjoyed as kids in Poland [140]

yes, sold very cold and so delicious... and this taste! i remember!

I don't think I remember the taste that well anymore :( But I remember I liked it :)

and first potatoes chips, which tasted like heaven!
:D

You mean prażynki? :) Because I think those were the only chips available in the commie times ;D You know they still sell them? :)

And before you could buy prażynki, I think, my mum fried those things when we were little:

:)

i had one of them a couple of days ago.

Oh yes, I still eat them :)

and lody bambino! bambino ice cream!

Yes, I remember them too :)

I remember also those frozen mashed strawberry ice creams ;)

And I loved "serek homogenizowany" ;D
Paulina   
11 Aug 2010
Life / Things we enjoyed as kids in Poland [140]

I remember both "Donald" and "Turbo" and me and my brother collected those short stories ;)
When we were kids there were also those weird orange drinks in transparent bags which you drank with a straw - it was quite a feat to put this straw in the bag ;D

I remember oranżada in glass bottles and "Śnieżka" ice creams: Polish Food from the Socializm Era

And I loved to eat (or rather lick) "Vibovit" instead of drinking it ;D

Some time later, I think in the 90's there were also those candies and we ate a lot of them:
Paulina   
9 Aug 2010
Love / Possibility of Marriage with a Polish lady [96]

Shekofte, I think there are some differences still between Poland and the West in this respect, at least in the more traditional regions of Poland, but it's changing with younger generations. You can find virgins even at your age (though it's rather rare, probably, and they won't brag about this :)), some students over 20 also, and definitely there are girls who are over 15 and still virgins. But none of them will brag about this, because it's nothing to be proud of anymore (on the contrary even). Unless they are religious and surrounded by religious friends - then they can be more open about it.

I think girls who stay virgins for long are either shy or have strong moral principles. And if it is a matter of principles than in Poland it often means a girl is Catholic. And if she's Catholic and you're a Muslim there might a problem if you're interested in marriage...

There are Polish women who convert to Islam but it's very rare, I think.
As Amathyst already wrote sex before marriage is considered as sin by the Catholic Church but people in Poland who aren't very very religious usually don't care about this ;)

As for Iranians - Poles probably think the same about them as they think about Muslims in general - that they are religious, very traditional, have strict moral rules and that women have lower position in their society than men. So many women may be put off by this, as you could hear stories sometimes on TV about Polish women marrying a Muslim and ending up in a Muslim country closed in his home with her passport taken by her husband and with no rights.

As for your picture - you look like a handsome man, so no problem there, I guess.
As for the girl - she looks pretty young. How old is she?
You could ask her some questions about Poland and Polish culture instead of searching on internet forums. You would have a reason to chat with her and know her better (and find out whether she's religious or not, for example) and I'm sure she'd be pleased that you're interested in her country and culture.

Btw, you're not interested in Iranian women? I'm sure there are many beautiful girls in Iran too :) But it's probably more difficult to date or flirt with a girl in your country? Do you have to be accompanied by a chaperon when meating a girl you like?
Paulina   
28 Jul 2010
History / Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers [117]

You didn't really expect a strong Germany to just accept the theft of Danzig, didn't you?

Wait a minute... You wrote it wasn't really about Danzig.

Poland didn't even exist till the Treaty of Versailles shuffled borders and gave you your country.

Poland existed since 1918 till 1939 and in those 20 years of independence there was no war with Third Reich and Poland and Third Reich were not enemies.

To save their country and millions of people??? Just a guess...

And how would they know that? Poland was at some time at war with bolshevik Russia and didn't lose independence. How could they know that consequences would be so dreadful?

I'm the only one having the patience to answer some of your really inane...erm..uninformed questions.

OK, but did you read those books you mentioned?

Well, there wasn't no declaration from the Germans either...didn't stop the polish army from fighting!

But they didn't fight against the Red Army as far as it was possible. So I guess they picked a side to some point.

You are bringing neither new arguments nor facts to the discussion.
Your whole argumentation reminds me about elementary school history...only superficial facts clad in some white washing and done with it.

I don't know much, that's true. But you don't have to discuss anything with me, I'm not forcing you ;)

History is a different beast and rarely only black and white..

The Nazis were pretty black to me...
Paulina   
28 Jul 2010
History / Warsaw Uprising - The Forgotten Soldiers [117]

Yeah...their quite pathetic history seems to hint at that...

:)
I can see that German attitude towards Polish history is very similar to the attitude of Russians.
Probably that's why Poles "like" you both so much...

He wanted Poland to scratch from the enemy-list in the build up to the war with Russia, maybe even as peaceful concentration area for his armies.

There was no war between Third Reich and Poland before 1939. So they weren't really enemies. And no sane government would let Hiler's army into their country willingly without being forced into this, only with no other choice. So why on Earth Poland would do that at that time?

Why not? Because their relationships had been so peacy and friendly before???

Third Reich and Soviet Union were ideological enemies so who would've thought that they would get together?

Well...that's history research for you...these questions are still hotly discussed...read some books.

Did you?

Well, in short Poland did go to war about one city, a fully german city at that.

No, Poland was defending itself. It's not "going to war". There wasn't even a war decleration on the part of Third Reich :/

Agreed. But no other country was in the same situation,

And so it is so easy for you to say what they were supposed to do?

in the middle between Stalin and Hitler, the main battle field, so their failings hadn't the same disastreous consequences!

That's why I don't think there was much what they could do. It would probably end bad anyway. Maybe not as bad as when not allying with any of them, but the difference wouldn't be that big, I think. In the moral sense they did the right thing.

Besides, Polish troops had orders not to fight against the Red Army. There was no declaration of war.

Erm...history is surely not your strong suit.

Indeed :) But maybe I know, and I would just like you to write what you think?

I'm not your teacher, please read up such stuff before you take part in history discussions!

You can learn some from discussions too :)