pavdel
3 Nov 2011
News / Poles start to feel arrogant and superior to Southern Europeans [182]
Let me set things clear. I am Greek, living with a Polish gf in Athens, thinking maybe moving to Poland in the close future. I ll try to be 100% objective.
The attitude of Polish people towards Greeks at least has changed and that's obvious by newspapers and I can refer you to 2 electronic sources, that by Polish parts I would like to comment on:
1) Facebook group : Nie Chce Grecji w Polsce
2) Blog: greekcoffee.blox.pl
Concerning who is lazy and who is not, checking some Eurostat numbers will illuminate you:
1) Greek private employees work in papers 40hrs per week as in Poland, but according to statistics an average Greek works 2.118 hrs per year, while a German 1.500 and a Spaniard 1.800. The public sector in Poland works 9-16 and in Greece 8-15 so just the same. Otherwise your bureaucracy is much more unflexible while registering (not starting) a bussiness in Poland takes 36 days while in Greece takes 4. Taking a work permit in Poland (pobity card takes 2-3 months) here IKA registration for EU citizens takes 1 day.
2) Economy-Development. Its true Poland last 4 years runs with an average 4-4,5% while Greece downgrades to - 5,5%. Still with these rates the average Greek GDP is 22.000 Euro ( 2010) while the average Polish 14.000 Euro. So still to counterbalance the income, with simplistic mathematic calculations and with todays data it need 9-10 years. The Greek income taxation is escalating from 0 -40% while in Poland starts from 30% and the max is 40%. In practice somebody that earns gross 1.500euro in Greece net pays 2.500 euro income and insurance tax while in Poland 6.000 on a year basis. Let me remind you that in Poland you have 13 salaries yearly and Greece has 14.
Its true that Poland has a high rate of foreign investment. Greece doesnt so much. But Internationalisation always works both ways. I mean its good to have foreign investment but also to have international presence. In rich Poland, poor Greece runs at the moment 2.500 enterprises in very very strategic sectors
FMCG: Coca Cola ( 3 epsilon in mother company), Frigoglass, Vivartia, Pyramis, Chipita.
IT-Telecom: Velti, Mellon group, Germanos (playmobile)
Banking: Postbank
Gaming: just a game, Intralot (totolotek)
Maritime: over 100 companies of Greek interest operate in Polish ports.
Tell me how many Polish companies operate in Greece ( not skleps and bakeries)? In Italy? In Spain?
About Greeks in Poland: The Greeks that live in Poland belong to 3 categories
1) The ancestors of the fugitives of the Greek civil war that fled there in 40's
2) Professionals that their company transmitted them there
3) Students, erasmus or people who migrate for other personal reasons (friends, gf's).
There are not more than 3-4 thousands of greeks in poland while in Greece the last research shows that 60.000-70.000 Poles live.
As an economist I will give you my explanation. The countries acceded the EU in 2004, entered with hard conditionality so they had really to be attentive to their fiscal and financial policy. That's why Poland presents a low deficit and a low external debt. Countries of S. Europe are human-centered, they dont care so much on fiscal policy than social policy. The question is in what kind of country you want to live?
Because lets face one globally accepted fact about economics: There are 3 factors of development: Earth, capital, labor. I would add technology as well. Poland is based in labor. The foreign investment comes because of low working labor and flexible working environment (low rents, low taxation). At the same time, the states strict fiscal policy applies high taxes. That's how development and fiscal stability is achieved.
And how is this reflected to average Polish person's life? Did you see yr level of living improving? Yr buying force growing? Are the prices growing higher that yr salaries? You ll see what will happen if you enter Eurozone...
So guys, everybody is proud or not proud on his country about some things. You are proud of you development and compliance to mother - EU. Being arrogant to the bad children of her, wont make you "more Royal than the King himself".
Let me set things clear. I am Greek, living with a Polish gf in Athens, thinking maybe moving to Poland in the close future. I ll try to be 100% objective.
The attitude of Polish people towards Greeks at least has changed and that's obvious by newspapers and I can refer you to 2 electronic sources, that by Polish parts I would like to comment on:
1) Facebook group : Nie Chce Grecji w Polsce
2) Blog: greekcoffee.blox.pl
Concerning who is lazy and who is not, checking some Eurostat numbers will illuminate you:
1) Greek private employees work in papers 40hrs per week as in Poland, but according to statistics an average Greek works 2.118 hrs per year, while a German 1.500 and a Spaniard 1.800. The public sector in Poland works 9-16 and in Greece 8-15 so just the same. Otherwise your bureaucracy is much more unflexible while registering (not starting) a bussiness in Poland takes 36 days while in Greece takes 4. Taking a work permit in Poland (pobity card takes 2-3 months) here IKA registration for EU citizens takes 1 day.
2) Economy-Development. Its true Poland last 4 years runs with an average 4-4,5% while Greece downgrades to - 5,5%. Still with these rates the average Greek GDP is 22.000 Euro ( 2010) while the average Polish 14.000 Euro. So still to counterbalance the income, with simplistic mathematic calculations and with todays data it need 9-10 years. The Greek income taxation is escalating from 0 -40% while in Poland starts from 30% and the max is 40%. In practice somebody that earns gross 1.500euro in Greece net pays 2.500 euro income and insurance tax while in Poland 6.000 on a year basis. Let me remind you that in Poland you have 13 salaries yearly and Greece has 14.
Its true that Poland has a high rate of foreign investment. Greece doesnt so much. But Internationalisation always works both ways. I mean its good to have foreign investment but also to have international presence. In rich Poland, poor Greece runs at the moment 2.500 enterprises in very very strategic sectors
FMCG: Coca Cola ( 3 epsilon in mother company), Frigoglass, Vivartia, Pyramis, Chipita.
IT-Telecom: Velti, Mellon group, Germanos (playmobile)
Banking: Postbank
Gaming: just a game, Intralot (totolotek)
Maritime: over 100 companies of Greek interest operate in Polish ports.
Tell me how many Polish companies operate in Greece ( not skleps and bakeries)? In Italy? In Spain?
About Greeks in Poland: The Greeks that live in Poland belong to 3 categories
1) The ancestors of the fugitives of the Greek civil war that fled there in 40's
2) Professionals that their company transmitted them there
3) Students, erasmus or people who migrate for other personal reasons (friends, gf's).
There are not more than 3-4 thousands of greeks in poland while in Greece the last research shows that 60.000-70.000 Poles live.
As an economist I will give you my explanation. The countries acceded the EU in 2004, entered with hard conditionality so they had really to be attentive to their fiscal and financial policy. That's why Poland presents a low deficit and a low external debt. Countries of S. Europe are human-centered, they dont care so much on fiscal policy than social policy. The question is in what kind of country you want to live?
Because lets face one globally accepted fact about economics: There are 3 factors of development: Earth, capital, labor. I would add technology as well. Poland is based in labor. The foreign investment comes because of low working labor and flexible working environment (low rents, low taxation). At the same time, the states strict fiscal policy applies high taxes. That's how development and fiscal stability is achieved.
And how is this reflected to average Polish person's life? Did you see yr level of living improving? Yr buying force growing? Are the prices growing higher that yr salaries? You ll see what will happen if you enter Eurozone...
So guys, everybody is proud or not proud on his country about some things. You are proud of you development and compliance to mother - EU. Being arrogant to the bad children of her, wont make you "more Royal than the King himself".